Obama's Church and ex-paster

stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Veeraj87
http:///forum/post/2526655
You my friend are from tx so ur prolly all GUNgho about shooting people up and not giving a crap that were killing people.
lol, got to love the prejudice simply because I'm from texas.
Actually I strongly believe in the sanctity of life. I believe we should protect the innocent and the helpless inside us.(how many baby's were aborted last year) I believe we are to take care of our neighbors (such as the Kurds remember the ones Sadaam gassed, or the poor folks murdered and killed then tossed in mass graves by him). But if for some stupid reason my neighbor gets this idea that he doesn't like me and tries to blow me up or shoot me with an AK, well I'll do what every sane person will do act to preserve myself.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2527552
lol, got to love the prejudice simply because I'm from texas.
Actually I strongly believe in the sanctity of life. I believe we should protect the innocent and the helpless inside us.(how many baby's were aborted last year) I believe we are to take care of our neighbors (such as the Kurds remember the ones Sadaam gassed, or the poor folks murdered and killed then tossed in mass graves by him). But if for some stupid reason my neighbor gets this idea that he doesn't like me and tries to blow me up or shoot me with an AK, well I'll do what every sane person will do act to preserve myself.

Maybe you're just one of those "Typical White People" Obama talked about. "What do you mean your not white?" How can you be not white and a non Obama supports? Are you an uncle tom or what
(Refer to the post about the Obama supporters attacking black Super delegates supporting Clinton)
Typical __________People. Kinda and odd term for mr. uniter to use
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2526770
Yeah, Veera! Geez, you make me want to bang my head on a brick wall! It's not our fault they are killing each other. Just because their gubermint is destabilized and their army got disbanded.It's not our fault some rouge CIA guys are giving money and guns to neighborhood militias so they can kill each other. It's not our fault that these 3 groups that have hated each other forever can't join hands, kiss n make up. Just because the whole world said it was going to be a quagmire, is it our fault it is? Geez, we have nothing to do with these terrible, bad people killing each other with guns we gave them.
Veera, you should watch Faux news so you will see how much good stuff is going on over there. They voted!
But we can still never leave for a hundred years
Cause it was so much better when Saddam was the one killing people...
Seriously Suzy, you have no issue with someone posting links and trying to imply the USA is killing hundreds of thousands of civilians?
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2526803
They had food, water and homes. Was it what WE think they wanted? Maybe not, but was our invasion wanted? We are trying to tell them they should be like us, have elections and the like. Impose our way of life on them.
Tibet actually wants our help. By your reasoning, we should invade China.
No, actually they didn't... Saddam starved, bombed, gassed, and tortured and killed at will. Again, look at his trial and what he was found guilty of.
You're right of course. we are trying to impose "freedom" and "self government" on people. I bet, of course, most reasonable people would choose that over being ruled by a sadistic dictator.
 
suzy

suzy

Member
There is no good way out of this quagmire. We can stay and continue to bleed our children, and our millions. We can leave and they will have to find a way to work it out. Either way, they have to find a way to live together. We need to look for a way out eventually. Or do we really have to stay there for a hundred years?
They will make no attempt to find a way to live together as long as we keep being the army and the police for them.
Why should they spent their own money on police when they can just use us?
 
suzy

suzy

Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2528436
No, actually they didn't... Saddam starved, bombed, gassed, and tortured and killed at will. Again, look at his trial and what he was found guilty of.
You're right of course. we are trying to impose "freedom" and "self government" on people. I bet, of course, most reasonable people would choose that over being ruled by a sadistic dictator.
Then, why didn't they? If they wanted our way of life, why didn't they revolt and have a revolution like we did? We spilt our own blood to make what we wanted.
If they wanted to choose to be a democracy instead of tribal leaders, militias and the like before Saddam, why didn't they?
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2527526
I thought it was 6 million... not that it makes it less horrible..
how about the 500,000+ in Africa?
Rylan, I've posted repeatedly the difficulty with Africa. You yourself admitted there is an issue.
I'll remind you again; Is the world ready to see US service men and women fighting and killing 12 year old militia members? How do you think the world propganda machine would use photos of dead children with US soldiers in the background?
Africa needs to be addressed. Unfortunately, much as with Mexico, the problem is largely internal and the result of corrupt local governments.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2528429
Seriously, Journey, do you really feel that we have no culpability in their blight?
I do. That's why I think we need to stay until they've got it fixed.
Their "Blight", however, is not as bad as it was under Saddam; Nor is it not improving.
That's not really the issue however. I was simply correcting a poster who inaccurately tried to blame civilian deaths on our soliders when the very articles he posted said who was actually responsible.
The War in Iraq has evolved over the past five years. Baghdad is now the Front Line on the War on Terror. Al Qaeda, Iran, radical islamists, etc. are trying to overthrow the elected government; and they are losing.
 
suzy

suzy

Member

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2528451
Is the world ready to see US service men and women fighting and killing 12 year old militia members? How do you think the world propganda machine would use photos of dead children with US soldiers in the background?
the problem is largely internal and the result of corrupt local governments.
Insert Iraq into your quote. You've just described our war.
 
suzy

suzy

Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2528462
I do. That's why I think we need to stay until they've got it fixed.
Their "Blight", however, is not as bad as it was under Saddam; Nor is it not improving.
That's not really the issue however. I was simply correcting a poster who inaccurately tried to blame civilian deaths on our soliders when the very articles he posted said who was actually responsible.
The War in Iraq has evolved over the past five years. Baghdad is now the Front Line on the War on Terror. Al Qaeda, Iran, radical islamists, etc. are trying to overthrow the elected government; and they are losing.
Bs. We are to blame. We give money to militia leaders, we give guns. We destabilized their government, we disbanded their army. AQ is everywhere, recruiting new members every day. We are less safe now than we ever were.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2528437
There is no good way out of this quagmire. We can stay and continue to bleed our children, and our millions. We can leave and they will have to find a way to work it out. Either way, they have to find a way to live together. We need to look for a way out eventually. Or do we really have to stay there for a hundred years?
They will make no attempt to find a way to live together as long as we keep being the army and the police for them.
Why should they spent their own money on police when they can just use us?
You keep trying to make the difficulties in Iraq simply a civil issue. They are not. Al Qaeda and Iran are trying to stir up a Civil War.
Have you read how many Iraqi police have been killed? Don't try to say they aren't trying. Their casualty numbers are several times our own.
As I've posted, numerous times (and provided links backing it up), Democracy is flourishing in many parts of Iraq already.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2528445
Then, why didn't they? If they wanted our way of life, why didn't they revolt and have a revolution like we did? We spilt our own blood to make what we wanted.
If they wanted to choose to be a democracy instead of tribal leaders, militias and the like before Saddam, why didn't they?
Because sadly the Iraqi's know history better than most Americans it seems.
In 92 the Kurds tried to revolt. Saddam's tanks and helicopters decimated them.
History is full of evil dictators and oppressed people. Do you think Cubans love Castro? How about the Russians under Lenin and Stalin? Cambodians under Pol Pot?
By your reasoning, none of these people deserve freedom because they didn't have the strength to overthrow regimes that slaughtered millions of their own countrymen.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2528464
Insert Iraq into your quote. You've just described our war.
No, though that's the new line you are now trying to argue. I've posted, repeatedly, statistics and numbers coming out of Iraq (with sources to back up my facts) showing how sectarian violence is diminishing.
Is your argument that Al Qaeda is not in Iraq?
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2528469
You keep trying to make the difficulties in Iraq simply a civil issue. They are not. Al Qaeda and Iran are trying to stir up a Civil War.
Have you read how many Iraqi police have been killed? Don't try to say they aren't trying. Their casualty numbers are several times our own.
As I've posted, numerous times (and provided links backing it up), Democracy is flourishing in many parts of Iraq already.
Not to mention that in some areas of Iraq AQ is almost non-existant. That diary they found in Anbar from a "senior Al Queda official states his number of 600 are down to 20. Because they are deserting him. The we are making Al Queda grow argument doesnt' hold any water.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member

Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2528466
Bs. We are to blame. We give money to militia leaders, we give guns. We destabilized their government, we disbanded their army. AQ is everywhere, recruiting new members every day. We are less safe now than we ever were.
Ok, which is it? Is the violence in Iraq due to Al Qaeda or is it an "internal conflict due to a corrupt government"? In 2 posts you've just totally changed your position it appears.
We didn't "destablize" their government; We overthrew a sadistic dictator and allowed them to actually form a government.
Al Qaeda is recruiting new members every day? Shhh... don't tell them that. We've fooled them into thinking the War in Iraq is not going well for them:
Al-Qaeda leaders admit: 'We are in crisis. There is panic and fear'
"Al-Qaeda in Iraq faces an “extraordinary crisis”. Last year's mass defection of ordinary Sunnis from al-Qaeda to the US military “created panic, fear and the unwillingness to fight”. The terrorist group's security structure suffered “total collapse”. These are the words not of al-Qaeda's enemies but of one of its own leaders in Anbar province — once the group's stronghold. They were set down last summer in a 39-page letter seized during a US raid on an al-Qaeda base near Samarra in November.... He goes on to describe how his force of 600 shrank to fewer than 20." http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3346386.ece
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2528437
There is no good way out of this quagmire. We can stay and continue to bleed our children, and our millions. We can leave and they will have to find a way to work it out. Either way, they have to find a way to live together. We need to look for a way out eventually. Or do we really have to stay there for a hundred years?
They will make no attempt to find a way to live together as long as we keep being the army and the police for them.
Why should they spent their own money on police when they can just use us?
We should stay as long as they are making progress which they are. They are working on an election plan now. I have no problem cracking the whip but threatening to pull out isn't the way to do it. My kid is in a sorta safe spot, not really in the rear with the gear but safer than a lot of the guys. Even so I'd like to have him back here and know he isn't going back. But I also don't want to leave as long as there is a chance this will work. According to him nearly to a man/woman thats how those he is serving with feel. My kid is really non political so he doesn't get into the partisan crap. He just says he wishes the Iraqis would move their butts so they can come home.
 
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