Officially joined the hobby today!!!

gcgrad

Member
Thanks for the tip Corey. I've read to keep a tub specified for clean water and one for waste water. I've also read when mixing to keep the powerhead on the bottom of the tub to help create the homogeneous mixture for the first 22 hours and to place the powerhead at the top to promote gas exchange for the last 2 hours. Not sure if that is commonly practiced but it seems like a good technique.
 

gcgrad

Member
Well, after some research I have decided to go with the Instant Ocean Reef Crystals. I also like the Seaflor Special Grade Reef Sand, someone has suggested that to me. Not sure which refractometer to get but one around $35 of any reputable brand will suffice. Also looking into to getting a Ranco Temp Controller.
 

gcgrad

Member
Update everyone! The baffle installment into the sump/fuge began today. I will post pictures once it is done. Question about my BRS reef saver rock. This rock is clean as can be and is mined, so it has never had life on it. It has some dust on it but that's about it. I don't have my stand built or my DT for that matter. However, I would like to have this rock ready to go into the tank once everything is setup. So could I start the cycling process in my 20 gallon QT? Then once the stand and plumbing for the sump and DT is all ready, simply add the cycled rock to the DT? I'm just trying to make the most of my time, I am under the impression that the rock doesn't need to be cured seeing as how it has never had any life on it. So if I could start the cycle now while I'm still getting the build together I could save some time so that when the DT is up and ready for water and rock, I could transfer the cycled rock into my DT and it could be ready for life to be added. Please let me know your thoughts and suggestions!!!
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by gcgrad http:///forum/thread/383014/officially-joined-the-hobby-today/120#post_3357826
Update everyone! The baffle installment into the sump/fuge began today. I will post pictures once it is done. Question about my BRS reef saver rock. This rock is clean as can be and is mined, so it has never had life on it. It has some dust on it but that's about it. I don't have my stand built or my DT for that matter. However, I would like to have this rock ready to go into the tank once everything is setup. So could I start the cycling process in my 20 gallon QT? Then once the stand and plumbing for the sump and DT is all ready, simply add the cycled rock to the DT? I'm just trying to make the most of my time, I am under the impression that the rock doesn't need to be cured seeing as how it has never had any life on it. So if I could start the cycle now while I'm still getting the build together I could save some time so that when the DT is up and ready for water and rock, I could transfer the cycled rock into my DT and it could be ready for life to be added. Please let me know your thoughts and suggestions!!!

You don't need to cycle rock that was never live rock, you can seed it ahead of time to be ahead of the game.
The only concern is to make sure you have the right kind of base rock. You know, no trace metals and that kind of thing. You can rinse it and put it right in the tank. It will give good bacteria something to attach to and grow on.
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Love the paint job on the tank I am sure you will to once all is said and done and also love the vette. One thing you might want to consider is PVC tables for your rock. You buy a length of ½ inch pvc and some 90s with a clean out fittings (they look like Ys with the straight piece at a 90) they are for the corners of the tables. you make the height of the table just under the height of your sand you can set them in and play around with your rock setup then when you are happy you pore you sand around the bottom it saves you placing your rock on the bottom of the tank for stability. You do not lose any height of your rock and get good advection through the total diameter of your rock
here is a pic of the fittings you use for the corners
 

gcgrad

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/383014/officially-joined-the-hobby-today/120#post_3357828
Quote:
Originally Posted by gcgrad http:///forum/thread/383014/officially-joined-the-hobby-today/120#post_3357826
Update everyone! The baffle installment into the sump/fuge began today. I will post pictures once it is done. Question about my BRS reef saver rock. This rock is clean as can be and is mined, so it has never had life on it. It has some dust on it but that's about it. I don't have my stand built or my DT for that matter. However, I would like to have this rock ready to go into the tank once everything is setup. So could I start the cycling process in my 20 gallon QT? Then once the stand and plumbing for the sump and DT is all ready, simply add the cycled rock to the DT? I'm just trying to make the most of my time, I am under the impression that the rock doesn't need to be cured seeing as how it has never had any life on it. So if I could start the cycle now while I'm still getting the build together I could save some time so that when the DT is up and ready for water and rock, I could transfer the cycled rock into my DT and it could be ready for life to be added. Please let me know your thoughts and suggestions!!!

You don't need to cycle rock that was never live rock, you can seed it ahead of time to be ahead of the game.
The only concern is to make sure you have the right kind of base rock. You know, no trace metals and that kind of thing. You can rinse it and put it right in the tank. It will give good bacteria something to attach to and grow on.
Ok cool!I will give it a good wash in RO/DI water to get the dust off it and then add it to my QT. When I find something to seed it with I can brush it off and use a powerhead to disperse the particles over the rocks. Not sure what I will seed it with, I chose dry rock in the first place so I wouldn't introduce unwanted pests into the tank which can occur with live rock from what I understand. Any suggestions on something safe to see with? And do I need to use filtration when I'm trying to spread the beneficial bacteria amongst the rocks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/thread/383014/officially-joined-the-hobby-today/120#post_3357833
Love the paint job on the tank I am sure you will to once all is said and done and also love the vette. One thing you might want to consider is PVC tables for your rock. You buy a length of ½ inch pvc and some 90s with a clean out fittings (they look like Ys with the straight piece at a 90) they are for the corners of the tables. you make the height of the table just under the height of your sand you can set them in and play around with your rock setup then when you are happy you pore you sand around the bottom it saves you placing your rock on the bottom of the tank for stability. You do not lose any height of your rock and get good advection through the total diameter of your rock
here is a pic of the fittings you use for the corners
Thanks Joe! I like how the paint turned out. And the vette is also a telophone. My dad is a huge vette fanatic. Do they have the 1/2 inch length of pvc to use for the table at Lowes? I've read that your supposed to drill holes in the sides of the fittings as well to prevent dead spots from forming, which is another reason to sit the rocks on the pvc. Also, with this kind of setup how deep of a sand bed are you looking at and how is this beneficial to the sand bed. I have read that you either want a deep sand bed 4-6" or a shallow one 1-2" but nothing in between. Although I read so much sometimes where someone says this but others do it this way but he/she insists that this is the proper way then they argue and its enough to make your head spin. Sometimes you end up wishing you hadn't started reading the thread in the first place.
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Ok the depth of the sand bed it up to you, we can go around and around on it. I would go with 2 inch in your tank. And deeper in your refuge. You can get the PVC at Lowes so if you go with a 2 inch sand bed you make the height of the tables 1 ¾ inch. Your rock then only sits ¼ inch in the sand instead of 2 inches. More rock exposed the better you are. As far as drilling the fittings, you can I never have
IMO the majority of your dinitrification in your DT will take place in your sand bed and not in your live rock so the more area of sand bed the better that’s why I like to elevate the rock
 

acrylic51

Active Member
Looks good Dean....As suggest sand bed is debatable as far as depth.....I would argue a bit, that a sand bed is even beneficial or needed in the DT, more an aesthetic than anything. I only state this mere fact that people have been running bare bottom (BB) for years with no issues with denitrification or anything else. I would pin my rock with fiberglass rod vs using PVC tables....JMO.
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/383014/officially-joined-the-hobby-today/120#post_3358060
Looks good Dean....As suggest sand bed is debatable as far as depth.....I would argue a bit, that a sand bed is even beneficial or needed in the DT, more an aesthetic than anything. I only state this mere fact that people have been running bare bottom (BB) for years with no issues with denitrification or anything else. I would pin my rock with fiberglass rod vs using PVC tables....JMO.
I would like to hear your point of view as to substrate even being beneficial to a DT.
Let’s assume he is not going with a refuge with a deep sand bed or a ATS how would he deal with nitrates. What if he decides to go with corals that require being places on soft sand?
Would not the use of a sand bed in the DT act as a refuge for micro- organism’s worms and crustaceans living in the sand which would facilitate the removal of detritus.
When we use a aragonite or other calcium carbonate sand do they not dissolve and add calcium and carbonate to the water which is beneficial to our systems.
Pining rock and using tables are two completely different things used for two completely different reasons . If you pinned three rocks together and placed them in your tank without setting them on a table you would still have to place them on the bare bottom of your tank to prevent undermining. You also loose area of the rock being exposed
 

acrylic51

Active Member
FloridaJoe I won't even enter a debate over sand in a DT vs in a fuge whatever.....It's a very debatable topic, and no clear concise answer, but the sand does very little buffering in the system, and it has been proven over and over again that sand in a system either in the DT or remotely isn't needed. Seems awful funny that tons and tons of people run BB tanks SPS dominated setups with no sand and no fuge, and have no issues with parameters. Again a lot depends on the methods of filtration employed.
 

gcgrad

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/383014/officially-joined-the-hobby-today/120#post_3357902
Ok the depth of the sand bed it up to you, we can go around and around on it. I would go with 2 inch in your tank. And deeper in your refuge. You can get the PVC at Lowes so if you go with a 2 inch sand bed you make the height of the tables 1 ¾ inch. Your rock then only sits ¼ inch in the sand instead of 2 inches. More rock exposed the better you are. As far as drilling the fittings, you can I never have
IMO the majority of your dinitrification in your DT will take place in your sand bed and not in your live rock so the more area of sand bed the better that’s why I like to elevate the rock
I like the idea Joe. I'm def gonna use the PVC fittings and the PVC table to set the rocks on. I will do them at 1 3/4 inches and won't bother drilling them. I'm using dry rock and dry sand, will obtain a cup of live sand to seed if someone is willing to lend me a cup. I figure this way it will take around 2 months before the beneficial bacteria flourishes and I can start adding livestock. What type of sand would you suggest?
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
If you're going to make a pvc table you can probably just make it with regular 90 elbows if you use 1" pipe. 1" pipe is approx. 1-3/8" thick total. Odds are you won't find those "side outlet 90's" at lowes or home depot anyway. When I used them for another project I had to order them online. Also...what would you use as the actual table top? You could use eggcrate as the top itself and just use the pvc as a frame and ziptie the crate to the pvc frame which should give you approx 1-3/4" height. I agree that a 2" sandbed in the display is plenty and would utilize a deeper sand bed in the fuge. The only real problems or issue with using pvc in your tank is that sand can and does get moved around by livestock and will sometimes expose the pvc. It's usually not a big deal you can always cover it back up.
I like the premium keys sand or the stuff found around the bahamas (personal taste).
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
When I build my tables and plenum I was able to get all of the pvc fittings side outs included at home depot.
I do not like to put a “top” on the tables I like to wedge the rock in the perimeter of the table for added stability you can also orient the rock anyway you like this way
As far as the sand goes you want calcium carbonate (AKA "aragonite) sand. Aragamax sand is the brand name of the sand most used by people in my club
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/383014/officially-joined-the-hobby-today/120#post_3358255
When I build my tables and plenum I was able to get all of the pvc fittings side outs included at home depot.
I do not like to put a “top” on the tables I like to wedge the rock in the perimeter of the table for added stability you can also orient the rock anyway you like this way
As far as the sand goes you want calcium carbonate (AKA "aragonite) sand. Aragamax sand is the brand name of the sand most used by people in my club
Hmmm...perhaps I don't understand you're idea of a table, I think I see what you're saying though. Our home improvement stores down here suck when it comes to plumbing parts, they pretty much carry just the basics. Lots of folks like the aragonite sand. I know it has the added benefit of leaching trace elements into the tank which is benificial for reefs. I think you can get the same thing with a good salt mix too though, can't you? I like the finer stuff for the most part but I think when I get my other tanks going I'll use the aragonite substrate for a hard coral tank.
I'm wondering if one cup is going to be enough to help kick off the seeding of the tank. It may take quite a bit longer than 2 months before you really get much in the way of beneficial fauna. I'd try to go with at least 50/50 live and non live if you can, Dean.
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Cory as you can see I am about as good an artist as I am a saltwater hobbyist. But I think you can see what I mean. When I am setting up a tank for someone we establish the sand bed hight the then cut the vertical legs accordingly we look at the rocks and adjust the horizontal measurements so the rock is cradled by them we mock up the whole inside of the tank gluing or pinning any rocks that will be stacked. Speaking of gluing I don’t glue the tables together it allows for changing of the dimensions at any time down the road
As for seeding his sand I think he is talking about biological filtration ( the nitrogen cycle ) so as long as he has some aerobic bacteria present from the cup of live sand and he continues to ghost feed the colony should grow rapidly
 

gcgrad

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/383014/officially-joined-the-hobby-today/120#post_3358338
Cory as you can see I am about as good an artist as I am a saltwater hobbyist. But I think you can see what I mean. When I am setting up a tank for someone we establish the sand bed hight the then cut the vertical legs accordingly we look at the rocks and adjust the horizontal measurements so the rock is cradled by them we mock up the whole inside of the tank gluing or pinning any rocks that will be stacked. Speaking of gluing I don’t glue the tables together it allows for changing of the dimensions at any time down the road
As for seeding his sand I think he is talking about biological filtration ( the nitrogen cycle ) so as long as he has some aerobic bacteria present from the cup of live sand and he continues to ghost feed the colony should grow rapidly
I'm using those pvc fittings you posted an image of as the legs right Joe? And never heard the reference "ghost feeding" before!
 

gcgrad

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/383014/officially-joined-the-hobby-today/120#post_3358290
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/thread/383014/officially-joined-the-hobby-today/120#post_3358255
When I build my tables and plenum I was able to get all of the pvc fittings side outs included at home depot.
I do not like to put a “top” on the tables I like to wedge the rock in the perimeter of the table for added stability you can also orient the rock anyway you like this way
As far as the sand goes you want calcium carbonate (AKA "aragonite) sand. Aragamax sand is the brand name of the sand most used by people in my club
Hmmm...perhaps I don't understand you're idea of a table, I think I see what you're saying though. Our home improvement stores down here suck when it comes to plumbing parts, they pretty much carry just the basics. Lots of folks like the aragonite sand. I know it has the added benefit of leaching trace elements into the tank which is benificial for reefs. I think you can get the same thing with a good salt mix too though, can't you? I like the finer stuff for the most part but I think when I get my other tanks going I'll use the aragonite substrate for a hard coral tank.
I'm wondering if one cup is going to be enough to help kick off the seeding of the tank. It may take quite a bit longer than 2 months before you really get much in the way of beneficial fauna. I'd try to go with at least 50/50 live and non live if you can, Dean.
Thanks for the input Cory! I'm really trying to figure out how I want to do things so hearing all sorts of advice is extremely beneficial!
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Yes the PVC fittings I posted will be the corners they connect vertical legs to horizontal pieces once you buy them it will all become clear and ghost feeding is what you will do when you start to grow your bio flirtation. You introduce organic matter as if you are feeding fish to introduce ammonia to grow your colonization of beneficial bacteria
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Well, Joe I have to say that if your drawing skills are rivaled only by your skills as a hobbyist than please accept my sincerest apologies for your fish.
All kidding aside though, my drawing skills aren't anything to brag about so I have no room to talk. Looking at your drawing makes more sense now. I kind of thought that is what you were talking after thought about it some more earlier but wasn't sure. Much better than the egg crate idea for the top that I had.
@ Dean: No problem, that's what I'm hear for...to give moderately sketchy advice and to annoy the heck out of Joe while trying to learn a thing or two all at the same time. It isn't easy! If nothing else I just like tossing ideas around with other people to help give me more ideas for some of my own projects. And he is right, the aragonite sand is a good sand for reefs. It's essentially fossilized coral crushed up. It slowly dissolves overtime and releases trace elements into the tank that are beneficial for live corals. Helps stabilize ph as well if I'm not mistaken. I kind of like the finer sand more for aesthetics I just think it looks a little more like a natural sea sand bed.
I'd try to get friendly with some of the folks at your local fish stores. Ask lots of questions and try to find one that you feel is really willing to help you reach your goal in becoming a reef addict and not just out to take your money. Chances are they may sell or give you a cup of sand to help you out. If not you could always buy a couple of small pieces of live rock to toss in the tank to help kick of a bacterial colony.
Ghost feeding is just a term used for feeding a tank that has no fish or any other livestock in it. What a lot of people here like to do is take a raw dead shrimp and toss it into a brand new tank. What happens is as it decays over a couple of days it releases ammonia into the tank. And once that happens then the bacteria will have a reason to grow and begin to flourish. It's much more humane than using a live fish to cycle a new tank.
 

gcgrad

Member
Directed at Corey and Joe, that's what I figured ghost feeding was when you mentioned it. I guess I doubted myself and didn't want to sound like such a noob if that wasn't correct.
Thanks for all the tips!
 
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