Ok, explain it to me. I really want to know.

sickboy

sickboy

Active Member

Originally Posted by FishyFun2
http:///forum/post/2971072
I started a new thread so as not to hijack another. I really want to understand from people who vote or identify themselves as democrats, why do you do so? What is it about the party that you like and identify with? I was raised in a Democratic family. Registered as a Democrat and voted in the 2000 election as a 21 year old (voted for Gore, by the way). The thing is, as I got older, I learned some stuff about life that changed my mind. I am now registered as a Republican, although I don't like the way the party seems to be going.
So what is it? Please, let me understand!!!! I want to understand!!!!

This is for educational purposes only.

I'm the exact opposite...I voted for Bush in 2000 (first time eligible to vote) and have registered as a Dem since.
Now, granted, I live in Nebraska so I tend to be more conservative in general regardless of party affiliation, but I'll give my best shot at explaining why I vote democrat about 70% of the time (local elections included)
Nationally my view is this:
Democrats are 1)for equal rights for everyone, including marginal groups, 2)they are pro-free market, but will not let the greed that follows to run the country (not anti-big company, but not letting monopolies hurt the little guy), 3) pro labor unions (fits with 2), 4) Diplomacy over war/action, 5) For equitable/gov't education so that we remain competitive, 6) In recent years balance budgets.
Republicans are 1) Religion based for rights, so basically anti- GLBT rights and "help yourself" for everyone else, 2) Free-market at any expense as profits are the best the only way to improve the country, 3) anti-labor union, pro-big corporations, 4) low tolerance for hard diplomacy, action ensues (see Iraq war), 5) Free-market in education (aka, too bad you don't live in a rich area), 6) deficit spending with idea that tax cuts will increase revenues some how.
I differ with the democrats on Gun Control, as I love my guns. I am also split on abortion. But where I'm from, people only vote for republicans b/c of abortion regardless of other issues, and I disagree with that.
But, anyway, that is why I vote democrat most of the time.
Why do you identify yourself as a Republican and like that affiliation?
 
socal57che

socal57che

Active Member
Arnold stepped onto US soil with 20 bucks in his pocket.
The American dream is reality for people willing to pursue it.
 
sickboy

sickboy

Active Member
Originally Posted by jackri
http:///forum/post/2971323
Forgot who said it but basically if your 20 and vote republican you don't have a heart but if you're 40 and vote democrat you don't have a brain.
Very true, you can afford to be generous when young, but are more concerned with self when getting closer to retirement.
 
sickboy

sickboy

Active Member
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/2971709
Arnold stepped onto US soil with 20 bucks in his pocket.
The American dream is reality for people willing to pursue it.
I guess if being in Hollywood is the "American Dream" then true. This differs from the normal definition though...
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Culp
http:///forum/post/2971507
for me it's simple. i feel like Republicans do not care about the normal every day worker. the favor and love people who are CEO's or just make a bunch of money.
By the same token the Democrats want to take money from the self sufficient workers and give it to those who have made bad decisions. At least if the Republicans give the rich a break that includes those who invest and create our jobs.
So you tell me, which is worse?
 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member
Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2971710
Very true, you can afford to be generous when young, but are more concerned with self when getting closer to retirement.
Actually I've frequently observed the opposite to be true.
In many cases (probably most of them), people seem to be interested in keeping their money and being able to reap the rewards of their own success, but when they get closer to retirement, they start to think about how the goverment is going to take care of them in their old age once the paychecks stop coming.
My inlaws are a great example... hard-core Reagan conservatives their entire lives. They retired this year. This year, they told me that they had decided to lean democrat.
 
acrylics

acrylics

Member
Originally Posted by Eric B 125
http:///forum/post/2971698
the american dream is a lie, it always has been.
Sadly mistaken. The American Dream is alive and well for those who are willing to put forth the effort, come up with a new idea, build a better mousetrap, work hard, and earn it. I feel I'm living the Dream; started a company with little money, built it into something I'm proud of. I get no bailouts nor any other compensation other than what I earn. It is work hard, make a good product at a fair price, stand by your word, and have a "failure is not an option" attitude.
13 years of being self-employed, times are kinda tough right now, but I can honestly say that given the choice; I wouldn't do anything else, I love my job.
The Dream is alive, but you do have to earn it. It's always been that way.
 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member
Originally Posted by Culp
http:///forum/post/2971507
for me it's simple. i feel like Republicans do not care about the normal every day worker. the favor and love people who are CEO's or just make a bunch of money.
I was hoping that he'd respond to this. Given some of the rather rude responses that were posted, I'm getting doubtful that he will, so I'll say what I was gonna say...
So many demcrats remark on their distaste for the CEOs and the "rich people."
Most people that are rich did not get it by being simply handed the money, they worked for it by building a small business. Over 2/3 of the individuals in this country that make over 250K a year (the very people Obama wants us to hate the most) presently own successful small businesses.
In a nation that rewards individual success, why should we have such contempt for those who work hard, make smart financial decisions, and oftentimes forego luxuries of instant gratification to reap long term rewards?
As I said earlier, I am not a rich man. If I decided to work hard, invest my money instead of spending it on fish, and put my efforts into a business, why should my success in that business be so reviled by democrats? Why is that so terrible? Most people who are rich endured years of effort and sacrifice to get where they are.
Now, flip it around. Why should I, someone who has a bit of money saved up who is not rich, go through all this effort and sacrifice to build a business and get rich (creating jobs in the process), when I know all I have to look forward to is being loathed by the very people I provide jobs to and used as a scapegoat by the president for all that is wrong with this country, only to have it end with over half of it being taken away from me in taxes?
Rich people like CEOs and small business owners are rich, usually because they run successful companies. These companies create jobs.
The CEO of my company for example. 10 years ago he was a salesman at GE. He got an idea to start a computer company filling a niche in the marketplace he observed. He didn't know anything about computers, so he got together with two guys he knew who did. The CEO is about 6 years older than I am, the two other guys are about 18 months older. The CEO had a a handful of thousands in capital, the other two guys put their homes up as collateral. They spent the next 5 years eating, sleeping, and breathing the business. I've been working for them for 8 years.
They are now, what you'd call rich.
But they risked EVERYTHING they had. They could have been homeless if the business had gone south. But they've employed me for 8 years now, and today, they employ 119 or so other people besides me. They created 120 jobs out of nothing, and risked their entire life savings. Their families did without them at dinner for years. They did without them on the weekends. They drove crap cars, they took no vacations.
Their success was rewarded by making them wealthy, and they created 120 jobs.
This sort of story plays out all the time. These are the people we need to support in this country. These are the ones who matter most. They create jobs. They put money into the economy.
 
rslinger

rslinger

Member
Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/2971752
I was hoping that he'd respond to this. Given some of the rather rude responses that were posted, I'm getting doubtful that he will, so I'll say what I was gonna say...
So many Democrats remark on their distaste for the CEOs and the "rich people."
Most people that are rich did not get it by being simply handed the money, they worked for it by building a small business. Over 2/3 of the individuals in this country that make over 250K a year (the very people Obama wants us to hate the most) presently own successful small businesses.
In a nation that rewards individual success, why should we have such contempt for those who work hard, make smart financial decisions, and oftentimes forego luxuries of instant gratification to reap long term rewards?
As I said earlier, I am not a rich man. If I decided to work hard, invest my money instead of spending it on fish, and put my efforts into a business, why should my success in that business be so reviled by democrats? Why is that so terrible? Most people who are rich endured years of effort and sacrifice to get where they are.
Now, flip it around. Why should I, someone who has a bit of money saved up who is not rich, go through all this effort and sacrifice to build a business and get rich (creating jobs in the process), when I know all I have to look forward to is being loathed by the very people I provide jobs to and used as a scapegoat by the president for all that is wrong with this country, only to have it end with over half of it being taken away from me in taxes?
Rich people like CEOs and small business owners are rich, usually because they run successful companies. These companies create jobs.
The CEO of my company for example. 10 years ago he was a salesman at GE. He got an idea to start a computer company filling a niche in the marketplace he observed. He didn't know anything about computers, so he got together with two guys he knew who did. The CEO is about 6 years older than I am, the two other guys are about 18 months older. The CEO had a a handful of thousands in capital, the other two guys put their homes up as collateral. They spent the next 5 years eating, sleeping, and breathing the business. I've been working for them for 8 years.
They are now, what you'd call rich.
But they risked EVERYTHING they had. They could have been homeless if the business had gone south. But they've employed me for 8 years now, and today, they employ 119 or so other people besides me. They created 120 jobs out of nothing, and risked their entire life savings. Their families did without them at dinner for years. They did without them on the weekends. They drove crap cars, they took no vacations.
Their success was rewarded by making them wealthy, and they created 120 jobs.
This sort of story plays out all the time. These are the people we need to support in this country. These are the ones who matter most. They create jobs. They put money into the economy.
OK well i think that if a small business make enough money to pay three people 250,000 each i would no longer think of that as a small business. Now if you your business takes in over 250,000 a year and you claim all of it as your income that is your own mistake. Some people do this because they don't know better think that by claiming all the business expenses on the tax form that they are helping themselves. NOT TRUE. If you run a business you need to pay yourself like a salaried employee. Give your self raises and such. The business will only pay tax on the profit it makes. You will only pay taxes on your income, not every dollar the business makes. If you are really smart you make sure you show a loss in the business for the first two years because you can then profit that much money tax free over the next two years. But i feel if after your business covers all it expanses(pay employees, equipment, untiles, licenses, supplies, insurances,propriety taxes,

[hr]
, everything) and you can still afford to pay your self more than 250,000 per year than your business is no longer really small is it. Your business is probably taking in a lot more than that but as said only paying taxes on profit
 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rslinger
http:///forum/post/2971776
OK well i think that if a small business make enough money to pay three people 250,000 each i would no longer think of that as a small business. Now if you your business takes in over 250,000 a year and you claim all of it as your income that is your own mistake. Some people do this because they don't know better think that by claiming all the business expenses on the tax form that they are helping themselves. NOT TRUE. If you run a business you need to pay yourself like a salaried employee. Give your self raises and such. The business will only pay tax on the profit it makes. You will only pay taxes on your income, not every dollar the business makes. If you are really smart you make sure you show a loss in the business for the first two years because you can then profit that much money tax free over the next two years. But i feel if after your business covers all it expanses(pay employees, equipment, untiles, licenses, supplies, insurances,propriety taxes,

[hr]
, everything) and you can still afford to pay your self more than 250,000 per year than your business is no longer really small is it. Your business is probably taking in a lot more than that but as said only paying taxes on profit

I guess I don't understand how semantacs over the definition of small business really matter.
So if we don't call it a small business anymore, then it's okay to hate the people who own them? Then it's okay to tax money from them at a disproportionate rate to everyone else?
 
socal57che

socal57che

Active Member
Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/2971786
I guess I don't understand how semantacs over the definition of small business really matter.
So if we don't call it a small business anymore, then it's okay to hate the people who own them? Then it's okay to tax money from them at a disproportionate rate to everyone else?
It's easier to hate the people that fulfil the American dream if they tear down the dream itself.
You just became another liberal statistic. You are no longer even human. They remove your liberty to achieve your ultimate goal by removing the goal, itself. There are examples of the American dream being a reality and it is quickly shot down by democrats. This is the main reason I cannot align myself with the democrats.
That being said, I also do not consider myself a republican. I vote for the best candidate.
 
rslinger

rslinger

Member
Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/2971786
I guess I don't understand how semantacs over the definition of small business really matter.
So if we don't call it a small business anymore, then it's okay to hate the people who own them? Then it's okay to tax money from them at a disproportionate rate to everyone else?
No I don't hate rich people nor do i dislike the idea of an American dream. Ok my federal tax rate(just fedreral no ssi or medicare or anything else) was about 14.2 percent of my income. I belive that someone who earns more than me should still pay the same percentage of income as me. The American dream in awsome, i someday plan on having my own business. If I make that much money i to should have to pay the taxes on it, that is what i feel is fair. If i make big in life and the goverment needs me to help other stugging familys or business or whatever they see fit and they are not taxing me a higher percentage than other people, I don't care because i will have made it. If i made a million i really wouldn't care if i paid 140,000 in taxes its whats best for my country.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by Eric B 125
http:///forum/post/2971698
the american dream is a lie, it always has been.
Bill Gates
Gene Simmons
Mark Cuban
Vince McMahon
4 of the richest guys in the country, that LIVED the american dream. They came from NOTHING.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2971844
Bill Gates
Gene Simmons
Mark Cuban
Vince McMahon
4 of the richest guys in the country, that LIVED the american dream. They came from NOTHING.
Warren Buffet and Bill Gates are the two richest men on the planet, they didn't inherit their wealth. Bill Clinton didn't exactly start out with a silver spoon in his mouth.
Me thinks someone needs to spend less time whining and more time putting a little effort into making the dream happen for themselves and I don't mean buying a lottery ticket every week.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
No kidding....dare we say.....what is the name of the guy that is now holding the highest office in the land.......oh yeah, Barrack Obama.....the guy was born poor...................................(sarcasm on)....american dream is a lie.......He proves it.(Sarcasm off)
 
rslinger

rslinger

Member
I agree that not believing in the American dream is something of a personal problem not a party line vote. Just because I am a Dem does not mean i don't believe in the American dream, in fact I probably believe that it can be bigger and better than ever. Because I believe new ways can and will work.
 
moprint

moprint

Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2971919
Like the government providing healthcare on the backs of those that attained the american dream without government help....We get it.
Is that socialism??

The American Dream is there for people who want. Now if all wanna do is listen too Nine Inch Nails in your moms basement and then say it's not real. Well who is suprised by that??
 
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