Opinions NEEDED! Is there are market for this?
- Thread starter aviator
- Start date
acrylic51
Active Member
The skimmer on most 99% of systems run 24/7......not just at night....
Quote:
Originally Posted by aviator http:///forum/thread/378726/opinions-needed-is-there-are-market-for-this/140#post_3325721
Think about it like this:
5 plugs, each can handle up to 15 amps. but the box can't handle more than 20 total... however you want to split those 20 amps up, you can and keep in mind that you can have more than 20 amps of stuff plugged in, just no more than 20 amps running at the same time.. examples to follow (think day routine and night routine, you have to run those power hungry MH's off some time, that frees up a LOT of capacity!)
the unit can handle a total of 20 amps spread across all the plugs. you have to remember that the common household socket that this unit will be plugged into is only rated for a total of 15 amps. Most homes have 20 amp breakers spanning across multiple sockets. so this unit is sized with that in mind. (20 amp sockets have one of the pins turned on end. the ones that look like a "face" - a standard plug you see in every house across the country, are rated at 15 amps. So if you have all the stuff plugged into a single outlet, I hope you've beefed up your household electric!!! Also remember, there are some things that won't need to get plugged into the unit. For example, I'm not sure I'd plug my canister filter into it. There's no need. It's always on, always running, unless I'm cleaning it. and the Koralia jets are always on, so really, they don't need to be plugged in either.
You could even go as far as to "overload" the box with more than 20 amps worth of equipment, as long as no more than 20 amps worth is running at the same time. (say, run the MH lights and your pumps and Actinics during the day, then at night, run a protein skimmer, LED moonlights, and chiller/heater - something like that)
as long as you're not running more than 15A worth of equipment at once across one socket and no more than 20A across the whole box, you're fine.
Here are some examples of how you could plug things in to the unit, I hope these help clear things up a bit:
plug 1 - 15 amp device (say, 3 400W Metal halide lights) - run during the day
plug 2 - 5 amp device (say a heater, or chiller) - run during the day
plug 3 - NOT USED
plug 4 - 5 amps (Moon lights and two extra power heads) - During the Night
plug 5 - 10 amps (Industrial Protein Skimmer) - During the Night
[hr]
20 amps during the day
15 amps at night
- OR -
Plug 1 - 4 amp device (like a whole bank of pumps)
Plug 2 - 4 amp device
Plug 3 - 4 amp device
Plug 4 - 4 amp device
Plug 5 - 4 amp device
[hr]
20 amps
- OR -
p>
plug 1 - 10 amp device (a bank of CF lights or two MH lights and a bank of Actinics) - during the day
plug 2 - 5 amp device (1 big heater) - run at any time
plug 3 - 5 amp device (one big chiller) - run at any time
plug 4 - NOT USED
plug 5 - 10 amps - (Moon Lights and a tidal power head) - run at night
[hr]
Max of 20 amps during the day
Max of 20 amps at night.
- OR -
plug 1 - 2 amp device (Actinics)
plug 2 - 4 amp device (one 400W MH light)
plug 3 - 7 amp device (a heater/chiller or second MH light)
plug 4 - 1 amp device (LED moonlights and a protein skimmer)
plug 5 - 1 amp device (a coupe of power heads)
[hr]
15 amps
5 amps to spare
One final note: if you're running 240V equipment or 3 phase equipment (big industrial stuff), this unit will not work with it.
Very sweet!!!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by aviator http:///forum/thread/378726/opinions-needed-is-there-are-market-for-this/140#post_3325948
Right now the big problem with adding functionality is running out of space for additional code. Here are a few photos of the unit (finally)
This is a rough-out of how the display will look. This unit was hand-cut, but the production units will obviously be cnc machined for a much nicer look. Still this can give you a good scale of the touchscreen and it's enclosure (compared to my hand).
Temporarily mounted to the hood on my (very dirty, I'm sorry to say) 55 gallon tank - this is my test tank. It's running the lights, the skimmer and the fan on this tank and has been for several weeks.
This is the proof of concept main box, as you can see, only three things are plugged in right now. The three plugs on top are the three items I have plugged into the unit right now (in this picture from left to right - Hood Fan, 400W Metal Halide, CF Actinics). There is a black cord coming out of the box right at my hand. That is the main cord that plugs into the wall and supplies power to the sockets. The white cord coming out at the lower left side of the box is the temperature probe. to the right of that is the black/gray cord that goes to the touchscreen. If you look closely on the side opposite of my hand, you can see where the 12v wall cube is plugged in. There are only 4 plugs on this unit simply because that's all the space there was in this box (and this box was handy, so I used it) - the final box will be an unassuming black box. Obviously there are no stickers on anything with the name, but the finished products will have the logo on it.
So there you have it. the photos aren't great, but at least you can now see scale.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aviator http:///forum/thread/378726/opinions-needed-is-there-are-market-for-this/140#post_3325721
Think about it like this:
5 plugs, each can handle up to 15 amps. but the box can't handle more than 20 total... however you want to split those 20 amps up, you can and keep in mind that you can have more than 20 amps of stuff plugged in, just no more than 20 amps running at the same time.. examples to follow (think day routine and night routine, you have to run those power hungry MH's off some time, that frees up a LOT of capacity!)
the unit can handle a total of 20 amps spread across all the plugs. you have to remember that the common household socket that this unit will be plugged into is only rated for a total of 15 amps. Most homes have 20 amp breakers spanning across multiple sockets. so this unit is sized with that in mind. (20 amp sockets have one of the pins turned on end. the ones that look like a "face" - a standard plug you see in every house across the country, are rated at 15 amps. So if you have all the stuff plugged into a single outlet, I hope you've beefed up your household electric!!! Also remember, there are some things that won't need to get plugged into the unit. For example, I'm not sure I'd plug my canister filter into it. There's no need. It's always on, always running, unless I'm cleaning it. and the Koralia jets are always on, so really, they don't need to be plugged in either.
You could even go as far as to "overload" the box with more than 20 amps worth of equipment, as long as no more than 20 amps worth is running at the same time. (say, run the MH lights and your pumps and Actinics during the day, then at night, run a protein skimmer, LED moonlights, and chiller/heater - something like that)
as long as you're not running more than 15A worth of equipment at once across one socket and no more than 20A across the whole box, you're fine.
Here are some examples of how you could plug things in to the unit, I hope these help clear things up a bit:
plug 1 - 15 amp device (say, 3 400W Metal halide lights) - run during the day
plug 2 - 5 amp device (say a heater, or chiller) - run during the day
plug 3 - NOT USED
plug 4 - 5 amps (Moon lights and two extra power heads) - During the Night
plug 5 - 10 amps (Industrial Protein Skimmer) - During the Night
[hr]
20 amps during the day
15 amps at night
- OR -
Plug 1 - 4 amp device (like a whole bank of pumps)
Plug 2 - 4 amp device
Plug 3 - 4 amp device
Plug 4 - 4 amp device
Plug 5 - 4 amp device
[hr]
20 amps
- OR -
p>
plug 1 - 10 amp device (a bank of CF lights or two MH lights and a bank of Actinics) - during the day
plug 2 - 5 amp device (1 big heater) - run at any time
plug 3 - 5 amp device (one big chiller) - run at any time
plug 4 - NOT USED
plug 5 - 10 amps - (Moon Lights and a tidal power head) - run at night
[hr]
Max of 20 amps during the day
Max of 20 amps at night.
- OR -
plug 1 - 2 amp device (Actinics)
plug 2 - 4 amp device (one 400W MH light)
plug 3 - 7 amp device (a heater/chiller or second MH light)
plug 4 - 1 amp device (LED moonlights and a protein skimmer)
plug 5 - 1 amp device (a coupe of power heads)
[hr]
15 amps
5 amps to spare
One final note: if you're running 240V equipment or 3 phase equipment (big industrial stuff), this unit will not work with it.
Very sweet!!!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by aviator http:///forum/thread/378726/opinions-needed-is-there-are-market-for-this/140#post_3325948
Right now the big problem with adding functionality is running out of space for additional code. Here are a few photos of the unit (finally)
This is a rough-out of how the display will look. This unit was hand-cut, but the production units will obviously be cnc machined for a much nicer look. Still this can give you a good scale of the touchscreen and it's enclosure (compared to my hand).
Temporarily mounted to the hood on my (very dirty, I'm sorry to say) 55 gallon tank - this is my test tank. It's running the lights, the skimmer and the fan on this tank and has been for several weeks.
This is the proof of concept main box, as you can see, only three things are plugged in right now. The three plugs on top are the three items I have plugged into the unit right now (in this picture from left to right - Hood Fan, 400W Metal Halide, CF Actinics). There is a black cord coming out of the box right at my hand. That is the main cord that plugs into the wall and supplies power to the sockets. The white cord coming out at the lower left side of the box is the temperature probe. to the right of that is the black/gray cord that goes to the touchscreen. If you look closely on the side opposite of my hand, you can see where the 12v wall cube is plugged in. There are only 4 plugs on this unit simply because that's all the space there was in this box (and this box was handy, so I used it) - the final box will be an unassuming black box. Obviously there are no stickers on anything with the name, but the finished products will have the logo on it.
So there you have it. the photos aren't great, but at least you can now see scale.
J
jstdv8
Guest
Well you certainly get points for stylish looks thats for sure.
aviator
Member
I don't know about everyone else, but I didn't want a boring box for the display, it had to be presentable, you know?
I was really hoping to have the opening CNC machined for this first box, but the setup fee was astronomical - it only makes sense to do it when you have at least 10 of them to cut.
I was really hoping to have the opening CNC machined for this first box, but the setup fee was astronomical - it only makes sense to do it when you have at least 10 of them to cut.
gill again68
Active Member
I really like it. Any chance when you start making these that people would have a choice of colors? You know black, tan, white, so that it would match more to stand color? Looks like you have really done a great job. I wish I had that talent but no I ended up good looking
.
desertdawg
Member
Here's a question, or suggestion...
Will I be able to control the lights on my scrubber with one timer so that they are on for 9 hours and off for 3, twice a day????
Will I be able to control the lights on my scrubber with one timer so that they are on for 9 hours and off for 3, twice a day????
desertdawg
Member
Is it an option we can look forward to later?
It won't be the make or break for me, but it would sure be nice to have...
It won't be the make or break for me, but it would sure be nice to have...
aviator
Member
It is most likely going to be something that will be added to the system at a later date, yes. I, too, like the idea of being able to have two cycles in a 24 hour period - or three... not sure yet, or even being able to set them to one hour on, one hour off - repeat for 24 hours... etc. I can definitely see the need for flexibility in time cycles.
Right now, the biggest issue I'm having is with connectors (of all things) so I am going through a re-design of the board, eliminating the molex connectors I was using and moving over to all RJ45 connectors. I think I mentioned that before but didn't scroll back through the thread to find out.
Right now, the biggest issue I'm having is with connectors (of all things) so I am going through a re-design of the board, eliminating the molex connectors I was using and moving over to all RJ45 connectors. I think I mentioned that before but didn't scroll back through the thread to find out.
desertdawg
Member
Better to find the problems now...
I never liked molex, those dang pins are just to touchy and I can never get them back out without destroying them...
I like wire nuts...
I never liked molex, those dang pins are just to touchy and I can never get them back out without destroying them...
I like wire nuts...
J
jstdv8
Guest
dawg, dare I ask why you don't just run the scrubber lights on 18 hours off for 6? Thats what I do and what most others ive seen do. getting better growth with that schedule or something?
desertdawg
Member
It's just the way I started, I read it somewhere on the scrubber site last year and never bothered to try anything different.
I run a 2 sided screen 10x10 and usually get about 2 cups per 10 days off of it.
If you think 18 on 6 off is better then let me know.
It looks like I'll be trying that schedule anyway with Aviator's awesome Marine FX controller...
(how's that for advertising?)
I run a 2 sided screen 10x10 and usually get about 2 cups per 10 days off of it.
If you think 18 on 6 off is better then let me know.
It looks like I'll be trying that schedule anyway with Aviator's awesome Marine FX controller...
(how's that for advertising?)
J
jstdv8
Guest
Not saying its better, just that I thought thats what everyone was doing. I hadn't heard of the on 9 off 3 thing.
Probably doesnt make a difference, jsut so the algae gets to rest.
Probably doesnt make a difference, jsut so the algae gets to rest.
desertdawg
Member
Yeah, allowing it to rest was what I was after, but I agree it probably doesn't matter how...
Aviator, any progress???
Aviator, any progress???
aviator
Member
Yes. I've got the first circuit board cut, but am having a bit of an issue with the supplier of the optocouplers I'm using. Apparently they've decided to discontinue their production (stupid supplier) - so I'm having to go with a different model, which means the circuit board has to change . . . again . . . and get re-cut . . . again . . ah the joys of circuit design and production...
I've been told, privately, by several people that this is an "easy task" - that a timer like this is a simple build, the code needed to run it would run on an Arduino chip/platform, etc...
well, I'm here to tell those people that it's not as easy as you think it is to develop a timer like this that is commercial quality, can run non-stop 24/7/365, doesn't consume HUGE amounts of power, looks good, functions well, doesn't have bugs - and above ALL ELSE - it is SAFE FOR CONSUMERS TO USE... Sure, it could be developed on many different platforms, I'm sure the arduino platform can do this, and probably very well - but the skill of developing a device like this doesn't come in bit-banging the code to make a chip do what you want, thats just one small piece of the puzzle (albeit extremely important)
To this end I submit this image. This is the main board layout of the unit, notice it's not small, simple, or "easy" to reproduce. Why? because it's built properly, grounded properly, devloped properly, designed properly and it is safe. (oh, and if anyone is wondering, I've left out several very key traces, and two components and their traces, to prevent copying)
Sorry to rant, but it frustrates me to no end when people say "eh, I can do that... why would I buy yours for $XXX? you want to much money for a such a simple timer" - simple my arse! a fully developed circuit such as this isn't "simple" - sorry. This board contains both 5V DC and 110VAC - one of the biggest tricks is keeping one section shielded from the other - otherwise you will eventually destroy the microprocessor.
I also have all the connections moved over to RJ45 - and I've added two expansion ports (YEAH!!!) - this makes adding additional modules very easy in the future. Just plug them in, the system recognizes them. I still have to re-work the code a little to include the hardware expansion, but it shouldn't be that much work. The expansion ports are universal enough to handle adding more controlled outlets, adding LED driver modules, a probe module, etc...
But enough on the technical junk.
My hope is to have the beta units ready to ship before December 1. In fact, I might get to ship the first one before thanksgiving (hint hint)
I've been told, privately, by several people that this is an "easy task" - that a timer like this is a simple build, the code needed to run it would run on an Arduino chip/platform, etc...
well, I'm here to tell those people that it's not as easy as you think it is to develop a timer like this that is commercial quality, can run non-stop 24/7/365, doesn't consume HUGE amounts of power, looks good, functions well, doesn't have bugs - and above ALL ELSE - it is SAFE FOR CONSUMERS TO USE... Sure, it could be developed on many different platforms, I'm sure the arduino platform can do this, and probably very well - but the skill of developing a device like this doesn't come in bit-banging the code to make a chip do what you want, thats just one small piece of the puzzle (albeit extremely important)
To this end I submit this image. This is the main board layout of the unit, notice it's not small, simple, or "easy" to reproduce. Why? because it's built properly, grounded properly, devloped properly, designed properly and it is safe. (oh, and if anyone is wondering, I've left out several very key traces, and two components and their traces, to prevent copying)
Sorry to rant, but it frustrates me to no end when people say "eh, I can do that... why would I buy yours for $XXX? you want to much money for a such a simple timer" - simple my arse! a fully developed circuit such as this isn't "simple" - sorry. This board contains both 5V DC and 110VAC - one of the biggest tricks is keeping one section shielded from the other - otherwise you will eventually destroy the microprocessor.
I also have all the connections moved over to RJ45 - and I've added two expansion ports (YEAH!!!) - this makes adding additional modules very easy in the future. Just plug them in, the system recognizes them. I still have to re-work the code a little to include the hardware expansion, but it shouldn't be that much work. The expansion ports are universal enough to handle adding more controlled outlets, adding LED driver modules, a probe module, etc...
But enough on the technical junk.
My hope is to have the beta units ready to ship before December 1. In fact, I might get to ship the first one before thanksgiving (hint hint)