Opinions NEEDED! Is there are market for this?

[aviator]

Agreed, it was UGLY.
Part of development on the fly and trying to keep things updated here (as well as two other forums) means that I have to to the programming first, the pretty stuff later. So, initially, I just needed a graphic to program with, so that ugly one went up first. The new one is much nicer and goes more with the theme of the rest of the graphics, I think.
I'm still DYING for some name suggestions though!!! Anyone? anyone?
Spread the word about this little project, I'd like to get as many people interested as possible!!
I finished making the first temp probe this afternoon, it works VERY well. At first, it was about a degree higher than my cheapo digital thermometer and I was worried, but after using a medial grade thermometer, it's EXACTLY right and my cheapo was the one that was off. The great thing, and something that I think gives me an edge over some of the competition is the temp probe, it's all digital and self calibrating. It's not a cheap thermistor, like every other unit I've seen uses. Thermistors tend to drift and are generally not linear after about two months... it's all techincal junk, but the end result is a thermometer that isn't accurate after a few months. It's only a degree or two off, but in an aquarium that could be the difference between thriving corals and inverts and struggling inverts.
My temp probe costs a bit more, but the accuracy makes it worth it, to me at least.
I still very much have plans on making an LED version (I, myself, want to convert to LED's) and plan on making a unit with all the special functions that LED's can do. things like sunrise, sunset, cloud cover, weather events, moon light, different sunset colors etc...
I can tell you that the current processor I am using just doesn't have enough room onboard to do all that stuff PLUS the things I am programming now, so I am going to have to go with a larger processor, no biggie. The second thing I have to take into consideration is sizing the LED capacity - so the question is do I make the LED's units myself to sell with the system, or do I try and size the unit more genericaly to work with some other vendors units? thoughts? the LED unit would still have the 5 plugs. the LED unit would be an add-on unit using the system bus (feature I've not mentioned before but have programmed in) for control and be powered by it's own 110V cord. LED's present a lot of new and different challenges, so expect the system to be quite a bit more expensive.

 

[desertdawg]

Names...
Well since reef and aqua are already being used then how about marine?
Marine Monitor
Marine Controller
Marine Manager
You can still think about Reef or Aqua Manager too.

 

[flower]

We don't know your name ...but something with your name is always good.

• 
  The Protection Master
• 
  Tankguard
• 
  The Tank Manager
• 
  The Reef Boss
  Te Aquarium Shield
  The Reef Shield
  The Guardian
  The Water Steward

 

[2quills]

To be honest with you...I like the design but for $300 I can get a profilux II controler that can control dimmable ballasts and simulate random cloud coverage and storms with my LED's as well as control Tunze pumps...monitor temps and all that. It doesn't have the touch screen feature like yours does but it is a profilux which is a well respected and established name in the hobby. I did see another controler the other day and I'll try to find the link for you...I believe it was the Pacific Sun controler that has a much larger touch screen High Def display.
Here's a picture of it...

 

[flower]

Wow Coray, I have to admit that looks pretty good...but.... Keep my name on the list, I like sorta knowing the inventor, seeing the gizmo from the start of inception...How cool is that?
By the way ...did you send me my Fantastic Corey Gizmo? I can't wait to see it in person. I have been showing all my family that video.

 

[ibew41]

will this unit be able to monitor ph or orp, at the $300 cost or just a wavemaker and temp sensor and be able to turn lights on, the thread is long and I might have missed it

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/378726/opinions-needed-is-there-are-market-for-this/120#post_3323988

Wow Coray, I have to admit that looks pretty good...but.... Keep my name on the list, I like sorta knowing the inventor, seeing the gizmo from the start of inception...How cool is that?
By the way ...did you send me my Fantastic Corey Gizmo? I can't wait to see it in person. I have been showing all my family that video.

That one in the picture Flower is just a light controler for Pacific Sun's LED fixtures. I think it won't be long before other manufacturers start using an LCD display. I'm not trying to downplay Aviators creation at all, just giving some honest opinion from a consumers stand point. At $275-300 dollar range he's putting the controler more in a pricerange catagory of other controlers that can do alot more. Granted the touch screen is nice but I think flexibility is what a lot of people are after. If he could have kept it in the $150-$175 range I think it would be much more appealing than the other lower end light control units. I'll ship the gizmo I think on Monday. I got a box for it yesterday, just have to pack it and send now.

 

[aviator]

appreciate the input and will check the system out if you can get me a link.
it doesn't surprise me that there are other systems in this price range that can do all (or more) of what my unit can do. It's also not surprising that they can offer them at a somewhat lower price. It's very hard to compete with a large company that has lots of resources and lots of money to throw at a new toy's development. Originaly, the whole idea of this project was to make a nicely featured unit at a lower price, but I've come to realize that, while this was an admirable goal, the consumer that is in the market for a unit like this wants more feaures and is willing to pay for them. A good example was the mention of a touchscreen - that really got peoples attention, so it was included in development. Unfortunatley it also bumped the price up.
Like I said, competing with a large company making a similar unit would almost be silly to attempt, BUT - since there's not another system out there with a full color touchscreen like this, I still think there's a niche' that might be interested. Worst case scenario, I have a completley custom unit on my own aquarium. I can tell you that the unit I am putting on my tank is goig to be integrated into the hood. the screen itself wil be right "in" the front of the hood and not set up on a stand, or hanging on the tank.
I know that being able to track pH, orp, Salinity, Alkalinity, phosphates and nitrates is important. So far I've been able to find a pH and ORP probe that I'd like to use. I also have put together a schematic for reading these probes and don't think it will be that hard to incorporate into the desin. It's just a matter of geting the money together to purcase the probes. Right now, all my "mad money" has been put into the main timer itself (and the wife bought a new pair of ocelaris clowns... so there ya go) once I can get the probes purchased, I will be adding their functionality to the unit.
and hey, if it doesn't sell - well it doesn't sell... no worries. I started the project for myself, really, not as a means to make money. Heck, even if I only sell a couple of 'em , I'm good with that too! either way , you have to look at it like this... I am an aquarium enthusiast making a system that MUST be reliable - why? cause I'm using it in my own tank!! I'm invested not only as the inventor, but as a consumer of the product at the same time
I wonder how many of the engineers at these other companies (assuming it was even developed in house) use their own system on their tanks... I wonder how many even HAVE tanks... My unit isn't about becoming a millionaire, it's about making a quality system that I will want to use and THEN at a price that makes it reasonable for me to build and sell. I can tell you that I won't cut out features or use cheaper parts just to make the unit's price lower. If it doesn't sell at a price that is reasonable for me to invest my time, money and effort, then it just won't sell. While it may make sense for these other companies to farm out the assembly of their units to third-world factories with employees barely making enough to live on (an assumption, I know), I'm not driven by the almighty dollar in this endeavor. I don't have to keep a close eye on a corporations bottom line either. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not willing to make $0.45 an hour to assemble these units for sale, it just would't be worth my time, you know? So the answer is, price the unit to where it's worth it for me to assemble the units and sell them. And thats where that $250-$300 price point comes in. You'd be surprised at just how little I would be making off each unit - but I have to ballance profit with invested time and materials. Any good inventor knows that you have to keep asking yourself the quesion "If I can only make $xx.xx off of this per unt, is it worth even building? " - you draw that line in the financial sand and constantly re-evaluate the answer. I don't have all the resources of a large company, so I really can't compete with them (at least not right now...

)

 

[aviator]

BTW: the sytem that the above screen is from cost almost $1,000 US - not really a fair comparison
I've been able to find the Profilux II light, I must assume thats the one you're referring to because it's the only one in the $250 - $300 Range. But I take issue with the comparison of this unit with mine and saying it's comparable, It only has a 2 line LCD display, it only controls 4 devices and it doesn't come with the temperature probe at the base price. Their unit isn't expandable either.
Perhaps I am looking at the wrong unit, but the other units I see from them are MUCH MUCH more expensive. the next model up is the Profilux II Beginner package, and it's $500 bucks.

 

[2quills]

Actually the site that I was looking at those X-Screen controlers has them for $525. Not a fair comparision I just through that in there to let you know that others are starting to go the touch screen route or maybe help give you some ideas for your LED version. Indeed that will present some challenges...I'll have to get back with you on more ideas on that. http://www.aquariumled.eu/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7&products_id=37
This is the ProfiLux that I am talking about...
The GHL ProfiLux II is releasing early next year with plenty of interoperability to really tap in and control your LED lighting system. The new ProfiLux unit is a good option for budget-minded reefers looking for the benefits of GHL’s ProfiLux line at a more affordable entry point. Starting at $299, they won’t have all the bells and whistles of the other ProfiLux units, but it is easier on the wallet and will have more than enough features to keep the average reefer happy. These units come primed for use with your Aqua Illumination LED or AquaRay LED fixture for really getting creative with your lighting. Need cloud cover? No problem. A fully simulated lunar cycle? Check. Water control for up to eight Tunze pumps? Done. Bad news is, the units will not be upgradable to the ProfiLux Plus II or P3. The latest unit will begin shipping in February 2010 and are available for pre-order from Aqua Digital and their retailer network or eventually directly from GHL. Stay tuned for all the “deets” after the break.
Lighting Details and Features

• 
  Aqua Illumination ready and TMC AquaRay compatible
• 
  Eight channel illumination control for dimmable and non-dimmable lamps
• 
  Sunrise and sunset
• 
  Moon phase simulation, calendar-based
• 
  Cloud simulation through random generator, thunderstorm calculation
• 
  Rainy days, programmable
• 
  Operation hour meter for lamps
• 
  Burning-in mode for fluorescent tubes
  Other Features

• 
  Tunze ready for up to 8 pumps
• 
  Eight channel dosing pump control
• 
  Compatible with ny 1-10V device
• 
  USB onboard for easy PC connection
• 
  PC-interface, LAN and WLAN option, operation with free Windows™-Software ProfiLuxControl II
  Control of speed-variable current pumps (ebb/tide and wave simulation)
  Feed pause for pumps
  Battery-buffered real time clock
  Connection option for external display
  Display of reminder texts (e.g. “Filter change!”)
  Control of up to 24 switchable power sockets
  Eight clock timer programmable
  Child protection via PIN-code
  Simple and intuitive operation, all settings are made in form of interactive dialogues
  All settings are stored in a non-volatile storage (EEPROM) even during power failures
  Computer is expandable with 1 additional module
  Several aquarium computers can be networked
  Not upgradeable to Plus II or P3

I believe the Profilux also has an App out for Iphone for these controlers. I don't know if this is fair comparison or not...but getting up around the $300 dollar range starts getting you close to the other guys.

 

[aviator]

Thanks for post that link with the touchscreen. It looks cool, BUT: for that price, you're only getting the screen, nothing else. no controllers, no probes... it's just a $525 add-on. it is cool though!
Here's what I see immediatley in comparison to the Profilux II Light system:
Theirs does NOT come with a temp probe. (LOL, go price that little gem!)
theirs doesn't track any historical data and can't display that data internally. you have to have it plugged into a computer to do that.
They offer an "optioal" display, but mine comes with a full color touchscreen for the same price.
They claim to be able to chain up to 24 devices together - but the initial unit only comes with 4 plugs. price the "add on" units - OUCH!
They offer software and say that their system in LAN/WAN capable - which is great if you don't have a nice screen built into the system - mine does.
Control of speed variable pumps? - LOL - and? - mine can do that too
they have a battery "buffered' real time clock - my unit has tripple backups - even if the internal battery goes dead, the last good time and date are stored in memory,
they are using an EEPROM to store data - old Technology. I'm using newer technology with the same ability to store data regardless of power, but access is 10 times faster
given, my unit won't do weather patterns, it's not Tunze pump ready, but my unit does just about everything else that their "light" version can do - and many things it can't. things like oh, temperature monitoring, trending and charting, temperature alarms, not just one text reminder, but four, mine has a PIN lock as well - but uses to the touchscreen to enter it, no fumbling wth tiny buttons, or navigating confusing menus. just touch the screen.
The info you posted was updated when the unit was finally released though - it ony controlls 4 plugs, can control 8 other digital units, but can't be upgraded or expanded. The expansion feature was apparently removed at production time. (saving money I suppose)
Frankly, my unit blows this unit out of the water - but they have one critical thing that mine doesn't - they're in production and can be purchased RIGHT NOW - LOL.
Not tryin to pick a fight or anything, please don't take it that way... but this is my little invention - I HAVE to defend it! Seriosly, though, thanks for the info, It's truly appreciated and needed - I really appreciate honest opinions like this... and I need more of them!

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aviator http:///forum/thread/378726/opinions-needed-is-there-are-market-for-this/120#post_3324058
Thanks for post that link with the touchscreen. It looks cool, BUT: for that price, you're only getting the screen, nothing else. no controllers, no probes... it's just a $525 add-on. it is cool though!
Here's what I see immediatley in comparison to the Profilux II Light system:
Theirs does NOT come with a temp probe. (LOL, go price that little gem!)
theirs doesn't track any historical data and can't display that data internally. you have to have it plugged into a computer to do that.
They offer an "optioal" display, but mine comes with a full color touchscreen for the same price.
They claim to be able to chain up to 24 devices together - but the initial unit only comes with 4 plugs. price the "add on" units - OUCH!
They offer software and say that their system in LAN/WAN capable - which is great if you don't have a nice screen built into the system - mine does.
Control of speed variable pumps? - LOL - and? - mine can do that too
they have a battery "buffered' real time clock - my unit has tripple backups - even if the internal battery goes dead, the last good time and date are stored in memory,
they are using an EEPROM to store data - old Technology. I'm using newer technology with the same ability to store data regardless of power, but access is 10 times faster
given, my unit won't do weather patterns, it's not Tunze pump ready, but my unit does just about everything else that their "light" version can do - and many things it can't. things like oh, temperature monitoring, trending and charting, temperature alarms, not just one text reminder, but four, mine has a PIN lock as well - but uses to the touchscreen to enter it, no fumbling wth tiny buttons, or navigating confusing menus. just touch the screen.
The info you posted was updated when the unit was finally released though - it ony controlls 4 plugs, can control 8 other digital units, but can't be upgraded or expanded. The expansion feature was apparently removed at production time. (saving money I suppose)
Frankly, my unit blows this unit out of the water - but they have one critical thing that mine doesn't - they're in production and can be purchased RIGHT NOW - LOL.
lol yeah, that is the one difference. And I'm glad you put all of that into perspective because to be honest I don't remember every little thing that your unit does like you do because you built it and going back through the thread to find things can be time consuming. Again not trying to downplay your system at all. If anything I'm just trying to figure it all out so that I see clearly what it can and cant do in comparison and think along the lines of what another cosumer might. You'll have to expect to hear these things and stand behind your unit. And you have! Lots of manufacturers bring things to the table and aren't willing to give you any information on them and that always makes me leary.
The more I see and hear about your unit the more I like it.

 

[dmanatee]

This sounds awesome to me. being an Engineer myself and one to tinker with things a bit too much this thing sounds amazing. I have "this is embarrassing." Three sets of multi function timers and they drive me nuts because of the birds nest that they form. If I could have just one unit that did all that, I would be very happy. I hope you product pulls though, hope you get a patten soon! Because I will be one to want to buy it!

 

[gill again68]

Well its not surprising that the unit is taking new shapes and price. After all you are a salt water nut aren't you. We can't help ourselves. Now your original idea of a very nice unit at or below the $99.00 mark would still be IMO a great way for people to test your product and want to invest more dollars. $300.00 bucks, for most people even in this hobby, is a chunk of change. I am absolutely sure that you are not over pricing the product and I am very confident that the attention to quality and detail will outmatch the big corporate models. Still without track records you may struggle to move the product. Again understanding why you are doing this and that its not about the money is cool but I cant help but want to see you develop this and get them out there. So I said all that to say this, do you still have a plan to get multiple users to test the product? Sure you can use it but is it user friendly? I mean can a dumbarsh like myself use it? Thats not a request to send me one for free, unless you just have to LOL but a thought about marketing and feedback for you to work off of. Good luck with the project.

 

[aviator]

Yes, I am still planning on sending a couple of test units out, that should be happening in the near future.
I also understand what you're saying about having a unit that is less expensive. Having a track record is important, especially if you're asking people to dole out $300 clams for something. I'm not quite sure how to takle that aspect though. I am still working with a few ideas to make a low-cost unit though. Perhaps with a difference LCD screen and a fewer features (like having a single reminder instead of 4 of them etc..) I would love to have an entire line of timers/monitors from inexpensive, to fully decked out.

 

[jstdv8]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aviator http:///forum/thread/378726/opinions-needed-is-there-are-market-for-this/120#post_3324244
Yes, I am still planning on sending a couple of test units out, that should be happening in the near future.
I also understand what you're saying about having a unit that is less expensive. Having a track record is important, especially if you're asking people to dole out $300 clams for something. I'm not quite sure how to takle that aspect though. I am still working with a few ideas to make a low-cost unit though. Perhaps with a difference LCD screen and a fewer features (like having a single reminder instead of 4 of them etc..) I would love to have an entire line of timers/monitors from inexpensive, to fully decked out.
Sweet,
I'm defiantley in the market right now and will be likley making a purchase on one before Christmas. right now I'm looking at the reef keeper lite. if you have something similar for a similar price I may consider giving it a strong look.

 

[desertdawg]

You can always jump on the iphone/ipod bandwagon and call it .... Ireef

I laugh, but I can see the logo now.

 

[pauloesco]

Fwiw, Salinity can be measured by conductivuty probes. And there are definitely nitrate and phosphate probes, but they're not cheap.

 

[pauloesco]

Dumb question. Why not have the controller run X10s like the aquacontrollers? I liked that system. I can use probes to identify a condition then instruct x10s to do. A job. Eg. Ph low, add kW. Ph high, stop kW. Salinity high, add FW. Orp low, run ozone. Worked for me for 10 yrs on a 500g reef. It also ran lights and pumps like a champ -- in fact -- now I'm using it without probes for lighting and wavemaking on 2 different tanks in 2 rooms. (The x10s on both tanks are coded the same.)

 

[aviator]

Part of the reason I'm not making them X10 compatible is, simply, that I'm out of code space in the current system. I have 4 bytes (yes bytes) of space left when all the original features are implimented - so there's no room currently. That will change later when I upgrade the microprocessors though.