Opinions NEEDED! Is there are market for this?

aviator

aviator

Member
One of the big problems with probes and a unit like this are that the longer they are left in the water, the more crud the collect. More crud on the probe means less accurate (or totally inaccurate) readings. So far, every monitor I've seen that uses probes has a disclaimer about cleaning the probes regularly, which makes sense - and that may be how I end up having to do it too, but where's the automation in that?? - so I'm working on coming up with a better design that either calibrates for the gunk, or prevents gunk buildup (think dark box) and is fairly unobtrusive in the aquarium.
I know many people have a fuge that the could put the probes in and not have to worry too teribly much about how it looks, but many people (myself included) don't run a fuge on their tank. The last thing I was is another ugly box being stuck in the water for a bunch of probes.
 
aviator

aviator

Member
Just a quick update, I got the screen enclosure in today, they're fantastic! I'll try to get a photo up over the next day with the screen mounted in on. I've also decided to go with RJ12 (standard phone line) cable to connect the touchscreen with the main unit, that way the end user can use whatever length cable the want (within reason) to locate the screen anywhere they want.
I also got all of the main unit enclosures in, but I'm not sure that they're what I really want to use. They may be too large - I've manage to shrink the actual computer down pretty small, so I think I may re-visit those enclosures as well.
I made a few minor changes to the circuit - most notably going to 15A relays instead of 20A relays, it shave about $10 off the price. I'm looking at several other ways to save as well. For example: I was originally going to put a female connector on the outside of the unit for the 110V input and supply a cable much like what you would get with a computer. However, wiring it directly and getting rid of that socket saves another $5 or so. Changing from specialty Molex connectors on the temp probe, expansion ports and the touchscreen port and going to RJ12 connectors saves another $3 - so I'm trying to get the costs down. I will continue massaging things to get the costs down further as well.
Look for pictures soon!
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
The issue with X-10's and has been proven, that they aren't truely reliable on a system....Things can cause interference with the X-10's and honestly I myself don't want to have to question or wonder if something might cause interference with it....This has been highly documented on the well known controllers on the market already that have used the X-10's at 1 time or another.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PauloEsco http:///forum/thread/378726/opinions-needed-is-there-are-market-for-this/120#post_3324674
Dumb question. Why not have the controller run X10s like the aquacontrollers? I liked that system. I can use probes to identify a condition then instruct x10s to do. A job. Eg. Ph low, add kW. Ph high, stop kW. Salinity high, add FW. Orp low, run ozone. Worked for me for 10 yrs on a 500g reef. It also ran lights and pumps like a champ -- in fact -- now I'm using it without probes for lighting and wavemaking on 2 different tanks in 2 rooms. (The x10s on both tanks are coded the same.)
Honestly the savings of $10 IMHO isn't significant enough to drop from a 20A to 15A....depending on equipment you might need that 20A....JMHO
Quote:
Originally Posted by aviator http:///forum/thread/378726/opinions-needed-is-there-are-market-for-this/140#post_3324953
Just a quick update, I got the screen enclosure in today, they're fantastic! I'll try to get a photo up over the next day with the screen mounted in on. I've also decided to go with RJ12 (standard phone line) cable to connect the touchscreen with the main unit, that way the end user can use whatever length cable the want (within reason) to locate the screen anywhere they want.
I also got all of the main unit enclosures in, but I'm not sure that they're what I really want to use. They may be too large - I've manage to shrink the actual computer down pretty small, so I think I may re-visit those enclosures as well.
I made a few minor changes to the circuit - most notably going to 15A relays instead of 20A relays, it shave about $10 off the price. I'm looking at several other ways to save as well. For example: I was originally going to put a female connector on the outside of the unit for the 110V input and supply a cable much like what you would get with a computer. However, wiring it directly and getting rid of that socket saves another $5 or so. Changing from specialty Molex connectors on the temp probe, expansion ports and the touchscreen port and going to RJ12 connectors saves another $3 - so I'm trying to get the costs down. I will continue massaging things to get the costs down further as well.
Look for pictures soon!
 
desertdawg

desertdawg

Member
Add some more shadow to the FX, they need a little more definition. I think I like the look and sound of Marine FX better...
I'm a photoshop hack in my spare time too...I just need to stay in a Holiday Inn Express for my life to be complete
 
aviator

aviator

Member
Shawn, I just read your post above with the red text.
While you are right, the amount isn't that significant, you have to remember that the unit itself can only hand a total of 20 amps. So, if you have one 20A item, you can't use the rest of the plug-ins. I can't think of anything outside of my welder and plasma cutter in the garage that pull more than 15 amps. Give me an idea as to what equipment you're thinking about.
Inrush current is a different story, the can handle up to 50 amps of inrush, but you will pop your home breaker at that point.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Ok!!!! Maybe I'm missing something here, but how many outlet/olivine does the unit have? Is it possible to link more outlets to the head unit?
My dumbness comes into play when I think about possible scenarios for my own setup. Let's say I want to run 4 400w MH's at 3.50 amp each.... Right there is 14amps of the 15. These amp numbers from Icecap ballasts, let's assume 2 Sequence Reeflo Hammerhead pumps @ 2amp, which totals 4 bringing me to 18 amps.... Not accounting for 2 OceansMotions, a couple Tunze streams, 500w heater, CaRx pump....
 
aviator

aviator

Member
Think about it like this:
5 plugs, each can handle up to 15 amps. but the box can't handle more than 20 total... however you want to split those 20 amps up, you can and keep in mind that you can have more than 20 amps of stuff plugged in, just no more than 20 amps running at the same time.. examples to follow (think day routine and night routine, you have to run those power hungry MH's off some time, that frees up a LOT of capacity!)
the unit can handle a total of 20 amps spread across all the plugs. you have to remember that the common household socket that this unit will be plugged into is only rated for a total of 15 amps. Most homes have 20 amp breakers spanning across multiple sockets. so this unit is sized with that in mind. (20 amp sockets have one of the pins turned on end. the ones that look like a "face" - a standard plug you see in every house across the country, are rated at 15 amps. So if you have all the stuff plugged into a single outlet, I hope you've beefed up your household electric!!! Also remember, there are some things that won't need to get plugged into the unit. For example, I'm not sure I'd plug my canister filter into it. There's no need. It's always on, always running, unless I'm cleaning it. and the Koralia jets are always on, so really, they don't need to be plugged in either.
You could even go as far as to "overload" the box with more than 20 amps worth of equipment, as long as no more than 20 amps worth is running at the same time. (say, run the MH lights and your pumps and Actinics during the day, then at night, run a protein skimmer, LED moonlights, and chiller/heater - something like that)
as long as you're not running more than 15A worth of equipment at once across one socket and no more than 20A across the whole box, you're fine.
Here are some examples of how you could plug things in to the unit, I hope these help clear things up a bit:
plug 1 - 15 amp device (say, 3 400W Metal halide lights) - run during the day
plug 2 - 5 amp device (say a heater, or chiller) - run during the day
plug 3 - NOT USED
plug 4 - 5 amps (Moon lights and two extra power heads) - During the Night
plug 5 - 10 amps (Industrial Protein Skimmer) - During the Night

[hr]
20 amps during the day
15 amps at night
- OR -
Plug 1 - 4 amp device (like a whole bank of pumps)
Plug 2 - 4 amp device
Plug 3 - 4 amp device
Plug 4 - 4 amp device
Plug 5 - 4 amp device

[hr]
20 amps
- OR -
plug 1 - 10 amp device (a bank of CF lights or two MH lights and a bank of Actinics) - during the day
plug 2 - 5 amp device (1 big heater) - run at any time
plug 3 - 5 amp device (one big chiller) - run at any time
plug 4 - NOT USED
plug 5 - 10 amps - (Moon Lights and a tidal power head) - run at night

[hr]
Max of 20 amps during the day
Max of 20 amps at night.
- OR -
plug 1 - 2 amp device (Actinics)
plug 2 - 4 amp device (one 400W MH light)
plug 3 - 7 amp device (a heater/chiller or second MH light)
plug 4 - 1 amp device (LED moonlights and a protein skimmer)
plug 5 - 1 amp device (a coupe of power heads)

[hr]
15 amps
5 amps to spare
One final note: if you're running 240V equipment or 3 phase equipment (big industrial stuff), this unit will not work with it.
 
aviator

aviator

Member
I should have time this weekend to work on this. Sorry it's taking so long to put photos up.. .priorities...
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Gotcha.... No worry on the electrical in the house... That's why I had commented earlier about spreading the load amongst multiple circuits, but I'm following you!!!!
 
aviator

aviator

Member
I really REALLY want to make it expandable. I like the idea of being able to add plugs at will. The big hang-up right now is how the system will display more than 5 devices elegantly. Perhaps 2 pages or something with tabs at the top that can be names (example "lights" on one tab and "pumps" on the other or something)
I haven't worked that out yet, but it's rattling around in my brain and I"m making the initial units with all the hardware on board to do upgrades, it's the firmware that's the stopping point right now. They will also come with the necessary ports to add water quality probes, even in the firmware doesn't support them yet. (I'm talking the initial test units) - then I can develop the firmware while the test units are out in the field.
At this point, it looks like the test units are going out with 5 timers and a temp probe, thats it. At some point you have to stop fiddling with the thing and get it to market!
I have ideas for a web interface (and have the net server built) - simple add-on - they will all use the same bus to talk, so that part will be built into the main units, with the ability to expand as your budget or needs allow. I'm even thinking of putting together a high capacity single plug that can be controlled, chain several together if you need them..
so many plans and ideas...
 
desertdawg

desertdawg

Member
I really like the idea of expandability, and using tabs or even separate pages would be fine I think...
The ability to update/upgrade with an Internet connection is a major plus!
 
aviator

aviator

Member
Right now the big problem with adding functionality is running out of space for additional code. Here are a few photos of the unit (finally)
This is a rough-out of how the display will look. This unit was hand-cut, but the production units will obviously be cnc machined for a much nicer look. Still this can give you a good scale of the touchscreen and it's enclosure (compared to my hand).


Temporarily mounted to the hood on my (very dirty, I'm sorry to say) 55 gallon tank - this is my test tank. It's running the lights, the skimmer and the fan on this tank and has been for several weeks.

This is the proof of concept main box, as you can see, only three things are plugged in right now. The three plugs on top are the three items I have plugged into the unit right now (in this picture from left to right - Hood Fan, 400W Metal Halide, CF Actinics). There is a black cord coming out of the box right at my hand. That is the main cord that plugs into the wall and supplies power to the sockets. The white cord coming out at the lower left side of the box is the temperature probe. to the right of that is the black/gray cord that goes to the touchscreen. If you look closely on the side opposite of my hand, you can see where the 12v wall cube is plugged in. There are only 4 plugs on this unit simply because that's all the space there was in this box (and this box was handy, so I used it) - the final box will be an unassuming black box. Obviously there are no stickers on anything with the name, but the finished products will have the logo on it.

So there you have it. the photos aren't great, but at least you can now see scale.
 
aviator

aviator

Member
No, theres no place to store a stylus. I don't plan on shipping a stylus with it. It's large enough that your finger works just as well of not better.
the final main box will have mouting tabs on either side so it can be mounted on the wall or whatever with screws.
 
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