Paid to care?

yearofthenick

yearofthenick

Active Member
Hey does anyone think at all about this? Pastors/Ministers make it their full-time job to "shepherd" their church. This has generally been considered an act of service, and I agree with that.
But does anyone ever feel like maybe it's wrong for that church to pay the pastor just to care? I mean, we can look at it any number of ways. They may already care a lot, and the paycheck only comes out of a response to their service to the church.
OR maybe they are just looking for a way to have an income and be lazy. I've worked in full-time ministry for nearly 10 years. I've met pastors who have refused paychecks because it inhibits their ministry, and they work non-stop to help those around them. I've also met pastors who demand at least $135k/yr from their 200-member congregation and barely work for it.
What do you guys think?
Discuss.
 
meowzer

meowzer

Moderator
I work for a church...and as a "Pastors" only job....they have to live too.....I do not see them getting rich off what a church pays (believe me the staff doesn't :( )
In reality Pastors have a very hard job (when committed)....I have seen then have to run every day to be by the side of some one....
I have worked with 3 different pastors.....2 were great...24/7....they were there for whatever....1....should have been an associate as that person was only there when it was convenient...or necessary
 
louti

louti

Member
Well, I guess if a pastor couldn't afford to live and support his family, he wouldn't be much use to his congregation. I'm sure there are pastors who do it for the wrong reasons, but these are the minority. My pastor is not a rich man. In fact, I don't think that many are.
 
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dragonzim

Active Member
My father was on the board of directors and was president of the congregation of their Temple for a number of years. I know for a fact that the Rabbi gets paid well over 150K a year plus expenses and he also probably makes almost that much over again in cash that is given as gifts for doing weddings, funerals and barbat mitzvahs and the like.
Its all business. Anyone who says otherwise is ignorant. They are in the business of selling a dream and a faith.
 
meowzer

meowzer

Moderator
Originally Posted by DragonZim
http:///forum/post/3192590
My father was on the board of directors and was president of the congregation of their Temple for a number of years. I know for a fact that the Rabbi gets paid well over 150K a year plus expenses and he also probably makes almost that much over again in cash that is given as gifts for doing weddings, funerals and barbat mitzvahs and the like.
Its all business. Anyone who says otherwise is ignorant. They are in the business of selling a dream and a faith.
They don't make anything like that around here....I'm not ignorant either
Some preachers are actually in it cause that is what their life leads them to do....I have seen both.....
 
rlablan

rlablan

Active Member
Everything at my church was very public.
There was a rotating group of people who would count all donations and everything given to the church. The pastors bills were paid for by someone other than him, so there was no underhandedness and there was not really a way for him to take money or buy things that were not really deemed appropriate by the church.
I had been to his house. It was modest, and in a nice part of town. Really, the only exuberant thing he had was a rather large big screen, but it wasn't even a plasma or an LCD.
He and his wife both drove used cars, a used toyota truck and a used maxima. Both were base models.
I think it just depends on how the church is set up, honestly. I know our pastor basically got a set amount of money, EVERY month, for the rest of forever... And if there was a raise to be had, then it had to come to a church wide vote. They had like meetings and discussions for it.
I know for many years, the youth pastor and main pastor of the church worked at a Starbucks as baristas on weekends if they wanted extra money, or things like vacations or house remodels...
They lived nicely, but they didn't drive hummers or live in a 5000 sq ft home.
 
louti

louti

Member
Originally Posted by DragonZim
http:///forum/post/3192590
My father was on the board of directors and was president of the congregation of their Temple for a number of years. I know for a fact that the Rabbi gets paid well over 150K a year plus expenses and he also probably makes almost that much over again in cash that is given as gifts for doing weddings, funerals and barbat mitzvahs and the like.
Its all business. Anyone who says otherwise is ignorant. They are in the business of selling a dream and a faith.
You are ignorant if you think all religious leaders are in it for money. Just because your rabbi takes a big salary and cash gifts, you think that all do? My pastor wouldn't stay at a member's vacation home because he didn't think it looked right. He doesn't make anywhere near 150k and doesn't take "gifts." And, he has a very large church, too. Again, I know there are people in it for the wrong reasons, but not all, not even most.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by DragonZim
http:///forum/post/3192590
My father was on the board of directors and was president of the congregation of their Temple for a number of years. I know for a fact that the Rabbi gets paid well over 150K a year plus expenses and he also probably makes almost that much over again in cash that is given as gifts for doing weddings, funerals and barbat mitzvahs and the like.
Its all business. Anyone who says otherwise is ignorant. They are in the business of selling a dream and a faith.

A Rabbi has a doctorate degree, he has studied all his life to get where he is. Most professors make that kind of money, and they get extra for doing anything they do beyond the regular business day. Not all Rabbis make that kind of money…it depends on the size of the synagogue and its members.
A Rabbi is far more than a religious leader. He is a teacher of teachers.
Christian leaders don’t even have to go to school depending on the sect of religion. Some go to a monastery for a year and are good to go. I am talking about formal training, not a person who has been in church all their lives and considers that all a part of the education.
Jewish children from tiny hood to Bar/Bat Mitzvah learn Hebrew, and how to run a service. If they want, to they can continue the education with Hebrew school in the Synagogue…THEN they move on to formal training.
Comparing a church preacher to a Rabbi is an insult. It is like comparing a Sunday school teacher to a professor of theology.
The Synagogue will let you know up front what it cost to be part of the community. Money is for the Rabbi, the teachers, the helpers, the building and the care of it, the daily needs of material for the school, and the light and gas bills...Just to start.
The average Torah scroll costs over $10.000.00 it is hand written by Rabbis who take a Mikvah (spiritual bath/baptism) and are spiritually pure before even coping it, which takes years to complete. A Torah service can’t be done without one.
You can start a church with a Bible and two other people. They take an offering and insist that of all the Law that they believe Jesus did away with…they kept their own version of tithes. They want a whopping 10% of all income of the congregation. Preachers are taught that they are entitled to the 10%. They really believe it, they are not trying to rip the congregation off.
If any Christian could grasp what the tithe even was, they would feel insulted at such a request from a preacher. If the preacher really understood, and was a good man (some are) they would be ashamed. Church is big business and most Preachers they know it.
A synagogue is a learning institution, besides a place to join in worship. You can compare it to a college or university, but never a church. A college or university is indeed big business. They pay dearly for the professors knowledge.
 
meowzer

meowzer

Moderator
Christian leaders don’t even have to go to school depending on the sect of religion
Both Catholic and Methodist priests and preachers have to go thru a lengthy course of study and HAVE DEGREES....(do not know about others)
Do you realize that "Tithes" do not go to the preacher......what do you think pays the electric bills, the water, gas.....also it goes back into the church and the community...and the salary the "secretary" (LOL) makes.....it pays for music, instrument repair, roofs when needed, glass when one gets broken out, candles, I could go on and on and on...but I think you get the point
I will compare a Rabbi to a priest or an educated minister anyday...anywhere...anytime
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
If a Rabbi living in Santa Monica is making 150K they aren't living a lavish lifestyle. It all really depends. If someone is heading a large well financed congregation I can see providing a certain level of a lifestyle. They still need to provide for their financial future for their family so like any other employment position they must make the best deal they can. In many cases this has required college education and a whole lot of work to earn degrees etc. so why shouldn't they also earn a decent living?
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3192745

A Rabbi has a doctorate degree, he has studied all his life to get where he is. Most professors make that kind of money, and they get extra for doing anything they do beyond the regular business day. Not all Rabbis make that kind of money…it depends on the size of the synagogue and its members.
A Rabbi is far more than a religious leader. He is a teacher of teachers.
Christian leaders don’t even have to go to school depending on the sect of religion. Some go to a monastery for a year and are good to go. I am talking about formal training, not a person who has been in church all their lives and considers that all a part of the education.
Jewish children from tiny hood to Bar/Bat Mitzvah learn Hebrew, and how to run a service. If they want, to they can continue the education with Hebrew school in the Synagogue…THEN they move on to formal training.
Comparing a church preacher to a Rabbi is an insult. It is like comparing a Sunday school teacher to a professor of theology.
The Synagogue will let you know up front what it cost to be part of the community. Money is for the Rabbi, the teachers, the helpers, the building and the care of it, the daily needs of material for the school, and the light and gas bills...Just to start.
The average Torah scroll costs over $10.000.00 it is hand written by Rabbis who take a Mikvah (spiritual bath/baptism) and are spiritually pure before even coping it, which takes years to complete. A Torah service can’t be done without one.
You can start a church with a Bible and two other people. They take an offering and insist that of all the Law that they believe Jesus did away with…they kept their own version of tithes. They want a whopping 10% of all income of the congregation. Preachers are taught that they are entitled to the 10%. They really believe it, they are not trying to rip the congregation off.
If any Christian could grasp what the tithe even was, they would feel insulted at such a request from a preacher. If the preacher really understood, and was a good man (some are) they would be ashamed. Church is big business and most Preachers they know it.
A synagogue is a learning institution, besides a place to join in worship. You can compare it to a college or university, but never a church. A college or university is indeed big business. They pay dearly for the professors knowledge.
This was one of the most ignorant posts I have ever read.
 
D

dragonzim

Active Member

Originally Posted by meowzer
http:///forum/post/3192755
Christian leaders don’t even have to go to school depending on the sect of religion
Both Catholic and Methodist priests and preachers have to go thru a lengthy course of study and HAVE DEGREES....(do not know about others)
Do you realize that "Tithes" do not go to the preacher......what do you think pays the electric bills, the water, gas.....also it goes back into the church and the community...and the salary the "secretary" (LOL) makes.....it pays for music, instrument repair, roofs when needed, glass when one gets broken out, candles, I could go on and on and on...but I think you get the point
I will compare a Rabbi to a priest or an educated minister anyday...anywhere...anytime
Churches get their bills paid by the diocese that they are a member of do they not? I know for a fact that the local diocese where I live is who is paying out all the lawsuits for the $ex abuse cases against priests.. The diocese then in turn gets its money from higher up in the chain, all the way back to the vatican, which is among the most wealthiest institutions in the world.
 
D

dragonzim

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3192761
This was one of the most ignorant posts I have ever read.
Give an example of what you think is ignorant on it. Being brought up Jewish myself, I agree with what Flower is saying. The only difference is that I know the Rabbi from my parents temple has an honorary doctorate and not a full blown one, but I know he has multiple Masters degrees that he earned the hard way.
 
meowzer

meowzer

Moderator
Originally Posted by DragonZim
http:///forum/post/3192782
Churches get their bills paid by the diocese that they are a member of do they not? I know for a fact that the local diocese where I live is who is paying out all the lawsuits for the $ex abuse cases against priests.. The diocese then in turn gets its money from higher up in the chain, all the way back to the vatican, which is among the most wealthiest institutions in the world.
IDK about the Catholic church...never worked for one LOL
the Methodist church (and all others) that I work for..pays it's own bills.....the conference pays nothing....
I also work part time for a Baptist church...I dl all their finances, and they also pay all their own bills....no help from any conference either
(p.s.....Baptist preachers do not HAVE to have a degree, although the one in the church I work p/t for does by his own choice)
 
D

dragonzim

Active Member
Originally Posted by louti
http:///forum/post/3192731
You are ignorant if you think all religious leaders are in it for money. Just because your rabbi takes a big salary and cash gifts, you think that all do? My pastor wouldn't stay at a member's vacation home because he didn't think it looked right. He doesn't make anywhere near 150k and doesn't take "gifts." And, he has a very large church, too. Again, I know there are people in it for the wrong reasons, but not all, not even most.
Maybe he doesnt make a huge salary, I never stated that all priests and rabbis are in it for the money, but to treat either a church or a synagogue as something other than a business entity which is in the business of faith is dumb. The more congregants, or customers, they have, the more well off the business becomes.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by meowzer
http:///forum/post/3192785
IDK about the Catholic church...never worked for one LOL
the Methodist church (and all others) that I work for..pays it's own bills.....the conference pays nothing....
I also work part time for a Baptist church...I dl all their finances, and they also pay all their own bills....no help from any conference either
(p.s.....Baptist preachers do not HAVE to have a degree, although the one in the church I work p/t for does by his own choice)

They get a degree in theology, it takes 1 to 2 years.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by DragonZim
http:///forum/post/3192783
Give an example of what you think is ignorant on it. Being brought up Jewish myself, I agree with what Flower is saying. The only difference is that I know the Rabbi from my parents temple has an honorary doctorate and not a full blown one, but I know he has multiple Masters degrees that he earned the hard way.
"Christian leaders don't even have to go to school depending on the sect"
I don't know a lot of Jewish folk but I do know a Rabbi who has no formal college education. He calls himself rabbi and leads a congregation, much like some lay people call themselves preacher. I have personally known maybe a dozen preachers in my time. 3 Southern Baptists who all held doctorates, 2 Evangelicals with multiple masters and a 3rd with a doctorate. In fact the only ones I can think of with no Formal education lead something more like a bible study than a church.
To say Rabbis are somehow in a class above preachers is pretty lame.
 
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