-=Political Opinions=-

krowleey

Active Member

Originally posted by jlem
Alright, I am all about opinions but you are so full of crap on this one is it rediculous. Have you been over seas and where have you been ( besides flying into an airport )? Actually you could mention where you have been and you would obviously be full of crap because americans work less than any other countries citizens execpt for the oil countries of the middle east.
You can't possibly prove me wrong because I have been all around the world and seen how hard people and even kids work. I like debating with you Tony but you are just so far off on this one it is rediculous

i personally like the mexico comment made :hilarious
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Actually Iraq under previous government was secular and wearing robes and viels were not imposed upon women or anyone. Saddam was bascailly Godless and used religion as needed when it suited him. Not to say that people were not treated horribly, just that women and viels was not an issue here.
We went to war in Iraq because it was presented to us that there were weapons of mass distruction there and that Iraq was in violation of sanctions imposed after Gulf War 1. Now that there appears not to be any weapons of mass destruction [or at least not that we found yet] the goal in Iraq has changed to liberation of oppressed people.
I seriously doubt that liberating anyone is the primary goal, though it might be a nice by-product. Especally if we can make the "liberated" people USA-Friendly. I'm not saying I oppose that, just that that is the way it is. Altruism has no bearing, except to justify it to Americans [since we didn't find the weapons]. People are more likely to support altruistic causes than political ones.
 

tony detroit

Active Member

Originally posted by jlem
Alright, I am all about opinions but you are so full of crap on this one is it rediculous. Have you been over seas and where have you been ( besides flying into an airport )? Actually you could mention where you have been and you would obviously be full of crap because americans work less than any other countries citizens execpt for the oil countries of the middle east.
You can't possibly prove me wrong because I have been all around the world and seen how hard people and even kids work. I like debating with you Tony but you are just so far off on this one it is rediculous

London, Scotland,

[hr]
, All over Germany, Austria, etc. Yes I have been places.
Compare the average citizen workweek in each country and you will see you are wrong. Try France, Scotland, New Zealand for a few.
 

tony detroit

Active Member

Originally posted by ka0z4allu
It is easy to have things given to you, but when you sacrifice the enjoyment off seeing your children off to bed and waking up with them in the morning just to give them simple things in life then sometimes it makes you wonder just how this great country might be a little better off if we weren't so $ hungry, and took the time to enjoy what really is important. :nope:

Exactly.
Jlem do you have anything positive to say about this?
 

tony detroit

Active Member

Originally posted by jlem
And this is the goverments fault or is it the path that your family has took. It's everybodies fault but yours isn't it. It's Mcdonalds fault because their coffee was to hot and your neighbors fault because you tripped on his property. Take responsability and work to make it better. No body can make you fail but yourself.

The fault lies with poor decision making of government officials, such as the Detroit Public Schools CEO recently spending 60,000 on office furniture for his own office. That's right. One office. Yet at the same time public education students in Detroit have books published in the 60's.
My life is fine. I am fine. I live like a king. My belly is full. The problem that I have is more people should be living better, instead they have to ride the bus to work in the morning and barely have enough money at the end of the week to make the electric bill. Don't think I am underprivelidged.
In 20-30 yrs you will see where my comments hold validity.
In the meantime sorry if I offended you jlem, but I have arguments that I feel are valid. And as far as the hot coffee goes, I wish it was hotter, I'm not one of those people out looking for handouts. When I'm working outside in the winter my coffee gets cold in about half an hour.:)
 

tony detroit

Active Member

Originally posted by krowleey
If there is a better system please step up and explain it, and do something about it, after all you do live in a free country where you have freedom of speech and have rights....

Go to D.C. and stand on a podium with 1 million protestors and say how you want to overthrow the government officials like what recently happened in Spain for their poor decision making and let me know how long you make it without being arrested.
Then come back on this board and tell me how you are "free".
 

schneidts

Active Member

Originally posted by jlem
Alright, I am all about opinions but you are so full of crap on this one is it rediculous. Have you been over seas and where have you been ( besides flying into an airport )? Actually you could mention where you have been and you would obviously be full of crap because americans work less than any other countries citizens execpt for the oil countries of the middle east.

Actually, it's a pretty well known fact that americans work more than most other people, especially european countries. In Europe, they have average vacations of 2 months(from what I've heard-dont qoute me), and have much shorter work weeks. I think we live in an awesome country, the best on earth, in fact. Our system may not be perfect, but it works pretty well. On the other hand, I think it is the job of the citizens to discuss and disagree on the workings of their govt. This is how progress is made.
 

tony detroit

Active Member
Here's some facts to consider Jlem-
-Germans get 6 weeks their first year of work.
-They also get national healthcare.
-I will never see 6 weeks of vacation. People working for some companies won't even see one.
-There are over 48million Americans without healthcare
 

harlequin

Member
I always love going head to head with liberal scum. First off beleive lttle to nothing you read or hear in the media, its so biased to the left it will make you cry. For example Kerry's daughter was in Caannes Film Festival recently wearing a see through black dress, showed everything down to the lack of bra andwhite panties she had on underneith. Thats something I know I heard nothing on on any of the news agencies. If it was Bush's daughters doing that then it would have been frontpage scandel on every newpaper in the country.
That said Tony, you mentioned well off European countries, try the not so well off countries that comprise most of the planet. I too have been all over the world to many of those crappy planets. Those third world countries work their butts off to make ends meet. I saw an interview one time back when sweatshops were big news with some people in India. They were confused about why Americans were protesting them in other countries when US company-owned sweatshops pay better than the local companies. Another reason that many immigrants are greatly successful be they Indians with conveniant stores or Mexicans with construction companies. They still have the work intensive mindset they had at home that they needed to make ends meet. Americans are spoiled because they dont know how good they have it compared to the rest of the world. In addition you have left wing protesters always making the (liberal)news. They do not represent the majority of America, many of them are paid to be there by the deep coffers of non-profit organizations and thus do not have to do real work.
There is much good going on in those countries we have freed, in Afghanistan you have children back in school again, the system working and the people much better off than they were several years ago. In Iraq we just had a large load of toys and educational supplies dropped off by the military to thankful kids and parents. Bet you havent seen that on the news, lord knows you cant have the media showing positive results of the administration.
Sure the system isnt fixed yet there. You have an entire subsect of people there who long for the old days of Islam back in the days of Mohammed when they went town to town killing any who didnt immediatly convert(read your history, Islam started as a bloody and murderous religion). Saddem kept these evil factions in check through his own reign of terror. Unfortunately these bloody sects see this change of power to go back to the old ways and will willingly do anything to do it since their religious leaders tell their uneducated minions that dieig for their religion is honorable and will be rewarded in heaven by virgins and boys. You cannot rationalize with these people, thats the only mistake I see the current admin making.
Bush is not the smartest cookie in the bowl but he is highly qualified for his job and has done a good job. I am not quite sure what degrees he has but I saw a list a while back and he and his staffs' credentials were quite extensive, way more than a simple Buddy system would account for. He hasnt done that great for the environment I will agree, but he has had much to contend with. Plus as a member of the miltary, you couldnt pay me to vote democrat since they screw the military over every chance they get.
 

tony detroit

Active Member

Originally posted by Harlequin
In Iraq we just had a large load of toys and educational supplies dropped off by the military to thankful kids and parents. Bet you havent seen that on the news, lord knows you cant have the media showing positive results of the administration.

That is a poor excuse for a war.
BUSH FOR WORLD SHERIFF 2005, cast your vote!
This country could be much better. I agree with you Harlequin, no government will ever be perfect and you have valid points. My problem is that we are wasting valuable time and money on things that will not help the whole american public, when we could have used minimal effort and corrected many problems we have in this country.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Western European countries are basically Democratic Socialist countries whose citizens pay out the wazzo in taxes. Heck, you don't have to go across the Atlantic for that...Canada is right here.
Thus, praising Europe for their six wks of vaction and 30 hrs of week and then complaining about taxes and too much government is like comparing apples to rocks.
I wouldn't want to work much either if 50% of my money went to taxes. :D Those same countires have single car per home as well a 1 TV per home, etc. In other words, they generally don't have the same materialistic standard of living we have. Heck, do you know anyone who only has 1 TV? If we lowered our standard of living to the "basics" we probably would not have to work beyond 40 hrs a week. Frankly, I don't see a whole happening in Europe to progress. Face it, if anything at all is happening in the way of "progress", inventions, etc. it is here.
Its so funny. The left swears that the media is bought and paid for by the Bush administration and the right says its the liberal media. :rolleyes:
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Please do not let this discussion deteriorate into name calling or hatefulness. No discussion ever benefit from that happening.
We can have very different opinions and still respect each other as people. After all, we are all here because we all love our fish tanks, not because of our politics.
 
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daniel411

Guest
Come on now, this attacking people instead of argueing ideas is just foolish. In any debate when someone stops debating a counter point or main pillars of the opposing parties view point, resorting instead to attack the others personal character instead, thats the clearest signal of losing an argument.
These kind of discussions are awesome when we can not take counter views personally, and can just share thoughts and ideas. We can learn so much from each others diverse array of backgrounds, experiences, etc. Lets try and keep it that way.
 

sammystingray

Active Member
I personally have to question the intelligence of anyone who thinks the government cares about them at all. You never even hear their thoughts or their own words.....they just read speeches someone else wrote and the advisors thought would get votes.......they are crap. Every word you ever heard GB say was not his own, so why quote him? He doesn't think for himself, he just makes faces and reads what someone else wrote word for word because appearantly he doesn't have the intelligernce to even speak.......don't worry though, no politicians ever speak their own words......basically due to the fear they are too dumb not to mess it up.
They are salesmen......selling you lies. The lucky break for them is that the average American IQ is low enough for them to get away with it. Anyone who puts faith in a government really should think hard about human nature, and how people with even the slightest bit of authority abuse it......
I sometimes wonder why people don't realize every word out his mouth, and the next prez for that matter, is nothing but spun and polished crap. It's all about money...everything is about money......religion, politics, media, work, cars, loans, education, roles in life, EVERYTHING is about money......greed.
Anyone who thinks otherwise gives humans too much credit. There are of course people who really don't care about money, but do care about the world.......they are pushed aside and stepped on and don't even factor in the world. Just my opinions.
 

fshhub

Active Member

Originally posted by tony detroit
Here's some facts to consider Jlem-
-Germans get 6 weeks their first year of work.
-They also get national healthcare.
-I will never see 6 weeks of vacation. People working for some companies won't even see one.
-There are over 48million Americans without healthcare

i am not going to argue here, just correct you a second.
most germans get 6 weeks. however it is not mandated. 4 weeks is mandated, BY LAW. Most of europe is like this, just ask wal-mart. As to the work week, most countries average a shorter week than us. yes we recognize a 40 hr work week but most of us never work it. our avg week is actually 58 hrs. wehreas most of europe is less than 40.
and i have been to equally as many countries, and other than jsut a 10 minute layover. My information comes from school and recent news articles which i had collected for school.
Walmart was nearly run out of germany for vacation and pricing reasons. the german gov't protected its own. shortly after opening, they came in and gave good ole wally world an ultimatum. EITHER raise their prices to be competitive and not destroy the local shops, AND give all employees 4 weeks vacation time as a base. OR leave immediately. NO choice, NO negotiation, NO chance to even debate the issue. and lastly, had they not complied it would have been no second chances either. Now, that is how govt should work. looking otu for its own. In america(i do love her), we would never look out for the local shops in fact we encourage their demise.
 
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daniel411

Guest
Safety Laws
I'm in the agreement that they should be enforced up till a certain age. 16 or so for seatbelts, and till 18 or so for motorcycle helmets. Beyond that, although I personally pretty much always wear a seat belt... and for bikes... I don't even like riding without leathers w/ built in body armor. But I don't think that it should be mandated. Statistically (according to the AMA) more motorcyclist have a higher percentage of carrying health insurance than the average automobile driver. So one can't presume that its likely to cost tax-payer dollars more so than anything else. On top of that, atleast Michigan has a catastrophic claims fund for any serious life time injuries thats tacked on to your insurance payments. So the states shielded even more so.
What really confuses me a bit though is why are the insurance lobbiest pushing these laws on us? "To my understanding" the insurance industry is based around the premise of useing premiums as simply interest free loans to make other investments. Granted 75% (usual state minimum) are given back out in claims with usually around 25% being allocated for administrative fees, commissions, and "sometimes" a small profit margin. With that being the case such as it may be, it would be ideal for them to increase the claims... thereby increasing their investment capital and administrative fees. Can anyone explain what I'm missing?
While I understand people stating that those who "don't" wear seat belts or helmets should pay a higher insurance premium. We shouldn't want the insurance companies to not pay, as than the tax payers are likely to pay. I think we should look at other options, such as possibly having them on "higher risk" policies for "X" number of years after they make a claim and weren't wearing protection. Beth
I'm not sure how it works in your state, but in Michigan you can have a doctors note stating that you are exempt from needing to wear a safety belt for the reasons you've mentioned.
As for the government being experts, I suggesst reading "Gimme A Break" by John Stossel, great book that relates to the subject. Also remember what Patrick Henry wrote about when he wrote one of the rallying cries that became synomous with our countries Revolution "GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH". That was just after seeing "governmental" safety laws run amok by the "experts". A man was whipped till his bones shown for not having a "license" to be a minister! We need to be so incredibly careful when the government introduces safety regulations and licenses. Its so often becomes a subtle government takeover where something becomes criminal in which ordinarily would be harmless. IT TURNS A RIGHT INTO A PRIVILEGE! Look at who the expert panels the government so often appoints. In michigan the "Mobile Home Commission" is staffed completely with lobbiest appointed members of the mobile home industry! OSHA is another amazng group of government "experts" they're so expert that in the few cases companies take them to court their own experts often can't even agree on things.
Medical/Pharmaceutical Industry

Look at how much, particularly in the past few years, we see adds for prescrition drugs. Now look at how much those companies spend on advertising for Doctors! The figures are available if you look around, it paints a pretty stark picture! The test after test thats so often being performed could partially be attributed to doctors covering themselves from frivulous lawsuits.
..... well, its late, just got home from work and I'm tired. Good night everyone :)
 
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daniel411

Guest
Fshhub
If you happen to have a list compiled of what you've mentioned above, would you mind forwarding it to me? No worries if it would be any trouble or is scattered in your personal school work.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Yes, that speech-writing point that sammy refers to is the biggest joke of all. How many presidential speeches have made the history books as being great? How many speeches have been attributed to motivating world events? And yet, everyone knows or should know that a “government employee” who no body even knows wrote it. Presidents use teleprompters to read the speeches wrote for them.
I have to say that politically I am registered as an independent. I vote conscious not party. I truly wish that everybody in this country would stop thinking “party”. This is the USA not the USSR. We give way too much power and money to political parties. If we all actually supported the candidate themselves for what they stood for, then we would:
Break the stranglehold that the 2 parties have in this country
As a people we would not polarize ourselves into left/right, liberal/conservative we would just support who and what we believe in.
Return power to the people rather than special interest.
I actually know people who will vote party even though they don’t like the candidate! Parties vie for your vote and will lie to get it. Everyone needs to wake up and get back to making our government work for the people.
Sometimes I think people need to affiliate themselves with a certain group to have some sense of “belonging”. The only one that will ever care about you is your family and, maybe, you very close friends.
As to Europe and how great is it over there. Keep in mind that the countries that we are talking about are SOCIALIST countries. Where will Germany or France or even England be in 50 yrs with that kind of work ethic? This country is great because the people in it work their behinds off. If we sit back and enjoy all of our accomplishments on our butts then our edge with be gone in a heartbeat.
The best thing we can do for ourselves and the country is to start thinking for ourselves, instead of listening and living by propaganda. Make the politicians work for us, not allow them to instill in us their ideology. Wake-up people and take back your power as a free citizen of the greatest country in the world.
 

tony detroit

Active Member

Originally posted by sammystingray
They are salesmen......selling you lies. The lucky break for them is that the average American IQ is low enough for them to get away with it.

Say it aint so....
But they smile really big and wave at me on the television!
 
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