-=Political Opinions=-

[orion7]

http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/6243
Just a parallel I found interesting. Since I have decided not to vote at all this year. I thought others might find this to be of interest to them.
"TomPaine.com takes inspiration from Thomas Paine—the revolutionary thinker and activist known for his incisive, biting commentaries. His most famous pamphlet, Common Sense, mobilized public opinion in support of the American Revolution. Widely available and written in powerful and accessible prose, the pamphlet appealed to a broad cross section of people, from farmers to bankers. Invoking the democratic spirit, Paine famously argued that "the cause of America is in a great measure the cause of all mankind." Our work at TomPaine.com is fueled by that sentiment every day. "

 

[dicemanj]

Tony D.
Why do you not move out of the country? because you can't get the same paying job, the same job that you have to work 80 hours a week to pay bills? That just doesn't seem right. Yet you are smarter than our President with a degree from Yale, but not smart enough to find a better job, or better place to live. It must be rough being you with all the anger. Don't you have a nice fish tank, at least you can afford that.
I do not doubt that you work extremely hard, but it just seems that if you truly beleive there is a much better place you should pack up and move. Do you have kids, don't you owe it to them to move and let them grow up in a better country.
Good luck,
my .02, I love the country we live in.

 

[tony detroit]

Maybe if you read all of my posts you would have realized my life is fine. I'm mad about the parents that don't get to see their kids grow up. I'm mad about the retired people that cannot pay their property tax alone on social security to live in the very house they worked all their years for. I'm pissed about the kids in Detroit public schools that will graduate without a prayer. I'm dissappointed about the woman that gets up at 4 a.m. to ride the bus to work, yet at the end of the week she has to decide, diapers or food...... I can go all day if you like.
If you think this country doesn't have some VERY serious issues to be resolved then you need to read up.

 

[tony detroit]

Originally posted by dicemanj
Yet you are smarter than our President with a degree from Yale, but not smart enough to find a better job, or better place to live.
Our fearless leader, so called "expert" (thanks jlem) wrecked a mountain bike this weekend, wearing a mouthguard and a helmet and still got banged up.
Yes people, you read that correctly. The man with the keys to the country, the man running the show, that man that cannot ride a bicycle.
Wow, he's one smart cookie. I guess the fact that his dad was president and his family is highly involved in politics has nothing to do with him being there.....nooo, he would have made it there by himself no problem....

 

[tony detroit]

Originally posted by dicemanj
Do you have kids, don't you owe it to them to move and let them grow up in a better country.

No, and I really do not want to have kids to support this system of corruption.

 

[tony detroit]

Orion7-Nice link. I forgot about reading that book, going back a long time.

 

[daniel411]

No offense but a degree has little to do with intelligence. Any reasonably intelligent person can earn one. Than again, if you look at how he was in school... sniff sniff... his grades were horrendous. He only went to Yale do to who he was related too, not by his own deeds.
I too love the country we live in. However I love what it "could" be, and what it once was, not the perversion of the constitution and its earlier history. Its been a snowball effect thats accumulated to the point where we're at now, if we don't get back on track it will be hard to maintail us being "the" super power and the lifestyles so many of us enjoy.
I've personally, very seriously considered leaving the US. Is it not better though to try and repair it?
We know our legal system has major problems. Jefferson warned about this, as other writers of the constituion, stating that its likely to be attacked over the ages and warned us to be watchful of it-as a summary. Well, we haven't heeded those warnings. Some of the most successful trial-tort lawyers in America have openly spoke about the problems that exist in our courts. Should we just sit back and say "aww... well its still a pretty good system" or should we try and do whats "RIGHT"? Regardless of how amok the courts become, however horrible a law is made, we have some incredible abilities that supercede congress and the president! Trial by Jury is intended to give us the power twice!!! There are some incredible court cases I'd post, but I'm still researching them myself, that explain this better.
Can we really defend politicians when they're caught doing wrong? Regardless, most of us know in our consciounce(sp?) right from wrong. Yet its so easy to be blinded by our disbelief... How many parents get angry when someone accuses their child of mischief even if they know its true? When people get to the point of where they're disregard the facts, issues, reason... oh boy.
LOL, yeah I about died laughing when I heard Kerry say "Did he forget his training wheels!" regarding Bush's accident.. Than I felt a bit sad, that someone who'd be that viscious might be the next president... and didn't he have a bike accident about six months ago!!!!!!!!!! Guess that the situation "flipped"

I'll agree that the current administration saved the economy for the "day"! But whats better, having dinner on the plate today, or for years to come? As what was done to save it has some incredible costs... the piper has to be paid, and if you can see it starting to demand payment already. Lets just hope the asian central banks and the bank of japan bail us out again!

 

[dicemanj]

Last I checked I did not know there was a correlation betweem riding a bike, and running a country, but I do find it funny.
I am not sayiny that our country is perfect, and there are exceptional cases to where people got "screwed". But most of the examples you just gave could be fixed by the individual. For most of the kids in the detroit local school system, if they work hard enough and put forth the effort they can be very successful, though it may be harder for them than others.
For the mother that gets up at 4am in the morning and can't afford to feed her kids, I do feel sorry, but at the same time that person better not be smoking, drinking, or wasting money on anything else.
Most people bring on hardships themselves in one way or another.

 

[ka0z4allu]

And isn't it a sad situation that this president injures himself while on vacation, Again! Wish I had a chance to do a little mountain biking, but I don't because I have to work so many hours just to keep my families head above water. This guy has time for a 17 mile bike ride while there is a war going on? Something isn't right here.

 

[tony detroit]

Originally posted by dicemanj
Last I checked I did not know there was a correlation betweem riding a bike, and running a country, but I do find it funny.

Look at my avatar. Now THAT is how you ride a bike.
Don't get me wrong diceman I like this country too, but if things don't change soon bad things will come, it is inevitable. I'm just lookin out. I want kids some day, and I want them to grow up in a good place.

 

[daniel411]

Originally posted by dicemanj
Last I checked I did not know there was a correlation betweem riding a bike, and running a country, but I do find it funny.
I am not sayiny that our country is perfect, and there are exceptional cases to where people got "screwed". But most of the examples you just gave could be fixed by the individual. For most of the kids in the detroit local school system, if they work hard enough and put forth the effort they can be very successful, though it may be harder for them than others.
For the mother that gets up at 4am in the morning and can't afford to feed her kids, I do feel sorry, but at the same time that person better not be smoking, drinking, or wasting money on anything else.
Most people bring on hardships themselves in one way or another.
Dicemanj, I'm honestly interested in your views and discussing. Please don't take any offense, none is meant.
Oh and yeah, I'm still cracking up at Bush's bike incident. Glad he wasn't hurt, but its just to funny, particularly with Kerry making fun of it when mere months ago he fell off of a bike.
Can we really insist that the "mother who gets up at 4am and can't afford to feed her kids" have perfect fiscal responsibility, discipline, and knowledge?
I raise funds and help organize a pretty good sized charitable fund that gives poor children a christmas and other events. I make, especially for having no kids, GREAT money. Yet, there are parents that pull up for christmas presents that driving better cars than I do? WTF? Should I be pissed? Or should I remember that I'm doing this for that child, who other wise probally wouldn't have much of a christmas as their parent(s) most likely have other priorities (selfish or not). How can we demand that the recipient of charity, whether it be from private or public funds have more accountability than most of us?
I won't go into statistics, but chances are many of us don't have 6 months expenses in a savings account, have our credit cards paid off every month, no department store cards, emergency and retirement savings other than corporate/government funds of any significant, etc. If thats the case, which statistically one could argue it is... than how can we afford swf tanks? Should we not stop paying for Instant Ocean when we still have a bank note on our trucks? The fiscal irresponsibility is the same, its just that are higher incomes are covering it up from being revealed.
While we should mandate counseling of basic money management... we can't hold them to the standard of being upset if they smoke, or have cable tv, atleast I don' think so. In fact, I feel sorry if thats the case for all of us.
As for the kids who grow up going to Detroit Public Schools... its no all that bad, of course someone can thrive anywhere. But those are the people who thrive regardless of where they are.

 

[daniel411]

Originally posted by ka0z4allu
And isn't it a sad situation that this president injures himself while on vacation, Again! Wish I had a chance to do a little mountain biking, but I don't because I have to work so many hours just to keep my families head above water. This guy has time for a 17 mile bike ride while there is a war going on? Something isn't right here.
I feel for you man. Its a shame that people can't work "just" 40-50 hours a week anymore and support a spouse and 2.3 (or whatever it is) kids in a "good" middle class neighborhood on a typical blue/white collar job any more. Thats whats so horrible.

 

[dicemanj]

Daniel - Tony, nice discussion so far, no offence taken here, hope I did not offend anyone.
I think everyone is entitled to a little time off work including GW to take a bike ride.
Daniel here are my views. pretty simple
I think people need to stand up and take care of themselves. Do not look for someone else to pay their way. I have a repectable job, married 3 kids, my wife also wathces a couple other kids during the day to help with bills. I am by no means rich, but have a nice house, cars, and have money to do what I want, while still maintaining a bank account.
If people want a better life, do something about it. It is not to late or impossible.
The other thing that bothers me is that people choose an occupation that can not support their lifestyle then complain about. If you need to make 100k a year to survive don't pick a 50k year occupation. I also see people that complain about not enough money, but yet the golf 2-3 times a week, go out for diner and lunch all the time. Sacrafices have to be made, pick and choose what is most important.
As far as people in other countries not working as much, I am no expert here, but do these people have the same luxury items we have, 2 cars, mutliple TVs with cable, fish tanks, bikes, motorcycles and such.
I do beleieve that there can be much improvement in our country, but i do think the government is doing what is best for the most part. One thing that boggles my mind is the smoking thing mentioned earlier, i do think this is ran by the government.
As far as this war, I think it is in the best interest of our country and for others. We had credible eveidence of WMD and we took action, maybe there were WMD maybe not, but we acted on the intelligence we had. If we would have acted on the intelligence before 9/11, NY would still be the same.
Any other topics to discuss, Daniel or Tony.
nice chatting.
dice

 

[tony detroit]

Originally posted by dicemanj
The other thing that bothers me is that people choose an occupation that can not support their lifestyle then complain about. If you need to make 100k a year to survive don't pick a 50k year occupation.
That is a good comment and one that I commonly used to make. One day I woke up and thought there is only X number of good jobs out there, period. And they are all taken. You must realize there is X number of jobs for the year that are "good paying". The rest are wal-mart, waiters, pizza-guy, jobs with no healthcare, retirement plan, education allowance, vacation, etc.
So at some point even if everybody with a drug habit came out of the slump and all went out and got college degrees there still would only be X number of "good" jobs available. Once all of those jobs were filled then the people that did not get them would be SOL. Do you understand my point now?
I heard a figure that if minimum wage increased at the same rate that the average CEO makes a year over the last 30 years then minimum wage would be $28 an hour or something cose to that.
Just some food for thought. You don't ever see ads in the paper for Wanted: CEO starting salary, $150,000. Must fly around in leer jet aimlessly, and be picked up in limousines. Those interested call:..............

 

[dicemanj]

150k for a ceo is extremely low, but consider this, if a ceo runs a company properly and that compny is successful and employs hundreds to thousands of people, money well spent.
I am not saying that there is a great job for everyone, but for the most part there are jobs avaialable. how about we wait until everyone makes an effort to find a job and all jobs are filled to worry about them. There is nothing wrong with waiters pizza drivers, ect. they can make a decent living, maybe not ideal for a large family, but two pizza drivers and one child could make it easily. If the effort was put into it.

 

[harlequin]

there isnt a great job for everyone, but one of the good things about the US is starting a business is relatively easy. Keeping it successful requires skill and ability. All it takes is some imagination, hard work and thinking outside the box. Not everyone is meant to have high paying good jobs though. Some people just cannot hack it, its not society's fault and society shouldnt have to pay for it but it does. On a darwinian note, survival of the fittest. These people are not the fittest, they survive and reproduce because society allows it. On occassion the offspring do well and making something of themselves. Hell if poorer people really want to get out of the dumps then join the military when they are young. Sure the pay isnt that outstanding but it pays much much better than flipping burgers. Besides joining the military is truly a way to earn their rights besides just taking them for granted like the majority of America does.

 

[schneidts]

Originally posted by dicemanj
There is nothing wrong with waiters pizza drivers, ect. they can make a decent living, maybe not ideal for a large family, but two pizza drivers and one child could make it easily. If the effort was put into it.
Maybe, but I hope none of them ever gets sick or injured...

 

[tony detroit]

Originally posted by schneidts
Maybe, but I hope none of them ever gets sick or injured...
Exactly. National Health Care needs to be brought to the table. However it must be done, it needs to happen.

 

[dicemanj]

I agree that something needs done with our health care, however alot of low paying jobs do still offer health care. Even with no health care, a job is a job.
Think about this, if all the people on gov assistance got jobs, we may be able to afford national health care?

 

[tony detroit]

The sad thing is we are already paying for it. I forget the actual percentage of gross pay that Canada takes out , like 3.9 or so, I can't remember the exact number, but it is not much at all, all things considered. Plus it would be a win for many employers, cutting our costs. BCBS( a self proclaimed non-profit healthcare provider, one of the best here) costs our company 800 per month for a man and his wife. If you have 20 working days/month, that is 40 a day. For 1 man. On 8 hr days, that is 5/hr. So now we pay our 40 a day for this guy, then when he gets his paycheck he gets taxed for medicaid, which he is NOT eldigible for. Yet wal-mart puts mom and pop shops out of business like a plague, has low prices and pays crap and offers ZERO career move. Wonder why their prices are low? Because they give their employees ****. They can cut all kinds of cost. Good to hear the German Government gave them a taste of what they need. Low prices are nice, but this is the kind of thing ruining America. I hate to get down on Wal-Mart, but paying people enough to barely buy bus tokens isn't cool. Work is not a hobby. We go to make money.