politics

[phixer]

Originally Posted by cwgibson
we live in the richest country? whats are debt again?
The national debt means nothing and will never go away, so you might as well put it into the same catagory as the ozone layer or global warming and accept it.
The wages paid to American workers are still higher in relation to the cost of living compaired to most coutries, however this is changing with the destructive practice of outsourcing, the rich become richer and the poor become poorer. I dont believe raising taxes to pay for more social programs is the answer though. Overpopulation is the root cause of poverty.

 

[cwgibson]

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Most workers have not seen wage gains keep pace with inflation during the current economic expansion, the first time that has happened since World War II, according to a published report.
The New York Times reports that the median hourly wage for American workers has declined 2 percent since 2003, after factoring in inflation. Median wages are the point at which equal numbers of workers earn more and less.
The paper reports that while average family income, adjusted for inflation, has continued to advance at a good clip, that has been helped by gains by the top wage earners.
The paper says that about nine out of 10 workers have seen inflation that has outpaced their pay increases over the last three years, according to the Labor Department. That includes workers earning up to $80,000 a year, a level that puts them in the 90th percentile of wage earners.
The paper reports that with employment gains softening in recent months, inflationary pressures stay high due to factors such as high energy prices, so the gap between wages and prices could increase for many workers.
The paper reports that the gap between the top wage earners and other workers is growing. It cites research from economists Emmanuel Saez and Thomas Piketty that showed that in 2004, the top 1 percent of earners --a group that includes many chief executives --received 11.2 percent of all wage income, up from 8.7 percent a decade earlier and less than 6 percent three decades ago.
In addition, corporate profits are growing more quickly than wages and salaries. Employee pay now makes up the lowest share of the nation's gross domestic product since the government began recording the data in 1947, according to the paper, while corporate profits have climbed to their highest share since the 1960s

 

[phixer]

Sure, just take a look at what Exxon/Mobile posted for profits last QTR, and since corporations account for 89% of business profits in the US it certainly makes sense, not right at 3 bucks a gallon but makes sense.
The average American middle class taxpayer is becoming crippled by the exorbant ammount of taxes we must pay to support programs we will never use. The wealthy elite shelter their income through corporations, the poor dont pay taxes. Who pays for all of the free handouts... the middle class taxpayer. The laffer curve indicates that eventually a person will get tired of being taxed and will see that working is futile when all of your wages are consumed by taxes, at this point productivity decreases and so will the wages since wages are based on productivity. Corporations use this principle now when determining profits, so they outsource labor.
Companies like Apple who have outsourced their labor to India are now moving to Pakistan because the labor rates in India are increasing. So whats the answer? Well securing our borders is a good start, this will lessen the strain somewhat, so would managing our explosive population growth and dependancy on foreign oil. Smaller government, lower taxes, the market system works.
Im a Libertarian and dont agree with either side completely.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Oceanists
Health insurance rates has nothing to do with the president....
Agreed... just responding to previous post.
Cw, what exactly is your point? Even your quoted article says "The paper reports that while average family income, adjusted for inflation, has continued to advance at a good clip, that has been helped by gains by the top wage earners."
I agree with much of what Phixer says... I'm certainly willing to point out the flaws in our country (borders, letting politicians fight our wars, welfare, SS, pork in every policy, outsourcing, "free trade", crime, etc.).
But to say "could the bush administration be any more wrong with anything they have done?" is just silly.
Everyone hates our country, yet so many try to move here.... No one likes our military, yet everytime the UN wants to send peacekeepers somewhere they want our troops. People complain about wages, then they expect the Fed. government to hand them things...
When exactly did we lose our American work ethic? When did we lose our pride in America? Can you imagine how WWII would have turned out if it would have been fought today? :notsure:
Travel a bit like I've had the privilege to and you'll see America is a great place to live...

 

[hot883]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
*Stock market at record highs
*More people own houses than ever before
*More people have health insurance than ever before
*Unemployment at almost record lows
*Cut taxes
*Haven't had a terrorist attack on our soil since 9-11....
Ya, life sucks to be an American...
Thank you for putting that so well. I can't stand people who dissrespect our President and blame him for everything that goes on. The media is worst. They never show the good that happens there. NEVER show it. But then again those men and women are there to protect those that disfavor the administration. Don't btich (had to spell it that way as the forum automatically edited it) about something if you are unwilling to DEFEND your right to say bad things. I served Our Country for 20 years. Don't get me started.

 

[sign guy]

Originally Posted by cwgibson
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Most workers have not seen wage gains keep pace with inflation during the current economic expansion, the first time that has happened since World War II, according to a published report.
The New York Times reports that the median hourly wage for American workers has declined 2 percent since 2003, after factoring in inflation. Median wages are the point at which equal numbers of workers earn more and less.
The paper reports that while average family income, adjusted for inflation, has continued to advance at a good clip, that has been helped by gains by the top wage earners.
The paper says that about nine out of 10 workers have seen inflation that has outpaced their pay increases over the last three years, according to the Labor Department. That includes workers earning up to $80,000 a year, a level that puts them in the 90th percentile of wage earners.
The paper reports that with employment gains softening in recent months, inflationary pressures stay high due to factors such as high energy prices, so the gap between wages and prices could increase for many workers.
The paper reports that the gap between the top wage earners and other workers is growing. It cites research from economists Emmanuel Saez and Thomas Piketty that showed that in 2004, the top 1 percent of earners --a group that includes many chief executives --received 11.2 percent of all wage income, up from 8.7 percent a decade earlier and less than 6 percent three decades ago.
In addition, corporate profits are growing more quickly than wages and salaries. Employee pay now makes up the lowest share of the nation's gross domestic product since the government began recording the data in 1947, according to the paper, while corporate profits have climbed to their highest share since the 1960s
nice cut and paste + do you really want to quote a news paper that has had more coruption and made up stories that days of the week?

 

[sign guy]

Originally Posted by cwgibson
we live in the richest country? whats are debt again?
every bit of the debt has been created by the bush admin. right?

 

[cwgibson]

i served too so big deal. i do love this country and that why i get so mad at what is going on with this administration. im not saying the democrats could do it any better they are all power hungry in my opinion.but bush had a personal war to fight with iraq and if you think that isnt right you are crazy.even his ex cabinet member confirmed that he had an attack plan to invade iraq before he was even elected.(cant think of the title of his book) what good has happend there? they are on the brink of civil war. i dont know what you guys are reading , if anything but you need to dig deeper because you arent even close.

 

[cwgibson]

actually since ww2 the main contribitors to the debt would be: reagan,bush,and bush.

 

[cwgibson]

Originally Posted by sign guy
nice cut and paste + do you really want to quote a news paper that has had more coruption and made up stories that days of the week?
ok so i guess all the info everyone is spitting out is from reputable media?
*Stock market at record highs- true
*More people own houses than ever before-forclosures are at record highs as well, but they did live there for awhile!
*More people have health insurance than ever before-try to buy some drugs for a reasonable price.
*Unemployment at almost record lows- 2.5 is record low,now 4.6 and predicted to rise.
*Cut taxes-if you make a lot of money
*Haven't had a terrorist attack on our soil since 9-11....
other than 9-11 and pearl harbor i cant really remember an attack of that magnitude anyway

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by cwgibson
...
*More people own houses than ever before-forclosures are at record highs as well, but they did live there for awhile!
*More people have health insurance than ever before-try to buy some drugs for a reasonable price.
*Unemployment at almost record lows- 2.5 is record low,now 4.6 and predicted to rise.
*Cut taxes-if you make a lot of money
*Haven't had a terrorist attack on our soil since 9-11....
other than 9-11 and pearl harbor i cant really remember an attack of that magnitude anyway
Forclosures at record highs? I haven't seen that statistic. Even if it is accurate, however, it makes sense that one goes with the other...
You keep using the insurance thing... Insurance is NOT the responsibility of the Federal Gov.
Unemployment, as I stated is near record lows... predicted to rise? Gee... that surprises me.
Taxes: The richist pay the most, why shouldn't they get a tax cut? When was the last time a poor person hired someone?
The best, however, is your take on the war and 9-11. How many times was the USA attacked under Clinton? Here's a brief list to help you remember.
Dec.92- Yemen
93- First World Trade Center attack
93- Somalia debacle (our troops were ambushed and ordered to stand down) Bin Laden says later the quick retreat of the USA showed the USA could be defeated.
96- Yemen offers Bin Laden. Clinton turns him down.
96- Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia
96- Bin Laden declares Jihad on USA
98- Embassies in Africa
99- Air Strike against Bin Laden in Afghanistan cancelled for fear of UAE family members present.
2000 bombing of the USS Cole
All of that lead up to 9-11. That's what appeasement, ignorance, and timidity earned us....
President Bush had an attack plan in place for Iraq? Good God I hope so! Allied forces enforcing UN resolutions in the No Fly Zones were ROUTINELY fired upon and "painted" by radar. I'm no military scholar, but that seems to me to be an ACT OF WAR. There should have been an attack plan in place... Saddam should have been dealt with in the early to mid 90's when this craziness was going on.
Cw, you keep skipping around... why don't you just say what the real issue is and let's debate that.

 

[cwgibson]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Forclosures at record highs? I haven't seen that statistic. Even if it is accurate, however, it makes sense that one goes with the other...
You keep using the insurance thing... Insurance is NOT the responsibility of the Federal Gov.
Unemployment, as I stated is near record lows... predicted to rise? Gee... that surprises me.
Taxes: The richist pay the most, why shouldn't they get a tax cut? When was the last time a poor person hired someone?
The best, however, is your take on the war and 9-11. How many times was the USA attacked under Clinton? Here's a brief list to help you remember.
Dec.92- Yemen
93- First World Trade Center attack
93- Somalia debacle (our troops were ambushed and ordered to stand down) Bin Laden says later the quick retreat of the USA showed the USA could be defeated.
96- Yemen offers Bin Laden. Clinton turns him down.
96- Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia
96- Bin Laden declares Jihad on USA
98- Embassies in Africa
99- Air Strike against Bin Laden in Afghanistan cancelled for fear of UAE family members present.
2000 bombing of the USS Cole
All of that lead up to 9-11. That's what appeasement, ignorance, and timidity earned us....
President Bush had an attack plan in place for Iraq? Good God I hope so! Allied forces enforcing UN resolutions in the No Fly Zones were ROUTINELY fired upon and "painted" by radar. I'm no military scholar, but that seems to me to be an ACT OF WAR. There should have been an attack plan in place... Saddam should have been dealt with in the early to mid 90's when this craziness was going on.
Cw, you keep skipping around... why don't you just say what the real issue is and let's debate that.
first off im not skipping i just responded to your post. as for 9-11 you said and i quote "Haven't had a terrorist attack on our soil since 9-11...." 9-11 was an major event i know about all of those others but half of them werent on our soil literally not politically. but like i said there havent been a lot of major attacks on our soil anyway. taxes-i dont know what tax bracket you are in but it isnt the poor that suffer it is the middle class. they are the ones who foot the bill, and your right they dont hire people either. mostly they are just decent people trying to raise their kids and make a living while being strangled by our government. insurance-fine we can leave that alone but you brought it up. forclosure rates dont necessary corelate with the rate of homeowners;because if their wages were up to the cost of living standards they wouldnt lose their homes. ill debate what ever you want i was just trying to respond to the points you broght up which is what i thought a debate was.show me your facts anything i said is easily available on the internet and can be proven; give me your sources and ill look into it.

 

[cwgibson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y12O_KpWto

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by cwgibson
first off im not skipping i just responded to your post. as for 9-11 you said and i quote "Haven't had a terrorist attack on our soil since 9-11...." 9-11 was an major event i know about all of those others but half of them werent on our soil literally not politically. but like i said there havent been a lot of major attacks on our soil anyway. taxes-i dont know what tax bracket you are in but it isnt the poor that suffer it is the middle class. they are the ones who foot the bill, and your right they dont hire people either. mostly they are just decent people trying to raise their kids and make a living while being strangled by our government. insurance-fine we can leave that alone but you brought it up. forclosure rates dont necessary corelate with the rate of homeowners;because if their wages were up to the cost of living standards they wouldnt lose their homes. ill debate what ever you want i was just trying to respond to the points you broght up which is what i thought a debate was.show me your facts anything i said is easily available on the internet and can be proven; give me your sources and ill look into it.
Ok, so to clarify your point; Are you saying the middle class in the USA is suffering? In relation to what?
By skipping around I meant from your original post... You've mentioned Katrina, Race, the economy, and now the war...
Your Utube link I refuse to watch... I loath Chris Matthews. As I said, Iraq is a non issue to me. It's ridiculous to ask Allied pilots to fly missions enforcing UN Resolutions while being fired at on a regular basis. As far as I'm concerned Saddam broke the peace treaty and was fair game. He should have been taken out after the first attack on allied pilots. Clinton didn't have the spine to do it. He just let the pilots fly in harms way every day with no recourse.
I've addressed Katrina; if you'd like to comment further we can.
Race? That unfortunately has become a classic democratic talking point. I look forward to the day in this country when everyone is created equal. That will not happen, however, until the democrats quit feeding racial stereotypes.
So that leaves us with the economy. as I said, from my viewpoint I don't see the middle class suffering. At all... I think Americans have grown spoiled and don't even know what the word suffering means. You might not be happy with the tax cut you recieved (and all Americans did in fact receive a tax cut...), but I've got news for you; Charlie Rangel (d) who is in line to take over the Ways and Means Committee has said he "cannot think of one" tax cut that should be renewed... if you think your taxes will go down under democrats you're dreaming.
My point with the list of attacks under Clinton was to show you what the consequences of our previous administration were. We were attacked because we were viewed as weak.
Iraq is a mess right now... and in hindsight things should have been done differently. But to think the democrats would have done better is a fallacy. Clinton proved that with his inaction.
We're fighting terrorists in Iraq right now. We're fighting Iran in Iraq right now. We're fighting for stability in the Middle East. All three are enemies that needed to be addressed for a long long time.
I'm just glad we're fighting them in Baghdad instead of Somewheresville, USA.

 

[dragonzim]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
*Stock market at record highs
*More people own houses than ever before
*More people have health insurance than ever before
*Unemployment at almost record lows
*Cut taxes
*Haven't had a terrorist attack on our soil since 9-11....
Ya, life sucks to be an American...

Spoken like a Texan!

(no offense intended here)

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by DragonZim
Spoken like a Texan!

(no offense intended here)
Hehe, no offense taken..
Growing up in Texas I definitely lived in a "bubble". That's changing now as more and more people move into our state.... there's still a lot of "Texans" left though..
My perspective has expanded as I've been allowed to travel. Some people see the USA as being deficient.. I have come away with seeing how great of a nation we truly have.

 

[npage]

Just a quick comment on Health Insurance and Healthcare.
Imagine the reality of if we did go to Public Healthcare in this country.
Do you enjoy the service at the Post Office or the DMV?
Now equate that level of service and red tape to you doctors office or the emergency room. Most people would be dead waiting in line or filling out forms.
And those of us who want better care for our families will have to pay twice for health care. Once to the government and again for private insurance to receive adequate care.
Thats why we stay in school, get good jobs and provide for our families.

 

[kmc]

Does anyone else find it ironic ( sad actually ) that someone would come to a message board frequented by people who obviously have too much disposable income, bash the system that has provided that lifestyle and then wonder why people disagree with what he is saying?
As Larry the cable guy says; "That's like taking a megaphone down to the local trailer park and start screaming 'Wal-Mart sucks!'". :hilarious

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by kmc
Does anyone else find it ironic ( sad actually ) that someone would come to a message board frequented by people who obviously have too much disposable income, bash the system that has provided that lifestyle and then wonder why people disagree with what he is saying?...
That's a funny way of speaking exactly what I'm thinking... the income in this country is tremendous... it's just every American seems to have the "I want what he has" syndrome.

 

[windmill]

What about the "I want something different..." syndrome?