politics

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by alyssia
I never said that I didn't want that shoved down my throat. ....
I apologize. I misquoted you. Sorry about that.

 

[alyssia]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
I apologize. I misquoted you. Sorry about that.

 

[phixer]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
In a specific area yeah it will happen. There are almost no TVs made in the USA anymore. But we were paying people 60,000 dollars for putting a TV together! Do some research into comparative advantage. It will give you a deeper Idea what I'm talking about. But in a nutshell in some areas we won't be as competitive in, and others in other areas we are. There are other reasons why people have workers here. mainly stability economically and politically. We spend a whole lot of money. And are the most productive workers in the world.
Yeah we reward those smart people who can use the system. And yes rich people keep more money. But the numbers still remain, Of the money the IRS takes in 88% of it is payed by the top 25% of wage earners. That is a very "progressive system."
Compairitive advantage is a vicious circle. Using the TV analogy, have to use a retro example here because the US no longer makes TVs. If your shopping for a TV at K Mart you will benifit, but if you are the worker who produces tuners for Curtis Mathis you are cutting your own throat by buying a TV made by Mitsubishi. This is how the middle class is affected, the rich typically have more padding between them and the bottom line, the padding is jobs which can be easily cut before suffering a drop in their salaries. These jobs largely compose the working middle class. Although the rich may pay more in taxes they are not as sensitive to tax increases as the middle class worker because they have more options to shelter their income.
When a rich snob starts to lose profits, he'll cut back on limosine service and drive the Rolls Royce instead. When the limosine driver loses his job he has to switch to Top Ramen, know this is a dramatic example but very true. The effects of higher taxes are more significant to middle class wage earners.
Higher taxes hurt the middle class more than the rich.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Phixer
Compairitive advantage is a vicious circle. Using the TV analogy, will have to use a retro example here because the US no longer makes TVs. If your shopping for a TV at K Mart you will benifit, but if you are the worker who produces tuners for Curtis Mathis you are cutting your own throat by buying a TV made overseas. This is how the middle class is affected, the rich typically have more padding between them and the bottom line, the padding is jobs which can be easily cut before suffering a drop in their salaries. These jobs largely compose the working middle class. Although the rich may pay more in taxes they are not as sensitive to tax increases as the middle class worker because they have options.
When the rich start to lose profits, they cut back on limosine service and drive the Rolls Royce instead. When the limosine driver loses his job he has less to cut back on and the effects are more significant.
Higher taxes hurt the middle class much more than the rich.
Yeah that is what I'm saying, importing will hurt a small ammount of people like people who made tvs, but will help us as a whole economy. (and are there really kmarts left) as cold as that sounds we shouldn't artifically support failing industries. It costs alot of money to do that. (more taxes) and raises the prices of those products for the rest of us.
These people who do get displaced need to find other jobs they are out there.
lets not forget in the last 15 years we have had the highest trade deficits in history, but have had the lowest unemployment rates too.
yes true, higher taxes are retarted I want my money to stay mine, and not have some idiot or really smart guy in washington decide how to best use my money.
but low taxes for rich people isn't nessasary a bad thing maybe the limo driver won't have to look for a new job. Like you said the more you are taxed the less you want to earn.

 

[yimmy]

I'm 15 and this is my opinion.I don't know about you guys, but with me its the war in Iraq. Bush has done a couple great things, but this was not one of them. I don't really know why we went over. I know the Kurds and what not want a country but two more groups want it as well, and that has been going on for ages. I wanted to join the airforce but I recently changed my mind because of the way its going. This war has had the highest death tolls. I still may join the airforce one day just so we can get this over, I just think it is a bunch of Balogna. I don't think John Kerry did much better. I've actually seen him before while he was giving a speech at a college. I went up to him and I said " that was a nice speech" he looked at me and said get out of my way. I'm sorry if this goes against many people but I have friends who came back from Iraq and cannot live a normal life because of the war. They have nightmares every night and have seen people having their insides blown out. I'm sorry for getting carried away but JMO
Jimmy

 

[alyssia]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
Yeah that is what I'm saying, importing will hurt a small ammount of people like people who made tvs, but will help us as a whole economy. (and are there really kmarts left) as cold as that sounds we shouldn't artifically support failing industries. It costs alot of money to do that. (more taxes) and raises the prices of those products for the rest of us.
These people who do get displaced need to find other jobs they are out there.
lets not forget in the last 15 years we have had the highest trade deficits in history, but have had the lowest unemployment rates too.
yes true, higher taxes are retarted I want my money to stay mine, and not have some idiot or really smart guy in washington decide how to best use my money.
but low taxes for rich people isn't nessasary a bad thing maybe the limo driver won't have to look for a new job. Like you said the more you are taxed the less you want to earn.

So they can find another job? Where, working at McDonalds making $6 an hour and trying to support themselves and a family?

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by alyssia
So they can find another job? Where, working at McDonalds making $6 an hour and trying to support themselves and a family?
So you are telling me that in this great country one of the richest in the world. That the only opportunity these people are going to have is working for wally world or mcdonalds, hmm. sorry not buying it. but to put what I said in context, It was not talking about one person, yeah there will be that one person that well won't change and stay where he is at, and get stuck working at McDonalds, but that is his choice. I have personal experience, my dad got laid off from his job making almost six figures, and was unemployed for serveral months, but not because the jobs where not there, he was offered several but they weren't where out of town and he didnt' want to move. So he stayed unemployed. He chose living in his town vs having a job in another. He didn't go get a job an McDonalds. Unemployment payed him more. And guess what he stayed on it till it ran out. Then he took a job. Another quite good one. The flaw isn't in the system of free trade it clearly works, but in the person that is unwilling to adapt.

 

[reefreak29]

Originally Posted by Yimmy
I'm 15 and this is my opinion.I don't know about you guys, but with me its the war in Iraq. Bush has done a couple great things, but this was not one of them. I don't really know why we went over. I know the Kurds and what not want a country but two more groups want it as well, and that has been going on for ages. I wanted to join the airforce but I recently changed my mind because of the way its going. This war has had the highest death tolls. I still may join the airforce one day just so we can get this over, I just think it is a bunch of Balogna. I don't think John Kerry did much better. I've actually seen him before while he was giving a speech at a college. I went up to him and I said " that was a nice speech" he looked at me and said get out of my way. I'm sorry if this goes against many people but I have friends who came back from Iraq and cannot live a normal life because of the war. They have nightmares every night and have seen people having their insides blown out. I'm sorry for getting carried away but JMO
Jimmy

actually this war has had the lowest death tolls

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Yimmy
I'm 15..... This war has had the highest death tolls.
...but I have friends who came back from Iraq and cannot live a normal life because of the war. They have nightmares every night and have seen people having their insides blown out. I'm sorry for getting carried away but JMO
Jimmy
Jimmy, this war has the "highest casualties"?
Also, I respect what you say at 15, but many of us who are older know even more folks over there...

 

[phixer]

Originally Posted by Yimmy
I'm 15 and this is my opinion.I don't know about you guys, but with me its the war in Iraq. Bush has done a couple great things, but this was not one of them. I don't really know why we went over. I know the Kurds and what not want a country but two more groups want it as well, and that has been going on for ages. I wanted to join the airforce but I recently changed my mind because of the way its going. This war has had the highest death tolls. I still may join the airforce one day just so we can get this over, I just think it is a bunch of Balogna. I don't think John Kerry did much better. I've actually seen him before while he was giving a speech at a college. I went up to him and I said " that was a nice speech" he looked at me and said get out of my way. I'm sorry if this goes against many people but I have friends who came back from Iraq and cannot live a normal life because of the war. They have nightmares every night and have seen people having their insides blown out. I'm sorry for getting carried away but JMO
Jimmy
What if you were witness to a crime, someone who walked into a house then pulled the people out of the house by their hair and randomly shot them in the street. But you werent the only one who witnessed the crime. Several other people saw it too but they turned their heads away and pretended not to notice, either because they were too afraid or too cowardly to stop it. And then the criminal did it again to someone elses house, and once again nobody lifted a finger to stop it so more criminals did it and the group became larger and stronger, and then they came to your neighborhood.
The US has an obligation to stop this kind of activity from occuring whenever and wherever it occurs, it comes with the turf. Many do not understand this and want to live under the security of our government and enjoy the freedom without remembering that freedom is not free and will cease to exist without maintenance. War is the unfortunate price of freedom and unfortunately it will never go away.

 

[phixer]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
Yeah that is what I'm saying, importing will hurt a small ammount of people like people who made tvs, but will help us as a whole economy. (and are there really kmarts left) as cold as that sounds we shouldn't artifically support failing industries. It costs alot of money to do that. (more taxes) and raises the prices of those products for the rest of us.
These people who do get displaced need to find other jobs they are out there.
lets not forget in the last 15 years we have had the highest trade deficits in history, but have had the lowest unemployment rates too.
yes true, higher taxes are retarted I want my money to stay mine, and not have some idiot or really smart guy in washington decide how to best use my money.
but low taxes for rich people isn't nessasary a bad thing maybe the limo driver won't have to look for a new job. Like you said the more you are taxed the less you want to earn.
Im not so sure, importing has had a mixed effect, although it has reduced the costs of some products it has also abolished our MFG industry and put a serious dent in our economy due to a large loss of MFG jobs. Dont know if youve ever turned wrenches but the Harbor Frieght junk store (I love this place, really) imports nearly all of its merchandise from China. The tools are junk but at 2 bucks a socket... who cares. Japan started out this way too, now look at them and what we have lost.
Exporting has a more profound effect in stimulating our economy because it encourages national productivity which promotes higher wages. Our auto industry is in jeopardy of duplicating the TV example. I cant say I feel sorry for Detroit though. They did it to themselves by not competing on the same playing field, build a better car, incentives matter but people are rational. I would much rather pay the same price for an American Vehicle if it was built as well as a Mercedes Benz. This shift has however greatly stimulated the Japanese economy.
Wish it were as easy as saying displaced workers need to find new jobs, fact is outsourcing and illeagal immigration is keeping many displaced workers from finding jobs that will pay enough to live. Its a vicious circle. The root cause must be addressed and now back to the politics of it. Secure the borders, reduce taxes and slow down the population growth.

 

[phixer]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
So you are telling me that in this great country one of the richest in the world. That the only opportunity these people are going to have is working for wally world or mcdonalds, hmm. sorry not buying it. but to put what I said in context, It was not talking about one person, yeah there will be that one person that well won't change and stay where he is at, and get stuck working at McDonalds, but that is his choice. I have personal experience, my dad got laid off from his job making almost six figures, and was unemployed for serveral months, but not because the jobs where not there, he was offered several but they weren't where out of town and he didnt' want to move. So he stayed unemployed. He chose living in his town vs having a job in another. He didn't go get a job an McDonalds. Unemployment payed him more. And guess what he stayed on it till it ran out. Then he took a job. Another quite good one. The flaw isn't in the system of free trade it clearly works, but in the person that is unwilling to adapt.
The cost of living will only allow so much adaption. In 2006 the poverty threshold for a family of four is $19,307. The problem is that not everyone is able to adapt to what is in demand and dosent have a six figure salary paying into unemployment either, so if they did loose thier job they would have to get another one of equal value rather quickly. Either physically or intellectually not all people can be Atheletes, MDs or Scientists.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Phixer
Im not so sure, importing has had a mixed effect, although it has reduced the costs of some products it has also abolished our MFG industry and put a serious dent in our economy due to a large loss of MFG jobs. Dont know if youve ever turned wrenches but the Harbor Frieght junk store (I love this place, really) imports nearly all of its merchandise from China. The tools are junk but at 2 bucks a socket... who cares. Japan started out this way too, now look at them and what we have lost.
Exporting has a more profound effect in stimulating our economy because it encourages national productivity which promotes higher wages. Our auto industry is in jeopardy of duplicating the TV example. I cant say I feel sorry for Detroit though. They did it to themselves by not competing on the same playing field, build a better car, incentives matter but people are rational. I would much rather pay the same price for an American Vehicle if it was built as well as a Mercedes Benz. This shift has however greatly stimulated the Japanese economy.
Wish it were as easy as saying displaced workers need to find new jobs, fact is outsourcing and illeagal immigration is keeping many displaced workers from finding jobs that will pay enough to live. Its a vicious circle. The root cause must be addressed and now back to the politics of it. Secure the borders, reduce taxes and slow down the population growth.
Actually we export more than we did 20 years ago. we just import a whole lot more (I'll get you a reference on that when I can find which book I read that it is in) The trade deficit is only half of the story. What happens to all those US dollars that they get for the crap we buy. Most of it ends up back here in investments. lets face it we are the most stable economy in the world.
As for japan its economy faced a simular economic downturn like we had in the 70's in the late 90's. Now it is a consumer driven economy just like ours is. Unemployment is still under 5%. About as low as the economy can sustain long term.
There are lots of ways to show how free trade helps us here. Most of them are very technical and I don't want to type that much. But look at countries that have open trade, They are doing pretty good, But look at closed countries. North Korea, China before they started opening up, cuba, the USSR. The most drastic example was china way back in the day. They were the leaders of technology. Then the ming dynasty closed the country destroyed all there ships and refused to trade with anyone. It wasn't all that good for the next 500 or so years for the chinese.
As for Iraq I have been saying that for so long. Screw the WMD's or oil or whatever. If you are walking down the street with a big gun and you are really good with that big gun. The best. And you see some one getting raped and tortured then you better be using your big gun. And blow the guy head off.

 

[alyssia]

Originally Posted by Phixer
The cost of living will only allow so much adaption. In 2006 the poverty threshold for a family of four is $19,307. The problem is that not everyone is able to adapt to what is in demand and dosent have a six figure salary paying into unemployment either, so if they did loose thier job they would have to get another one of equal value rather quickly. Either physically or intellectually not all people can be Atheletes, MDs or Scientists.

 

[phixer]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
Actually we export more than we did 20 years ago. we just import a whole lot more (I'll get you a reference on that when I can find which book I read that it is in) The trade deficit is only half of the story. What happens to all those US dollars that they get for the crap we buy. Most of it ends up back here in investments. lets face it we are the most stable economy in the world.
As for japan its economy faced a simular economic downturn like we had in the 70's in the late 90's. Now it is a consumer driven economy just like ours is. Unemployment is still under 5%. About as low as the economy can sustain long term.
There are lots of ways to show how free trade helps us here. Most of them are very technical and I don't want to type that much. But look at countries that have open trade, They are doing pretty good, But look at closed countries. North Korea, China before they started opening up, cuba, the USSR. The most drastic example was china way back in the day. They were the leaders of technology. Then the ming dynasty closed the country destroyed all there ships and refused to trade with anyone. It wasn't all that good for the next 500 or so years for the chinese.
As for Iraq I have been saying that for so long. Screw the WMD's or oil or whatever. If you are walking down the street with a big gun and you are really good with that big gun. The best. And you see some one getting raped and tortured then you better be using your big gun. And blow the guy head off.
Thats for sure!

 

[yimmy]

Thats what I was told about the war casualties...or it was the most amount in the period of time the war has been going on or something. The reason why it affects me so much is many of my friends are overseas. With me its a touchy topic, but with me going to afghanistan made sense...but Iraq didn't. The intiative for Iraq was weapons of Mass Destruction. Which weren't found and then they grabbed Hussein and now their reestablishing the government. I just don't see why were in Iraq, but I agree on the war on terror. But as for rebuilding Iraq for me is confusing.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Yimmy
Thats what I was told about the war casualties....
Not even close man... not even close.
Take for granted I believe EVERY life we lose is precious; but here are some numbers...
We've lost approx. 3,200 soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Surprise Attack on Pearl Harbor- Approx 2400 US service personel killed.
Battle for Iwo Jima- approx 7,000 killed
Battle for Okinawa- over 12,000 US personel killed
D Day- around 3400 killed
The USA lost around 55,000 soldiers in WW2.
Approx 58,000 in Vietnam
Over 50,000 killed in Korea
And over 600,000 killed in the US Civil War.
Now, one further point to make. WMD's were found in Iraq. Sarin and Mustard gas were both found.

 

[phixer]

The media will never report the truth, look who runs it they are biased to the left.

 

[dogstar]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Now, one further point to make. WMD's were found in Iraq. Sarin and Mustard gas were both found.
Could you give a source...? Not Sen. Santorum I hope.
I know that they had found a few old decaying ( nearly 20 years old), leftover pre Gulf War devices that contained residual chemicals, but nothing that a ''reasonable person'' would consider a WMD.....IMO

 

[phixer]

Id consider CBR agents to be weapons of mass destruction no matter how old. Numerous small staches of Chemical agents were found, this was reported by CNN and FOX on several occasions. However like you said what was found was not the huge ammunition bunkers that the Iraqis were expected to have.
Going into Iraq for this reason was based on faulty intellegence. IMO the real reason for returning was something entirely different.