politics

[phixer]

The thing I find most disturbing about our system is the way the rich have become richer and the poor have become poorer. From what I can see its the middle class who are getting shafted.
In a way it sounds like the democrats want the government to provide nearly everything, but government cannot provide in the manner that the market can. If left to the democrates we would all be equally poor paying for programs that we will never use. The middle class would be taxed out of existence eventually. Before paying more tax the rich would simply utilize the concept of a global economy and move their assets elsewhere. Placing a price ceiling on certain goods and services would simply force those markets elsewhere. The answer is fewer taxes and a smaller population.

 

[stdreb27]

.
The average American middle class taxpayer is becoming crippled by the exorbant ammount of taxes we must pay to support programs we will never use. The wealthy elite shelter their income through corporations, the poor dont pay taxes. Who pays for all of the free handouts... the middle class taxpayer. The laffer curve indicates that eventually a person will get tired of being taxed and will see that working is futile when all of your wages are consumed by taxes, at this point productivity decreases and so will the wages since wages are based on productivity. Corporations use this principle now when determining profits, so they outsource labor.
QUOTE]
Sorry buddy check your facts
The Top 50% pay 96.54% of All Income Taxes
The Top 1% Pay More Than a Third: 34.27%
83.88% of all taxes are payed by the top 25% of wage earners.

 

[stdreb27]

I am a huge news junkie I eat it up. I am a senior in college, (procrasinating as we speak) And a econ major. As I sit and listen to our congressmen and woman, I can't find a single democrat that actually knows what he is talking about economically. The only one that comes close is the democrat governor in New Mexico. But guess what he did? The same thing bush did, cut taxes. Although unlike bush he didn't go out and waste a bunch of money too.
But as a whole democrat policies make no economic sense. They walk hand in hand with protectionist policies of unions that end up hurting us as a whole. They want to tax us more. If you look at the economic history of the USA every time we had major tax cuts we had huge increases in tax revenue. This tells me that the much maligned trickle down economics really works. hmmm
As for jobs, US manufacturing has been loosing jobs, but that isn't because we aren't producing less, there are other externalities. In reality the percentage of GDP that is imported is falling. The value added from manufacturing rose dramatically since the 70's. You can ask any honest economist and he will tell you that there is going to be a natural level of unemployment in any free market economy. At it is about 4 to 5% And we are smack dab in the middle.
Then there is this other argument that corporations are raking it in and screwing the middle class.
There is two problems with this argument. One middle class america is driving our consumer economy. Hey guys I have an idea lets bite the hand that feeds me.
Second corporate america hires middle class people and if they are raking it in they can hire more people at middle class wages to rake in more money. That is great. I'm happy, let em get rich and I'll make my buck too.
And I'm not even going to talk about AL Gore and his environmentalists wacos.
I really can't support a party that blatently misleads people. There is no way they can't know what they are saying is wrong.

 

[oscardeuce]

paige for congress or the senate
Especially for Congressman Studds. Just look into that juicy bit and see the truth.

 

[petjunkie]

Who cares because we're stuck with Bush for two more years anyways and after that it's just going to be another politician. There's no possible way any president can kept the majority happy because there are too many issues to deal with. However, we need to get someone who has served in the military and did something if we are going to be at war. I hate how Bush portrays himself as a "war president" with no experience at war. Also some seperation of Church and State would be nice. Other than that everybody in charge is working for those with the most money and that's not me.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by petjunkie
Who cares because we're stuck with Bush for two more years anyways and after that it's just going to be another politician. There's no possible way any president can kept the majority happy because there are too many issues to deal with. However, we need to get someone who has served in the military and did something if we are going to be at war. I hate how Bush portrays himself as a "war president" with no experience at war. Also some seperation of Church and State would be nice. Other than that everybody in charge is working for those with the most money and that's not me.

Well, pretty sure FD Roosevelt never fought in a war and he carried us through WW2.
As far as seperation of church and state, I'm not sure where you are going with that. Our gov. is more seperated than ever before from the "church". Kids can't pray in school or before football games (although many still do), Can't say "God", "Lord" or "Jesus" at graduation ceremonies, can't display the 10 Commandments in Federal Buildings, can't have a nativity scened up for Christmas, can't be taught about our country's religious background in public schools, etc..

 

[alyssia]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Well, pretty sure FD Roosevelt never fought in a war and he carried us through WW2.
As far as seperation of church and state, I'm not sure where you are going with that. Our gov. is more seperated than ever before from the "church". Kids can't pray in school or before football games (although many still do), Can't say "God", "Lord" or "Jesus" at graduation ceremonies, can't display the 10 Commandments in Federal Buildings, can't have a nativity scened up for Christmas, can't be taught about our country's religious background in public schools, etc..

Why should that stuff be allowed in schools? Not everybody likes having religion shoved down their throats.

 

[mr. guitar]

We can pray at school. In fact I do every mornin'. We can say God, Lord, and Jesus at graduation, we can have nativity scenes up at Christmas, and I've been taught our countries religious backgrounds. Oh yeah, I'm in a public school system. Oh yeah we pray before football games to. If people don't want to they don't have to. That's what America is all about. FREEDOM!!! Our founding fathers wanted us to do things as we want that's why we have the Bill of Rights. If you didn't know God is mentioned in the Constitution.

 

[oscardeuce]

Well, the 10 Commandments may come from the Bible, but they are pretty good rules to live by no matter what your religion or beliefs. We have forgotten that.
BTW,
There is no "separation of Church and State" in the Constitution.
It clearly forbides Congress from "establishing" a Sate religion, and it allows for the free expression of religion not to be limited by congress.
As to the responsibilties of the Feds, read the preamble, it is clearly spelled out there.
Bush flew Interceptors, and was "trained" in war.
Clinton left to Europe, would you say the same about him?

 

[phixer]

Originally Posted by Phixer
.
The average American middle class taxpayer is becoming crippled by the exorbant ammount of taxes we must pay to support programs we will never use. The wealthy elite shelter their income through corporations, the poor dont pay taxes. Who pays for all of the free handouts... the middle class taxpayer. The laffer curve indicates that eventually a person will get tired of being taxed and will see that working is futile when all of your wages are consumed by taxes, at this point productivity decreases and so will the wages since wages are based on productivity. Corporations use this principle now when determining profits, so they outsource labor.
QUOTE]
Sorry buddy check your facts
The Top 50% pay 96.54% of All Income Taxes
The Top 1% Pay More Than a Third: 34.27%
83.88% of all taxes are payed by the top 25% of wage earners.

The more someone is taxed the less inclined they are to earn more. So although these figures may represent that the top may pay more in taxes it dosent reflect the fact that they also keep more. If the top wage earners were not able to shelter their income and keep more of it then earning more would be futile and counterproductive. What would the incentive be to earn more if the majority of it goes to taxes?
The top wage earners able to shelter much of thier income as business expenses because they convert personal expenditures into allowable deductions. The link below briefly explains how. The Rich Dad / Poor Dad series by Robert T. Kiyosaki also explains how this is done in more detail.
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...nBusiness.aspx
Figures dont lie, but liars can figure.

 

[phixer]

"One middle class america is driving our consumer economy. Hey guys I have an idea lets bite the hand that feeds me.
Second corporate america hires middle class people and if they are raking it in they can hire more people at middle class wages to rake in more money. That is great. I'm happy, let em get rich and I'll make my buck too. "

So true, I agree with almost all of it but dont understand this part:
If a company has to pay someone a higher wage wont they be inclined to hire fewer employees at that wage? Wouldnt this encourage the company to outsource its labor to a cheaper wage market? At this point then wouldnt the middle class worker lose his or her job to cheaper labor, which would then slow down the economy.

 

[phixer]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
One middle class america is driving our consumer economy. Hey guys I have an idea lets bite the hand that feeds me.
Second corporate america hires middle class people and if they are raking it in they can hire more people at middle class wages to rake in more money.
So true, I agree with almost all of it but dont understand this part:
If a company has to pay someone a higher wage wont they be inclined to hire fewer employees at that wage? Wouldnt this encourage the company to outsource its labor to a cheaper wage market? At this point then wouldnt the middle class worker lose his or her job to cheaper labor, which would then slow down the economy.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Phixer
So true, I agree with almost all of it but dont understand this part:
If a company has to pay someone a higher wage wont they be inclined to hire fewer employees at that wage? Wouldnt this encourage the company to outsource its labor to a cheaper wage market? At this point then wouldnt the middle class worker lose his or her job to cheaper labor, which would then slow down the economy.
In a specific area yeah it will happen. There are almost no TVs made in the USA anymore. But we were paying people 60,000 dollars for putting a TV together! Do some research into comparative advantage. It will give you a deeper Idea what I'm talking about. But in a nutshell in some areas we won't be as competitive in, and others in other areas we are. There are other reasons why people have workers here. mainly stability economically and politically. We spend a whole lot of money. And are the most productive workers in the world.
Yeah we reward those smart people who can use the system. And yes rich people keep more money. But the numbers still remain, Of the money the IRS takes in 88% of it is payed by the top 25% of wage earners. That is a very "progressive system."

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by alyssia
Why should that stuff be allowed in schools? Not everybody likes having religion shoved down their throats.
See, that's the misconception... Allowing something doesn't "shove it down your throat". I don't drink or smoke. Does that mean I should get alcohol and cigarettes banned in public? I hate rap music, should it be banned from playing in public?
Our laws were based, in large part, on the 10 Commandments. Why should they not be posted?
Contrary to the popular spin, the Constitution doesn't banish religion from the public square. It actually says :Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
I'm all for seperating church and state don't get me wrong. What I am adamantly opposed to, however, is the government legislating against organized religion. In addition, minority beliefs such as Islam are shown preference over other beliefs in the name of "diversity and education.
Again, I'm all for keeping government out of religion, but we've crossed that line. There is an active movement through our nation to erase our country's history and beliefs that it was founded on. There is also a movement to abolish organized religion....

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Mr. Guitar
We can pray at school. In fact I do every mornin'. We can say God, Lord, and Jesus at graduation, we can have nativity scenes up at Christmas, and I've been taught our countries religious backgrounds. Oh yeah, I'm in a public school system. Oh yeah we pray before football games to. If people don't want to they don't have to. That's what America is all about. FREEDOM!!! Our founding fathers wanted us to do things as we want that's why we have the Bill of Rights. If you didn't know God is mentioned in the Constitution.
Depending on the state you live in, you may or might not be violating recent court rulings. It still happens here too, but all it takes is one lawsuit by the ACLU to end it.

 

[stdreb27]

I don't really understand the whole separation of church "from" state. Isn't our government a representative govt? And isn't the church part of its constituency. We have all these other people and groups lobbying congress and our govt why not have (for the most part) moral people influencing our government too.

 

[1journeyman]

Because the media has spun the "church" with an evil image.
Just like a previous poster said "i don't want to have that shoved down my throat". Classic ACLU line, but not reality. Allowing a prayer before a football game or a student "Thanking God" at a graduation is hardly shoving religion down your throat.
Christmas is another great example. Cities are being sued for putting up manger scenes... If "Christmas" is going to be a holiday then why shouldn't appropriate decorations be used? How is a manger scene offensive?

 

[alyssia]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Because the media has spun the "church" with an evil image.
Just like a previous poster said "i don't want to have that shoved down my throat". Classic ACLU line, but not reality. Allowing a prayer before a football game or a student "Thanking God" at a graduation is hardly shoving religion down your throat.
Christmas is another great example. Cities are being sued for putting up manger scenes... If "Christmas" is going to be a holiday then why shouldn't appropriate decorations be used? How is a manger scene offensive?

I never said that I didn't want that shoved down my throat. I said "some people". I agree w/you that thanking God at a graduation ceremony is not hurting anyone...as for the praying, that can be done in your head.

 

[alyssia]

Originally Posted by Mr. Guitar
We can pray at school. In fact I do every mornin'. We can say God, Lord, and Jesus at graduation, we can have nativity scenes up at Christmas, and I've been taught our countries religious backgrounds. Oh yeah, I'm in a public school system. Oh yeah we pray before football games to. If people don't want to they don't have to. That's what America is all about. FREEDOM!!! Our founding fathers wanted us to do things as we want that's why we have the Bill of Rights. If you didn't know God is mentioned in the Constitution.

The school district that we moved here from didn't even allow kids to use the word "Christmas" at school. They had parties before winter break but it had to be called a "winter party" and we weren't even allowed to bring in red and green plates for the treats. We moved two years ago and at my children's new school they have Christmas parties, Christmas trees at Christmas, and they talk about Easter. These are both public schools. I guess it just depends on how many people complain and who gets involved.

 

[shogun323]

Originally Posted by alyssia
I guess it just depends on how many people complain and who gets involved.
Very well said. I think you just hit the nail on the head!!