Punctuation

[jonthefishguy]

Originally Posted by jrthomas40
i hate to read emails or messages that EVERY word is "wUt dIs Is" type stuff...its a pain to read...i know i am not the greatest at grammar or spelling and i have my mess ups just like the next but i re-read 98% of my post just to make sure i dont have mistakes...i do however commonly leave out apostrophes like in my "donts"...lol

When it comes to punctuation, I will admit that I am not always the best at it, but at least I try. I tend to not be so judgemental when it comes to punctuation as there are too many rules on when and where to put them. Not even a spellchecker will always put a punctuation in the right place. It will correct spelling errors though. It at least gives you options on other sounding words that could possibly fit if one is questionable. Whatever the case may be, I can tell you without a doubt that WUT is not one of the options in a spell check when you have WHAT spelled wrong.

 

[t316]

Originally Posted by lion_crazz
I don't really think the OP is referring to just a few abbreviations though. Abbreviations are an acceptable form of short-handed writing.
The problem with most of today's youth (and I am not really far out of the "youth" category) is that they have taken common words like "that" and transformed them into things like "dat". Words like "cool" are spelled "kool" and many people think simple words like "yeah" are spelled "yah". It just makes a person look very immature when words like those are typed (and they are - all the time).
In agreement Lion...I'm 38 yrs old, and no longer proclaim to be hip, but with three kids, I do know that you either get on board, or you are off the ship. I do not allow foul language in my house, nor disrespect in any form. But...I am trying to allow generation gaps to take their respectful place. I have learned that I can either fight it (old school) or steer it (my school). This is a difficult position to be in, but every day, I am learning that teenagers today are no different than we were.

 

[rudedog40]

The phrase 'good speller' would be considered slang. I believe the proper use would be "spells well".
This would be considered a run-on sentence -- "Most of us that are on here that answer your questions are older and may not take you as serious as we should for the simple fact that you cant take your grammar serious." Need a comma after 'older'.
I could probably find more errors in you eloquent speech, but you get my point. As admirable as it is to try and use good grammer, proper punctuation, and correct spelling, I believe most people who post on forums have better things to worry about. Forums are impersonable places to communicate with other individuals about the topics at hand. I'm not writing a thesis, disertation, or a resume to anyone here. Half the time I hit the wrong keys on my keyboard. Who cares? If I need something answered about an issue with my tank, the last thing I'm worried about is whether I spelled something correctly, or the punctuation and grammer is correct. I do agree knowing proper writing skills are important. However, there's a place and time for it - business communications, technical writings, formal letters, or any type of writing requirements for school. Impersonal writings like replies in forums, letters or emails to friends, online chats, etc. -- I think a lax in proper writing style is acceptable. Just look at 99% of the replies in this forum. I use abbreviations and slang all the time in responses here. Why? Because it's an informal response where all I'm doing is trying to get my point across with the least amount of effort. Go ahead. Pick my long winded response to your post apart. I'm sure you'll find some punctuation and grammatical errors.

 

[lion_crazz]

Originally Posted by rudedog40
Guess you didn't run your speech through a spell checker. Capitalise is the British form of how you spell the word. Most grammarians use the American version, capitaliZed.
Also the phrase 'good speller' would be considered slang. I believe the proper use would be "spells well".
This would be considered a run-on sentence -- "Most of us that are on here that answer your questions are older and may not take you as serious as we should for the simple fact that you cant take your grammar serious." Need a comma after 'older'.
Jon already said that he misspelled the words purposely.

 

[jonthefishguy]

Originally Posted by rudedog40
Guess you didn't run your speech through a spell checker.
No I didnt as this forum does not offer one. But you obviously are here to make a mockery of my point. And by the way, I did know that it was a british spelling as I know that the german spell it "kapitalisiert". However, we are not in britan nor are we in germany. We are taught the American version.

 

[rudedog40]

Originally Posted by jonthefishguy
No I didnt as this forum does not offer one. But you obviously are here to make a mockery of my point. And by the way, I did know that it was a british spelling. However, we are not in britan and not taught british spelling in school.

From Wikipedia...
Greek-derived spellings
-ise, -ize
American spelling accepts only -ize endings in most cases, such as organize, recognize, and realize. British usage accepts both -ize and the more French-looking -ise (organise, recognise, realise). However, the -ize spelling is now rarely used in the UK in the mass media and newspapers, and is hence often incorrectly regarded as an Americanism,[32] despite being preferred by some authoritative British sources, including Fowler's Modern English Usage and the Oxford English Dictionary, which until recently did not list the -ise form of many individual words, even as an alternative. Indeed, it firmly deprecates this usage, stating, "[T]he suffix…, whatever the element to which it is added, is in its origin the Gr[eek] -ιζειν, L[atin] -izāre; and, as the pronunciation is also with z, there is no reason why in English the special French spelling in -iser should be followed, in opposition to that which is at once etymological and phonetic."[33] Noah Webster rejected -ise for the same reasons.[34]
The -ise form is used often[citation needed], but seemingly not always[citation needed] by the British government and is more prevalent in common usage within the UK today; the ratio between -ise and -ize stands at 3:2 in the British National Corpus.[35] The OED spelling (which can be indicated by the registered IANA language tag en-GB-oed), and thus -ize, is used in many British-based academic publications, such as Nature, the Biochemical Journal and The Times Literary Supplement. In Australia and New Zealand -ise spellings strongly prevail; the Australian Macquarie Dictionary, among other sources, gives the -ise spelling first. The -ise form is preferred in Australian English at a ratio of about 3:1 according to the Macquarie Dictionary. Conversely, Canadian usage is essentially like American,[36] although -ise is occasionally found in Canada.[citation needed] Worldwide, -ize endings prevail in scientific writing and are commonly used by many international organisations.
The same pattern applies to derivatives and inflections such as colonisation/colonization.
Note that not all spellings are interchangeable; some verbs take the -z- form exclusively, for instance capsize, seize (except in the legal phrase to be seised of/to stand seised to), size and prize (only in the "appraise" sense), whereas others take only -s-: advertise, advise, apprise, arise, chastise, circumcise, incise, excise, comprise, compromise, demise, despise, devise, disguise, exercise, franchise, improvise, merchandise, revise, supervise, surmise, surprise, and televise. Finally, the verb prise (meaning to force or lever) is spelled prize in the U.S. and prise everywhere else, including Canada,[37] although in North American English pry (a back-formation from or alteration of prise) is often used in its place.[38]
Oh, and you left out the apostrophe in didnt. It's didn't, a derivative of 'did not'.
Plus, you should capitalize Britan and British when speaking of formal names.

 

[rudedog40]

Originally Posted by lion_crazz
Jon already said that he misspelled the words purposely.

You are correct. I posted my response without reading the entire thread first. I was in the process of editing it (you can see my edited reply), but didn't realize there are other insomniacs like myself reading responses here.

 

[jonthefishguy]

I dont take wiki too seriously as there is no one that actually can confirm that everything on there is correct. Wikipedia is open to the public to make changes when they see fit and there have been numerous stories of individuals that have changed countless amounts of information and have made what once was accurate, a total and utter lie.

 

[jonthefishguy]

Originally Posted by rudedog40
Oh, and you left out the apostrophe in didnt. It's didn't, a derivative of 'did not'.
Plus, you should capitalize Britan and British when speaking of formal names.

Now you are just being condesending......

 

[lion_crazz]

Just as a fair warning - if this is going to end up in a fight, unfortunately, the thread may have to be locked..

 

[groupergenius]

Ibtl

 

[renogaw]

I'll jump in and say this:
I honestly think that spell checkers and text messaging are very much to blame for people's lack of spelling correctly. i know i do not use capitallization properly very often, but my puctuation is always spot on. my microsoft word program actually automatically corrects the spelling for me as i'm typing, so a lot of times i'll not even see that i typed something wrong.

 

[groupergenius]

What I don't get is that some folks say that it's the fault of the public school system. I think it's pretty safe to say that 90% of us attended public school. And even in that same system, there are students that get straight A's and there are those that fail out. Is that the systems fault? Or the students?
I have 2 sons, 19 and 17. The older was allways honor roll. The younger is getting by with a 2.8 gpa. Same schools, same teachers, same parents.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by GrouperGenius
What I don't get is that some folks say that it's the fault of the public school system. I think it's pretty safe to say that 90% of us attended public school. And even in that same system, there are students that get straight A's and there are those that fail out. Is that the systems fault? Or the students?
I have 2 sons, 19 and 17. The older was allways honor roll. The younger is getting by with a 2.8 gpa. Same schools, same teachers, same parents.

Overall I would just say it's a friggin message board people, get over yourselves

As far as the schools it is amazing what will get you a passing grade these days. When high School grads can't make change without a computer or calculator the schools have failed.

 

[mr.m]

I am 48 yrs old call me lazy or not but i cant spell and never could this is a mesg board not a school. ppl come here for help not to be put down if your so good and we are ---- to bad

 

[renogaw]

age shouldn't be an excuse either btw... you've had longer to learn the right spelling of things.
message board or not, proper spelling and puctuation will make getting help easier. the better relayed a problem in a way people can understand it, the more likely someone is to respond with correct information.

 

[rudedog40]

Originally Posted by jonthefishguy
Now you are just being condesending......

I'm not trying to be condesending or hypocritical. You make this big long speech about how everyone should watch their spelling, grammer, and punctuation while wrting online, yet everyone of your posts in this thread have the errors you are chatising people for making. I'm simply pointing those errors out. Or are you still making clerical errors to prove your point?
As far a Wikipedia - Yes, the information on that site can be modified, and facts can be construed. But most of those errors are related to historical facts about individuals or events. What I posted was strictly information on proper spelling usage. I don't think there's many people out there that would take the time to modify the proper usage of the ending of a word.
And Briton is spelled with an 'O', not an 'A'.

 

[groupergenius]

Originally Posted by reefraff
Overall I would just say it's a friggin message board people, get over yourselves

As far as the schools it is amazing what will get you a passing grade these days. When high School grads can't make change without a computer or calculator the schools have failed.
Not every single grad is like that though. That's my point. Some kids learn and some kids don't. Some kids just don't care. Some kids can't read, so they'll never get to enjoy these message boards.

 

[geridoc]

I think the original point was well taken. You just have to accept the concept put forth in Shaw's "Pygmalion" and the later "My Fair Lady" that it doesn't matter how smart you are - if you can't express yourself clearly at a level equivalent to what would be considered literate, you will be regarded as illiterate, immature and perhaps, not very smart by people who are literate, mature, and perhaps, smart (not necessarily this last one). It is unfortunate, but that is the way the world works. That said, language does change from the "bottom" up, meaning that slang, abbreviations and acronyms do eventually achieve respectability. I am sure that a reader from the 19th century would be horrified at the quality of the writing of "Catch 22" or any other late 20th century book that is regarded today as well-written. But it is a slow process, as it should be.

 

[gmann1139]

Originally Posted by jonthefishguy
I dont take wiki too seriously as there is no one that actually can confirm that everything on there is correct.
That's just the point. EVERYONE who uses wiki has the responsibility to proofread it, and edit anything is incorrect. Its a tool that demands interaction, in the same way that Google's algorithm tracks what links people click for a given search term.
I usually try to steer clear of the Aquarium, but this thread drew me out, as its been so one-sided.
I value proper grammar, spelling, and punctuation highly, but not in every circumstance. If I see a mistake on someone's resume or cover letter, I stop reading immediately and move to the next one.
If I was an English teacher and someone tried to slip 'wut I did on my summer vaca' past me, I'd get out my big red pen.
But If I get a text message from someone that uses 'ur' or other slang, fine.
Its about context. Our English language, like all the others, is constantly changing and evolving. Go back and peruse a little Shakespeare. Not so easy, is it?
As far as the spelling of certain words go, wiki Noah Webster and see the fruits of his labo(u)r.
Language is a constantly evolving creature that molds itself to fit the need of the current user. In the case of our hyper-speed society, and especially our teenagers and young adults like myself that have never had to wait for anything, and are hyped up on Red Bull and sugary candy, typing as few characters as possible while still getting their point across.
As someone who was in college when Instant Messenging and Text Messaging grew exponentially in popularity, I realized that these were going to be differentiators, something that some people were going to be comfortable with, and others weren't.
Therefore I was surprised when my mother the Luddite adopted the use of instant messenger to communicate with my sister and me. She realized that this was the best/easiest/cheapest way to regularly communicate with her children at college, and so figured it out and adopted it. I'm sure the parents out there have had to wade through text messages sent by their children to translate those words to a language they understand.
Overall, let's remember that the usage of slang, the gibberish that appears on IM and Texts, and use of 'proper' English in general needs to be seen in context. All of use abbreviations, acronyms, and slang in our lives every day. To outsiders, this makes life more difficult and requires learning, but once a person is 'inside the circle,' it is understood that this actually improves communication.