Republican Candidates

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2458490
It doesn't mandate coverage but makes insurance available and affordable for every american. So you can quote all you want...problem is that you pick one sentence and fail to read the rest.
You believe the load you're trying to shovel????
How are you going to make insurance affordable for every American when you aren't dealing with the reasons health care is so expensive?
 

stdreb27

Active Member

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2458490
It doesn't mandate coverage but makes insurance available and affordable for every american. So you can quote all you want...problem is that you pick one sentence and fail to read the rest.
Doesn't mandate coverage?
Man I thought we went through this, even though you say it over and over, doesn't make us more likely believe it, hence we are republicans. If we did believe the stuff told to us over and over, we'd already be democrats.
BTW it DOES mandate health coverage.
Employer Contribution: Employers that do not offer or make a meaningful contribution to the cost of quality health coverage for their employees will be required to contribute a percentage of payroll toward the costs of the national plan.
All we need to help this economy, is another artifical cost to hurt small businesses.
How will the mandate
that children be covered affect me?
A. When children are born, their parents will be assisted in signing them up for
affordable, high quality coverage, either through their own employer-sponsored insurance
plans, through Medicaid or SCHIP, or through options established by the Obama plan.
We will continue to make sure that children are covered, which may include verification
when parents sign them up for daycare or school. Obama’s plan will help parents make
sure their children get the care they need, at the time they need it.
All we need to help this economy, is another artifical cost
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2458899
How are you going to make insurance affordable for every American when you aren't dealing with the reasons health care is so expensive?
What I think is funny about this whole thing is that (in liberal minds) the cause to the problem, is the answer.
What screwed up the medical field to begin with? Insurance companies and socialist policies creating artificial effects on price and demand. So the answer is make the artifical effects farther reaching and wider spread.
Who here actually believes that higher demand is going to lead to lower prices? That is sooo backwards it isn't even funny. And that, Rylan, is the root flaw with his plan. Come on. Supply and demand isn't just abstract concept with no actual application.
 

bang guy

Moderator
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2458899
How are you going to make insurance affordable for every American when you aren't dealing with the reasons health care is so expensive?
There are very large discounts for group rates. The larger the group the lower the rate. I don't see a problem with allowing people to join and get a group rate as long as they are paying for their own insurance.
In my opinion making litigation against doctors and hospitals more difficult would cut medical costs significantly.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2459466
There are very large discounts for group rates. The larger the group the lower the rate. I don't see a problem with allowing people to join and get a group rate as long as they are paying for their own insurance.
In my opinion making litigation against doctors and hospitals more difficult would cut medical costs significantly.
The problem is someone has to pick up the cost of the uninsured that will be brought into the plan. So by by discount. Then by bringing more people into the system you increase demand so of course price goes up.
The legal problems will never be resolved as long as the Democrats are bought and paid for by the trial lawyers. It isn't just the lawsuits, the CYA method of practicing medicine adds a large amount to medical costs.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2459466
I don't see a problem with allowing people to join and get a group rate as long as they are paying for their own insurance.
Isn't that how it is run now? I'd imagine most Insured people are insured through their employment. Not individually insured...
I do like the idea of nationally licensing insurance companies, so they don't have to do it 50 different times and have 50 different set of operations. There is some streamlining that would help.
 

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2459661
The problem is someone has to pick up the cost of the uninsured that will be brought into the plan. So by by discount. Then by bringing more people into the system you increase demand so of course price goes up.
The legal problems will never be resolved as long as the Democrats are bought and paid for by the trial lawyers. It isn't just the lawsuits, the CYA method of practicing medicine adds a large amount to medical costs.
I think more people in the system would bring costs down because the costs would be more spread out, which is why groups get lower rates than individuals. This is not as simple as a supply vs demand graph. Now if more people were sick than healthy.. it may cause a problem...
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2459722
This is not as simple as a supply vs demand graph. Now if more people were sick than healthy.. it may cause a problem...
well look at the grouping currently used, through current federal programs, private group purchases ect. Has price gone down?
I is laughable to say supply and demand doesn't apply in this situation.
Lets look at England and Canada. With PRICE AT 0 dollars there is sooo much demand for the services they are telling woman to stay at home when having babies! You have such demand that people wait for months for serious procedures. I LOVE how people ignore basic economic principals, when they ahve been proven over and over. It is more complicated. Not really.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
How about the candidates that suypport "universal healthcare3" prove they are right by actually addressing the issues we bring up each time rather than point to the poor guy that has no insurance. I am for heathcare....IF.... they can put to rest these issues...but they never address them.
the issues are, longer lines for basic procedure (a waiting list after the organ waiting list)
Everyone will flood clinic over the slightest cough
good doctors leave country because they no longer get top dollar for their specialized services..leaving our doctor pool thinned.
For Christ sake, look at the VA...this is a government funded healthcare plan and while they have made great strides the past few years, are far from superb care.
Oh, and should someone help support my healthcare through taxes, especially since I smoke...
 

1journeyman

Active Member

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2459790
How about the candidates that suypport "universal healthcare3" prove they are right by actually addressing the issues we bring up each time...
Darth, come on....
You know how it works.. The Government is the epitome of efficiency. Our Founding Fathers created a Government that would shape and run our lives. They envisioned the Federal Government taking care of every aspect of each and every day we draw breathe.... Good Lord I wish some of these people would freakin read the Constitution they swore to uphold.

Rylan, I'd love for you to explain mathmatically how this equation balances out:
Higher expenses + more people= lower premiums for everyone

Where higher expense= Cost of health care. Clearly people want insurance because they don't want to pay medical bills.
More people= Every american (see Obama's webpage)
Lower premiums= Again, see Obama's webpage
Einstein couldn't balance that equation Rylan. It does not work...
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2456706
what does he have to do with anything or this conversation?
Well...since you asked...
SOme mentioned other black leaders and I borught up Louie. Obama will have a problem as his church gave an award to Louie and called him a "man of greatness". THe Magazine which "honored" Louie is owned by the church and the minister's daughter runs it.
I belive Obama will have some problems with this should he get to the general election.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
The # of peple in a particular insurance pool/group does not mean chaper rates. In simple terms, companies look at historical claims over a specific time period in order to arrive at the rates charged. A smaller group could actually have a lower rate.
IMO we do not have a health care crisis. THe Great Depression was a crisis.
The left beleives the governemnt needs to solve all problems for people regardless how big or small...so they continue on with their mantra which is eventually accepted as "gospel" regarding the "crisis".
This does not mean the health care system does not need some attention...but I for one do not accept the term crisis or see the need for governmental universal healthcare as the solution.
Can we point to ONE current government social program that has met projections regarding cost and has been a success based on outcomes?
make a list then go back at the programs inception to look at porjected future cost and acceptable target level outcomes.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2459722
I think more people in the system would bring costs down because the costs would be more spread out, which is why groups get lower rates than individuals. This is not as simple as a supply vs demand graph. Now if more people were sick than healthy.. it may cause a problem...
Obama claims his plan will cost everybody less $. In order to guarantee lower rates...the govenemnt will have to regulate the ENTIRE industry..... usage, ration care, price regulation, etc, etc.
Your comment states what happens if people are sick? They'll simply have to raise more taxes to cover....or regulate the entrie industry. They'll have to most likely do both.
Government regulation of ANY industry has not been too successfull.
Galen Institute...looks dead on regarding government run healthcare
State-administered systems always fall victim to laws of supply and demand. In a healthy marketplace, consumers determine what they’re willing to pay. But in a price-controlled system, bureaucrats and politicians make those decisions instead.
Case in point: Two new "wonder drugs" with the potential to prolong the lives of thousands of kidney cancer sufferers are being denied to British patients because they are too expensive.
The drugs have proven to shrink tumors dramatically, with some disappearing altogether. The drugs have been licensed for safety, but the British government agency that approves payment for new drugs so far has declined approval.
In the interest of national budgets, state-administered health systems have an incentive to put saving money before lives.
This creates a serious discrepancy between what’s needed and what’s provided – including the ratio of doctors to patients. Japan, for example, spends only about half as much of its gross domestic product on health care as the United States. But the resulting low salaries that doctors receive have caused a deadly shortage of cancer specialists in a country where the disease is the leading cause of death.
Government decisions can also have a dampening effect on progress and innovation. In 1993, for example, the Clinton administration proposed a plan to control prices on so-called “breakthrough” drugs. These are the innovative drugs that offer important new treatments but which are so new, they don’t yet have any competitors.
Not surprisingly, the two years after her price control plan was announced saw substantial declines in the growth of drug research and development. It wasn’t until after the Clinton plan was defeated that investment in pharmaceutical research and development began to return to previous levels.
In other words, when the government gets its hands on drug pricing, drug creation takes a hit. Never mind those who desperately await the invention of the next miracle cure.
The best health care decisions are made by patients and their doctors -- not by the government. That’s why the solution to America’s health care costs doesn’t lie with expanded public programs. Instead, it lies with creating a uniquely American system grounded in proper greater incentives, more affordable choices, and expanded access to care and coverage.
 

rylan1

Active Member

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2459833
Darth, come on....
You know how it works.. The Government is the epitome of efficiency. Our Founding Fathers created a Government that would shape and run our lives. They envisioned the Federal Government taking care of every aspect of each and every day we draw breathe.... Good Lord I wish some of these people would freakin read the Constitution they swore to uphold.

Rylan, I'd love for you to explain mathmatically how this equation balances out:
Higher expenses + more people= lower premiums for everyone

Where higher expense= Cost of health care. Clearly people want insurance because they don't want to pay medical bills.
More people= Every american (see Obama's webpage)
Lower premiums= Again, see Obama's webpage
Einstein couldn't balance that equation Rylan. It does not work...
The expenses are less in group programs... for coverage. Medical bills are ridiculous. My wife had to get an anestesia (spelling?) and they charged $1500 for that by itself...basically for a few stitches... Its like people can't afford to get hurt... keep in my mind that I have insurance. When people file bankruptcy because they can't afford to pay medical bills....something is wrong with that...
The system needs to be revolutionized and there are many cost savings things that can lower the costs for insurance... One thing you left out is that the cost for medical care for the uninsured is paid for by the insured. So if more people are able to get coverage... the cost would come down because it would be less of a burden on hospitals... and its up to the gov't to make sure that hospitals are charging what they are supposed to, instead of pocketing the gained profits. So if hospitals charge less, insurance costs less... and it is passed down to the consumer who will pay less.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Does Obama or CLinton have a plan to stop illegal immigrants...so we do not have to pay for their healtcare via increased cost?
THey end up in hospitals which must treat them...and often pay nothing. This also contirbutes to rising costs.....but I don't hear them addressing this issue too often, if at all.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2459922
The system needs to be revolutionized and there are many cost savings things that can lower the costs for insurance... One thing you left out is that the cost for medical care for the uninsured is paid for by the insured. So if more people are able to get coverage... the cost would come down because it would be less of a burden on hospitals...
And how is Husseins, or Hillary's plan going to change that? The burden of the "uninsured" is still going to be placed on the people who actually make money... The "hidden cost" is still there and still passed on to americans through Taxes, the only think is now it is officially recognized. So everyone can come out of the woodwork and ask for medical treatment without paying. Come one seriously? It is going to be more expensive than ever.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2459922
The expenses are less in group programs... for coverage. Medical bills are ridiculous. My wife had to get an anestesia (spelling?) and they charged $1500 for that by itself...basically for a few stitches... Its like people can't afford to get hurt... keep in my mind that I have insurance. When people file bankruptcy because they can't afford to pay medical bills....something is wrong with that...
The system needs to be revolutionized and there are many cost savings things that can lower the costs for insurance... One thing you left out is that the cost for medical care for the uninsured is paid for by the insured. So if more people are able to get coverage... the cost would come down because it would be less of a burden on hospitals... and its up to the gov't to make sure that hospitals are charging what they are supposed to, instead of pocketing the gained profits. So if hospitals charge less, insurance costs less... and it is passed down to the consumer who will pay less.

What you have described is total governmnet control of the industry. A government takeover of doctors, hospitals, etc, etc.
No thanks...been tried in other countries.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
For Osama Obama (as coined by Ted) plan to work, magically the whole cost of these uninsured medical procedures are going to have to go away. Because 1 everyone is going to be insured, (that money is going to have to come from somewhere ) Raising taxes back to pre-Bush levels. Isn't going to cover the inflood of people wanting free healthcare. 2 since insurance companies will have MORE risk by not being able to turn away higher risk people. The additional cost will be distributed through their network. Increasing prices.
3rd with the increase in demand and unchanging supply, without more cripling federal regulations, we will have a shortage, and with your claimed (not social healthcare) prices will go up.
Your candidates plan lacks any economic crosschecking. Because he is a bleeding heart lib. And that will never change.
 

bang guy

Moderator
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2459661
The problem is someone has to pick up the cost of the uninsured that will be brought into the plan. So by by discount. Then by bringing more people into the system you increase demand so of course price goes up.
The legal problems will never be resolved as long as the Democrats are bought and paid for by the trial lawyers. It isn't just the lawsuits, the CYA method of practicing medicine adds a large amount to medical costs.
Give the Uninsured a bus ticket to Canada.
I want to join an insurance plan that doesn't allow policy holders to smoke, eat at McDonalds, sue the Hospital, or have an IQ lower than 120. That should keep rates low enough for me to afford.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Darn us simple people who think basic economic pricipals that this whole country uses (except for some really smart libs) are too simple to actually work.
 
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