Republican Candidates

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2459953
For Osama Obama (as coined by Ted) plan to work, magically the whole cost of these uninsured medical procedures are going to have to go away. Because 1 everyone is going to be insured, (that money is going to have to come from somewhere ) Raising taxes back to pre-Bush levels. Isn't going to cover the inflood of people wanting free healthcare. 2 since insurance companies will have MORE risk by not being able to turn away higher risk people. The additional cost will be distributed through their network. Increasing prices.
3rd with the increase in demand and unchanging supply, without more cripling federal regulations, we will have a shortage, and with your claimed (not social healthcare) prices will go up.
Your candidates plan lacks any economic crosschecking. Because he is a bleeding heart lib. And that will never change.

Where do you think the money comes from for insurance co's?......Premiums!.. This plan is not a free plan because you would have a monthly premium if you choose to participate.
2nd, what were the Bush tax cuts for?... a lagging economy due to the slowing economy. People did well (better) pre-Bush. The tax cuts would still apply, but people making over $250k (or whatever the $ is, we just say the wealthy) would pay taxes as they did prior to cuts.
This is not social health care, but social health coverage...big difference and is for those who want it.... its not mandated (atleast Obama's isn't)
Why would we have a shortage? We have a constant supply of medical nurses and doctors... if anything it would create more jobs... we also would have a healthier society because people would stop waiting until they are most dead before they see a doctor... which would lower health costs
His plan also addressess prevention...he discusses dietitians and treating things such as asthma and diabeties
Insurance co would not have more risk because they are not required to insure everybody.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2459992

Where do you think the money comes from for insurance co's?......Premiums!.. This plan is not a free plan because you would have a monthly premium if you choose to participate.
2nd, what were the Bush tax cuts for?... a lagging economy due to the slowing economy. People did well (better) pre-Bush. The tax cuts would still apply, but people making over $250k (or whatever the $ is, we just say the wealthy) would pay taxes as they did prior to cuts.
This is not social health care, but social health coverage...big difference and is for those who want it.... its not mandated (atleast Obama's isn't)
Why would we have a shortage? We have a constant supply of medical nurses and doctors... if anything it would create more jobs... we also would have a healthier society because people would stop waiting until they are most dead before they see a doctor... which would lower health costs
His plan also addressess prevention...he discusses dietitians and treating things such as asthma and diabeties
Insurance co would not have more risk because they are not required to insure everybody.
His plan calls for:
1. Guaranteed eligibility. No American will be turned away from any insurance plan because of illness or pre-existing conditions.
2. Subsidies. Individuals and families who do not qualify for Medicaid or SCHIP but still need financial assistance will receive an income-related federal subsidy to buy into the new public plan or purchase a private health care plan.
3. Mandatory Coverage of Children: Obama will require that all children have health care coverage.
Clearly you missed by point, You argued that prices will go down because people whose are currently being absorbed by hospitals, will no longer be absorbed by hospitals.
I am pointed out that the cost is going to be absorbed by some one else.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2459992

2nd, what were the Bush tax cuts for?... a lagging economy due to the slowing economy. People did well (better) pre-Bush. The tax cuts would still apply, but people making over $250k (or whatever the $ is, we just say the wealthy) would pay taxes as they did prior to cuts.
Umm you really believe a liberal democrat is going to give the middle class a tax cut?
How well people are doing is not quazi-measurable, and not supportable either way. And polls measuring american's satisfied with their lives are around 75%. (not that I put weight in them)
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2459992
Insurance co would not have more risk because they are not required to insure everybody.
This is pasted from your beloved Jr. Senator's website. Don't insult my intellegence. I should have said Anybody, not Everybody.
Obama's Plan to Cover Uninsured Americans: Obama will make available a new national health plan to all Americans, including the self-employed and small businesses,...
Guaranteed eligibility. No American will be turned away from any insurance plan because of illness or pre-existing conditions.
Thus higher cost to the insurance company, and more risk.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2459922
The expenses are less in group programs... for coverage. Medical bills are ridiculous. My wife had to get an anestesia (spelling?) and they charged $1500 for that by itself...basically for a few stitches... Its like people can't afford to get hurt... keep in my mind that I have insurance. When people file bankruptcy because they can't afford to pay medical bills....something is wrong with that...
The system needs to be revolutionized and there are many cost savings things that can lower the costs for insurance... One thing you left out is that the cost for medical care for the uninsured is paid for by the insured. So if more people are able to get coverage... the cost would come down because it would be less of a burden on hospitals... and its up to the gov't to make sure that hospitals are charging what they are supposed to, instead of pocketing the gained profits. So if hospitals charge less, insurance costs less... and it is passed down to the consumer who will pay less.
So many things wrong here....
The expenses are less in a group because Insurance Companies play the "Law of Averages". In a Company you are going to have healthy and sick individuals. That same "Law of Averages" will not work in a Universal Plan....
Your example of you and your wife is a great point! Who is going to pay $1500 for your bill next time? The private Insurance company that is getting paid less money from you for your premium? So now you are implying, whether on purpose or not, that medical bills are either going to be regulated or paid for by the Fed.
Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but I think actually medical bills cannot legally force you into bankruptcy.
Originally Posted by Rylan
and its up to the gov't to make sure that hospitals are charging what they are supposed to, instead of pocketing the gained profits. So if hospitals charge less, insurance costs less... and it is passed down to the consumer who will pay less
you've been arguing that Obama's plan is not socialized medicine but now you post that? Good Lord man, do you understand what you just said in that post?

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2459992

if you choose to participate....
WRONG, WRONG, WRONG
Read the plan as I quoted from OBAMA'S OWN FREAKIN WEBSITE. NO ONE HAS A CHOICE. ALL INSURANCE WILL BE AFFECTED.
I defy you to explain this: "My plan begins by covering every American. If you already have health insurance, the only thing that will change for you under this plan is the amount of money you will spend on premiums. That will be less.."
There is NO CHOICE involved. He will manipulate the system and adversly affect my health care.

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2459992

Where do you think the money comes from for insurance co's?......Premiums!.. This plan is not a free plan because you would have a monthly premium if you choose to participate.
If everybody pays a premium...why will he allow tax cuts to expire in order to be a funding source for the plan?

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
http:///forum/post/2460280
If everybody pays a premium...why will he allow tax cuts to expire in order to be a funding source for the plan?
Because he's promising EVERYONE who currently has insurance will pay lower premiums then they are now. The huge shortfall has to be made up somewhere. Not only will the uninsured be covered, but the rest of us will have our premiums reduced...

 

[stdreb27]

I really wish people would think before they take such a strong stance on a subject.

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2460290
Because he's promising EVERYONE who currently has insurance will pay lower premiums then they are now. The huge shortfall has to be made up somewhere. Not only will the uninsured be covered, but the rest of us will have our premiums reduced...
Yep...but actually, Obama has lied regarding his plan. It does not cover everyone as he claims. Several analysts estimated 15-20 million would remain without insurance. Yet, we will have a TREMENDOUS price tag to cover just 50% of those that currently do not have insurance.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2459722
I think more people in the system would bring costs down because the costs would be more spread out, which is why groups get lower rates than individuals. This is not as simple as a supply vs demand graph. Now if more people were sick than healthy.. it may cause a problem...
More people in the system wont bring prices down any further than a decent sized company gets now. What it will do is add to the number of people getting check ups, taking their kids in for a sore throat or the sniffles etc.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2460291
I really wish people would think before they take such a strong stance on a subject.
What I'm beginning to figure out, both from watching large amounts of debates, interviews and from reading blogs and even posts here is that to some degree it's not about "thinking". Sure, people need to learn to think for themselves, but it's much more about the absolutely incredible PR and Spin Machine the Dems have in operation.
Rylan's posts here are a great example. He's obviously getting his information from somewhere that he trusts. In fact, he trusts the sources so much he's willing to argue his point even when confronted by obvious contradictions from Obama's own webpage.
I can't think of a single source I trust that much. Any fact, any statistic, any quote I post I check from multiple sources.
The Dems have a propaganda machine going that would make Joseph Goebbels drool with envy. It's one thing when your supporters ignore facts. It's another thing entirely when they are willing to argue against the facts.

 

[metweezer]

I like Romney, but it looks like old man McCain is going to get the republican nod

 

[scubadoo]

If you think about it, you can work the Obama plan to your advantage..and it will cost big bucks and lead to higher cost to all. If he is going to GUARANTEE one access to affordable coverage and no one can be turned away for a pre-exisitng condition...why pay for ANY coverage if you are currently healthy? Simply wait till you get sick..then fill out the form. You'll pay the same as others and cannot be denied due to pre-existing conditions.
If I'm healthy and rarely go to the doctor and do not have any insurance claims or prescriptions, why can't I wait till I need the coverage..then sign-up ? What is the motivation for healthy folks to participate if the costs of the coverage is greater than the benefit? If I am guaranteed access...why do I need to participate if I am helathy? I can opt out...so why participate?

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
http:///forum/post/2460356
If you think about it, you can work the Obama plan to your advantage..and it will cost big bucks and lead to higher cost to all. If he is going to GUARANTEE one access to affordable coverage and no one can be turned away for a pre-exisitng condition...why pay for ANY coverage if you are currently healthy? Simply wait till you get sick..then fill out the form. You'll pay the same as others and cannot be denied due to pre-existing conditions.
If I'm healthy and rarely go to the doctor and do not have any insurance claims or prescriptions, why can't I wait till I need the coverage..then sign-up ? What is the motivation for healthy folks to participate if the costs of the coverage is greater than the benefit? If I am guaranteed access...why do I need to participate if I am helathy? I can opt out...so why participate?
That will be the first loophole closed. They are not going to allow anyone to go uninsured. Hillary this week even talked about garnishing wages of people who wouldn't choose to pay themselves.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2460384
That will be the first loophole closed. They are not going to allow anyone to go uninsured. Hillary this week even talked about garnishing wages of people who wouldn't choose to pay themselves.
Seriously has no one on his camp sat there and thought of that?

 

[scubadoo]

Then Obama will be a LIAR..as he has stated everyone will have access and can opt out....and no pre-existing condition clause. Since there is no pre-existing clause, I do not see how Obama can close the loophole given what he is saying.
If you have a pre-exisitng condition you cannot be denied coverage....and you will be offered access. So, if you are young, single and healthy...you need not offer any premiums to the program...unitil such time you are older and/or you are sick or perhaps get married and have kids.
What is the incentive for a healthy young person to buy into the progam? There is none under the Obama plan....cause you can opt out...then come on later if you need the coverage.
Why should I pay my employer $ each pay...if Obama has promised I'll have access to coverage if I need it? He also states you can opt out. I'll self insure until such time.....the cost of doing so will surpass the cost of the premiums.

Simply illustrating how his plan is not workable..and is not the answer based on his own statements and positions communicated.

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2460452
Seriously has no one on his camp sat there and thought of that?
Interesting...looks like Paul Krugman agrees with what I said regarding the Obama plan...he says....
As a practical matter, letting people opt out if they don’t feel like buying insurance would make insurance substantially more expensive for everyone else.
Here’s why: under the Obama plan, as it now stands, healthy people could choose not to buy insurance — then sign up for it if they developed health problems later. Insurance companies couldn’t turn them away, because Mr. Obama’s plan, like those of his rivals, requires that insurers offer the same policy to everyone.
As a result, people who did the right thing and bought insurance when they were healthy would end up subsidizing those who didn’t sign up for insurance until or unless they needed medical care.
In other words, when Mr. Obama declares that “the reason people don’t have health insurance isn’t because they don’t want it, it’s because they can’t afford it,” he’s saying something that is mostly true now — but wouldn’t be true under his plan.

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2460452
Seriously has no one on his camp sat there and thought of that?
Of course thay have but....they think folks will simply accept their mantra as gospel. That's why you have to really analyze what they are saying . Looks like I have already posted a potential loophole in his proposed system. This is why many beleive his system will end up being the Billary system. If it stays as is...then he is a LIAR regarding just about every positive aspect he's chanting regarding his plan.

 

[scubadoo]

Based on reports, looks like the Billary socialism approach to the economy posted earlier in this thread is alive and well in her campaign. Reports are her high paid senior campaign staff will work for free this month.
Wow, looks like ole Bill might have snatched victory away with his garbage campaigning. She can't raise enough $...that is not a good scenario when the well runs dry and Obama is raking in the $ in contributions.

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2459992

This is not social health care, but social health coverage...big difference and is for those who want it.... its not mandated (atleast Obama's isn't)
Not mandated? If this is correct is the loophole correct? healthy folks have no reason to participate since they are guaranteed the same coverage for the same price at any time? No pre-existing condition clause or increased premiums for higher risk folks with exisitng conditions?