Same Sex Marriage Okayed In New York ... Your Thoughts?

mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
"We WANT TRUTH, JUSTICE AND THE PURSUIT of happiness, an not have to be judged by others. No have to be called a sicko, or a pervert, ect." Yet you have no problem doing that to me because I disagree with you politically:
"That is just the most Crazy thing I have ever heard in my whole entire life."
Please copy and paste any word or compilation of words that I wrote that threatens or intimidates anyone, beyond simply disagreeing?
 
scott t

scott t

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///forum/thread/386373/same-sex-marriage-okayed-in-new-york-your-thoughts#post_3393159
I am quite opposed to homosexual marriage. It demeans the institution of marriage. Of course the modern iteration of heterosexual marriage has been destroyed by heterosexuals anyway, so it really isn't as big a deal as it was in the past. And yes, I do have a problem with homosexuality. It is destructive to the body and soul. If you have a problem with me not agreeing with it, you are the one filled with hate. Because I don't care what other sickos want to do with their bodies, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it either-you have a problem with that? Or does free speech and free thinking still have a place in America?
HMMMMMM lets see who WROTE this one thing.... Lets all Look at what is writen in RED here Folks..................................... Not once did I demean you, or call you a name because of what you think or feel. I respect that you have a voice on this. I have not said anything ill against you except that I will pray for the hate in your heart.........
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
Post what you want. I'm out of this. It is clear that any divergence of thought will not be tolerated. I have kept my comments respectful and polite. I can see this thread being used against anyone who disagrees with the current politically correct position. As I am not going to back down, I will respectfully walk away from it. Anyone who is abused, assaulted or intimidated for any reason is un-American. Be it for lifestyle or political/religious views. So now that we can all agree on that, can your side please quit crying "hate" whenever someone disagrees? I'm out of this as of now.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
I oppose government Homosexual recognition of marriage simply because I believe it will open the door to some clowns suing churches who refuse to perform same sex ceremonies. Civil unions seem like a good way to go for everyone as far as the government is concerned and let the churches decide who they want to "marry".
As far as Matthew Shepard goes he's dead because he was stupid, not gay. He went in to a very redneck bar in a redneck state and was flirting around. Drunk hayseeds don't tend to take to that very well. That doesn't excuse what those animals did to him but damn, gotta use a little common sense in certain situations.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/386373/same-sex-marriage-okayed-in-new-york-your-thoughts/20#post_3393184
He went in to a very redneck bar in a redneck state and was flirting around.
WOW!! Yeah, he definately should have been tortured to death for that.

Had civil unions been available to like gendered individuals and those unions given the same legal rights as marriage then I doubt we would be arguing today about gay marriage. The fact is that life partners of the same sex have been discriminated against for a long long time and it's about time people look past their own noses to recognize that being unsimilar is not a crime.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Aside from the marriage right and all the rights or additions that come with it (which I have no problem granted since government has taken marriage into its house) no one has yet to present another right with held by law. Personal prejudice shall always exist no matter what. And not just against homosexuality. But under law I have yet to see those on the soap box, present another right that is withheld by law.
Don't even compare this to segregation or womens suffrage...they had no rights at all....homosexuals in this day and age haveall their rights with the exception of marriage...so get off the equality soap box and stop comparing homosexuality to those movements.....
Darth (the lesbian trapped in a mans body) Tang
 
scott t

scott t

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/386373/same-sex-marriage-okayed-in-new-york-your-thoughts/20#post_3393184
I oppose government Homosexual recognition of marriage simply because I believe it will open the door to some clowns suing churches who refuse to perform same sex ceremonies. Civil unions seem like a good way to go for everyone as far as the government is concerned and let the churches decide who they want to "marry". Oh that is totally Likely to happen, but I dont think it will hold water because of the fact that the State can not tell the church what it should and should not do.
As far as Matthew Shepard goes he's dead because he was stupid, not gay. He went in to a very redneck bar in a redneck state and was flirting around. Drunk hayseeds don't tend to take to that very well. That doesn't excuse what those animals did to him but damn, gotta use a little common sense in certain situations.
 
scott t

scott t

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang Guy http:///forum/thread/386373/same-sex-marriage-okayed-in-new-york-your-thoughts/20#post_3393185
WOW!! Yeah, he definately should have been tortured to death for that.

Had civil unions been available to like gendered individuals and those unions given the same legal rights as marriage then I doubt we would be arguing today about gay marriage. The fact is that life partners of the same sex have been discriminated against for a long long time and it's about time people look past their own noses to recognize that being unsimilar is not a crime. Bang Guy I could not have said it better myself, I agree 110% on that.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang Guy http:///forum/thread/386373/same-sex-marriage-okayed-in-new-york-your-thoughts/20#post_3393185
WOW!! Yeah, he definately should have been tortured to death for that.

Had civil unions been available to like gendered individuals and those unions given the same legal rights as marriage then I doubt we would be arguing today about gay marriage. The fact is that life partners of the same sex have been discriminated against for a long long time and it's about time people look past their own noses to recognize that being unsimilar is not a crime.
Did you miss where I wrote "That doesn't excuse what those animals did to him"? I agree about the civil unions deal.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
@ Scott. Yeah, I would guess the Churches will win in court but why should they have to hire lawyers to protect their constitutional right? It's like the photographer in New Mexico who turned down a job that would have required her to attend a gay commitment ceremony (NM has no gay marriage or civil unions). She was fined by the state Human Rights commission and is having to go to court to have the fine overturned.
 
scott t

scott t

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///forum/thread/386373/same-sex-marriage-okayed-in-new-york-your-thoughts/20#post_3393182
Post what you want. I'm out of this. It is clear that any divergence of thought will not be tolerated. I have kept my comments respectful and polite. I can see this thread being used against anyone who disagrees with the current politically correct position. As I am not going to back down, I will respectfully walk away from it. Anyone who is abused, assaulted or intimidated for any reason is un-American. Be it for lifestyle or political/religious views. So now that we can all agree on that, can your side please quit crying "hate" whenever someone disagrees? I'm out of this as of now.
I am not saying that you do not have a right to your own opinion and I respect that you do have an opinion, but I also have a right to an opinion.. That is the wonderful thing about debate. I never said that you were being disrespectful. Hate is a common thing in this world today, it is so common place everywhere from every corner of the world, not only here in America. Hate has been so common place in many different communities in this country, from women, to ethnic races, to homosexuality, that is it seethed so much towards them that it is all that can be seen, it is all that is felt. Walk a Mile in the shoes of the other and see what you think, feel, say. I am not attacking anyone, I am merely standing my ground on what I believe what I know and because I have lived with this all my life. I have been called names, been told that I was worth nothing because I am Homosexual, that I have no right to live because I am, that I am going to hell because I am, been beat up because I am, that I should be killed because I am,. Am I not supposed to View that as hate? Am I supposed to View that as Love? I do not go out on Marches, I do not shout from every corner, I do not shove my homosexuality down others throats, but it seem that just because I am people view it as if I am doing these things. When i stand my ground others view it as i am attaching what they think and feel, I am not I am merely saying walk a mile in my shoes and see how you feel after you have done that. See if you do not getting a little annoyed by the things that are said, the way that you are treated, the way you are looked at. It gets tiresome to say the least. I am not a Mad angry Homosexual, I just want to be treated with dignity and respect that is all.. I want to be see as a person first that has feelings, not as just being Merely a Homosexual, because being Homosexual is just one part of the person that I am, it does not define me, its does not make the whole me it is only on facet of me and I should not be look down upon for that one facet. I want to freely and openly LOVE who I choose to love and be able to be happy about that fact, without worrying that I maybe beat up, called names, or even killed. Is that to much for someone to ask? Is that such a hard thing for others to understand? Should I have to stand in judgment of others because of that?
 
scott t

scott t

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang Guy http:///forum/thread/386373/same-sex-marriage-okayed-in-new-york-your-thoughts/20#post_3393199
Why should same sex partnerships have to go to such great lengths to receive the same constitutional rights that you enjoy?
Agreed....
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/386373/same-sex-marriage-okayed-in-new-york-your-thoughts/20#post_3393196
@ Scott. Yeah, I would guess the Churches will win in court but why should they have to hire lawyers to protect their constitutional right? It's like the photographer in New Mexico who turned down a job that would have required her to attend a gay commitment ceremony (NM has no gay marriage or civil unions). She was fined by the state Human Rights commission and is having to go to court to have the fine overturned.
No one should have to!!!!! She should not have been fined for that, do not see why she should have had to go through that at all. It was her right to not do it, I totally do not agree that she should have been put through something like that........
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///forum/thread/386373/same-sex-marriage-okayed-in-new-york-your-thoughts/20#post_3393182
Please copy and paste any word or compilation of words that I wrote that threatens or intimidates anyone, beyond simply disagreeing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///forum/thread/386373/same-sex-marriage-okayed-in-new-york-your-thoughts/20#post_3393180
I don't care what other sickos want to do with their bodies
Calling someone a sicko definately crosses the line of simple disagreement.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/386373/same-sex-marriage-okayed-in-new-york-your-thoughts/20#post_3393184
I oppose government Homosexual recognition of marriage simply because I believe it will open the door to some clowns suing churches who refuse to perform same sex ceremonies. Civil unions seem like a good way to go for everyone as far as the government is concerned and let the churches decide who they want to "marry".
As far as Matthew Shepard goes he's dead because he was stupid, not gay. He went in to a very redneck bar in a redneck state and was flirting around. Drunk hayseeds don't tend to take to that very well. That doesn't excuse what those animals did to him but damn, gotta use a little common sense in certain situations.
I don't know why folks are kicking against the insurance so hard for...every person who goes to the hospital without insurance to pay, gets help from the government, (tax payers) or the prices are raised for those of us who do pay. It is to our benifit to allow these people to be acknowledged by the state, so they can get insurance and pay thier own way.
The church has always had the right to marry a couple or not..even to members of their own congregation. most ministers will have a sit down talk to the couple to decide if they think they should be married. I know a minister who won't hesitate to refuse to marry a couple when it doesn't look like the marriage will last to them. Nobody can sue a church, or it's leaders....not even young men who have been molested by them. Religeous institutions don't pay taxes, they are separated from the government. Within their walls they have a right to practice their version of how to serve the god of their choice.
I have had my Gay friends come out and ask me for an opinion. My opinion is guided by religion, I don't agree it's a healthy life style. I also don't agree with todays young people living together. I don't agree with lots of things the government calls freedom.
I certainly don't agree with crazy religious people picketing a grave site declaring the gay person has gone on to hell....and the government calls that free speach, while thier loved ones cry and has to listen to the hate being screamed at them while they bury their dead. I don't agree with putting metal in your face or making your hair stand on end and paint it purple either. I don't think it's healthy to wear your pants down around your hips so low you can't safely walk or climb stairs, and force me to look at your underware. My religion says no tattoos, should I sneer everytime I see one on a person, and treat them like they deserve no respect?
Everyone has a right to personal opinions, you have the right to love or dislike anyone for any reason. I just think it's very wrong to belittle and hurt those you don't agree with. If you don't agree with a life style don't live that way. I don't paint my hair, wear my clothes around my knees or put pins in my eyebrows. I don't play house without a marriage certificate, and I don't engage with same sex. It's not my cup of tea.
What difference will it make to let those who have already been living in a monogamous relationship, make a commitment and be recognized by the state as a couple, so they can get insurance for hospital and medicines they need, visit each other on their death/sick beds in the hospital, and leave their earthly belongings to the survivor should one of them pass away.
Believe me they don't want to be regognized as a couple just so they can to go to a church and be married by some minister that hates them, and thinks wholeheartedly that they are going to burn in hell fire forever, and then sue them so they can force them to do so....No more than I want to go to a Wicca witch ceremony and sue them for not letting me proform Havdalah in their court yard.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Still waiting for this lack of rights to equal other equal rights movements......
Explanation about the new mexico photographer. A couple asked her to photograph their wedding, adate was tentatively scheduled. When they met to go over details the photographer found out then it was to be a lesbian wedding (at the time held no legal status in the state of new mexico, purely ceremonial) the lady expressed her personal belief and told the couple she could not photograph the wedding. The cojple sued and won a settlement, which still baffles me as their was no loss incured...the couple had found a photographer anyway. But the new mexico equal rights commition found the photographer at fault for discrimination....even though it went against her religion. This is the conundrum that will openned. As a small business owner your values and beliefs are tested daily......you have to right to refuse service to anyone...but they have the right to sue you in return.
The couple was not completely upfront....yet the photographer was at all fault because of their hidden situation.
I would say 1/4 of my customers ar homosexual...which probably accounts for why it doesn't bother me. I have actually hung out with many of them and referred work/contracts their way...of this group 1/4 of them take it over the top and actually try to push buttons.....this seems to be the norm....did a gay pride event about three weeks ago. Most were just like your average person. Others were so over the top it was ridiculous...........when was the last time you saw a straight person wear a shirt claiming straight and proud. This is my issue, if you want to be treated normal. Act normal, a freak is a freak......I judge equally, whether straight, black, gay, white, hispanic, or what not...you want to look like a freak or act like one, then don't get hurt when treated like one. I have tats and piercings galore...this is my choice. Sometimes I get stared at..sometimes people make comments...some derogatory...but this is who I am...they disagree with my lifestyle, but I don't get butt hurt about it or complain....
If you are truly proud of who you are, then nothing anyone says or does should affect you.
 
old hickory

old hickory

Member
Acceptance of homosexuality is a sure sign of a society's decaying moral values. Look no further than the Roman Empire or Ancient Greece, if you don't believe me. I'm not a Puritanical member of the religious right, so don't try to pin that label on me--haven't been to a church in more than a decade. I support causes that have merit, women's rights, for example. I cannot and will not condone immoral behavior, and homosexuality, without a doubt, is immoral, unnatural, and, frankly, disgusting. Homosexual decadent behavior does affect us all. Why should I have to tolerate my children being force fed the liberal agenda in school that having two mommies is acceptable and therefore a 'good' thing? We already know from the experience of the African-American community that not having a father in the house leads to increased problems for children--particularly boys--many of whom end up in prison because there isn't a strong father figure. This country has lost its moral compass and acceptance of homosexuality is just one of our problems. If it doesn't do an about-face soon, our children or grandchildren will end up living under another nation's flag--and having, in all likelihood, less rights than they do now.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/386373/same-sex-marriage-okayed-in-new-york-your-thoughts/20#post_3393210
I don't know why folks are kicking against the insurance so hard for...every person who goes to the hospital without insurance to pay, gets help from the government, (tax payers) or the prices are raised for those of us who do pay. It is to our benifit to allow these people to be acknowledged by the state, so they can get insurance and pay thier own way.
The church has always had the right to marry a couple or not..even to members of their own congregation. most ministers will have a sit down talk to the couple to decide if they think they should be married. I know a minister who won't hesitate to refuse to marry a couple when it doesn't look like the marriage will last to them. Nobody can sue a church, or it's leaders....not even young men who have been molested by them. Religeous institutions don't pay taxes, they are separated from the government. Within their walls they have a right to practice their version of how to serve the god of their choice.
I have had my Gay friends come out and ask me for an opinion. My opinion is guided by religion, I don't agree it's a healthy life style. I also don't agree with todays young people living together. I don't agree with lots of things the government calls freedom.
I certainly don't agree with crazy religious people picketing a grave site declaring the gay person has gone on to hell....and the government calls that free speach, while thier loved ones cry and has to listen to the hate being screamed at them while they bury their dead. I don't agree with putting metal in your face or making your hair stand on end and paint it purple either. I don't think it's healthy to wear your pants down around your hips so low you can't safely walk or climb stairs, and force me to look at your underware. My religion says no tattoos, should I sneer everytime I see one on a person, and treat them like they deserve no respect?
Everyone has a right to personal opinions, you have the right to love or dislike anyone for any reason. I just think it's very wrong to belittle and hurt those you don't agree with. If you don't agree with a life style don't live that way. I don't paint my hair, wear my clothes around my knees or put pins in my eyebrows. I don't play house without a marriage certificate, and I don't engage with same sex. It's not my cup of tea.
What difference will it make to let those who have already been living in a monogamous relationship, make a commitment and be recognized by the state as a couple, so they can get insurance for hospital and medicines they need, visit each other on their death/sick beds in the hospital, and leave their earthly belongings to the survivor should one of them pass away.
Believe me they don't want to be regognized as a couple just so they can to go to a church and be married by some minister that hates them, and thinks wholeheartedly that they are going to burn in hell fire forever, and then sue them so they can force them to do so....No more than I want to go to a Wicca witch ceremony and sue them for not letting me proform Havdalah in their court yard.
Do you really think that New Mexico couple wanted a woman who's religious beliefs held them as sinners present at their ceremony? They were trying to cram their lifestyle down her throat to make a political statement.
What do you suppose would happen if a church refused to marry a bi racial couple? Once someone becomes part of a protected class the rules change. As a member of a protected class you can claim discrimination any time you want and it becomes a serious issue.
 
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