schiavo

[knots]

Like I said in an earlier post, I don't know what Terri thinks or what she may or may not have said to her husband or parents, so I CAN'T comment on that. But I can comment on what a marriage is and what you should or should't do. One of the things you should do is love your spouse with all your heart and always do what is best for them. One of the things you should not do is cheat on your spouse no matter what the circumstances. If you are not happy you should get counseling or get divorced. This guy did cheat for 10 years. When you do cheat on your spouse for 10 years, why should you get to decide what to do with your sick spouse? Why would someone that says he loves his wife not allow her parents in her room as she is dying? Why should anyone believe this man who says Terri said she wanted to die if something like this happened to her, when this man stopped being a loving husband 10 years ago when he decided to find someone else? Why would anyone believe this man has Terri's best interest in mind? How could anyone believe this man even loves Terri? Hopefully Terri is in a better place now and for eternity.

 

[molamola]

:yes: :yes: :yes: I agree. I think he didn't take his marriage vows too seriously.

 

[effloresce]

She wasent realy alive, she was brain dead, its like taking your brain out, and placing it into someone elses body, their body will then become you, its limbs and organs will be yours, you will travel the world in that vehicle, but taking away the brain is like having a car with no driver, it isnt alive, it isnt a person.
you can keep someones organs alive by an artifical nervouse system to replicate a brain, but they arent realy alive.

 

[lionkiller]

Everyone misses the main point when they discuss this topic.
No Living will.
Enstranged husband's word against the parent's word.
Can you prove in a court of law Terry said she wanted to die if ever in a similar state. NO. You can't prove it. Therefore you can't argue for her right to die, because there is no proof she wanted to die.
This is one instance I wish people would have erred on the side of caution.
Now that she is dead, no one will ever know what she wanted.
They say she would never come out of that medical state.
They also said the world was flat at one time.
Medicine is learning more and more each day and coming up with new cures each day for ailments. Who is to say she would never come ouyt of it. Tomorrow some brain scientist could discover the drug that would have corrected her problem..............

 

[moraym]

I dont want to argue either side of it, because I dont have a real stance, I think the whole thing is sick from both sides. But just a quick point of law, your spouse is your guardian as soon as you get married. As soon as you're married, your spouse is the sole person responsible for your guardianship should you ever lose the ability to make your own decisions. So in a court of law, the husband wins, no matter what we/the court/the judge thinks about it.
Makes you realize you should really file something permanent, or trust your spouse 100%. Sad situation from all sides, could've easily been avoided but unfortunately the media and the state became entangled.

 

[pontius]

Originally posted by MorayM
I dont want to argue either side of it, because I dont have a real stance, I think the whole thing is sick from both sides. But just a quick point of law, your spouse is your guardian as soon as you get married. As soon as you're married, your spouse is the sole person responsible for your guardianship should you ever lose the ability to make your own decisions. So in a court of law, the husband wins, no matter what we/the court/the judge thinks about it.

It is also illegal to have two spouses. And when you live with a woman for a certain amount of time, have children with her, and very likely own property with her, that is considered a marriage in most states, whether there was a marriage ceremony or not. So since a man cannot have two wives, who is he legally married to? the woman that he wanted to die, or the one that he's living with and has children with? because I don't think he can legally have it both ways, he can't be Terri Schiavo's guardian and this other woman's husband at the same time.

 

[liontamer]

To clear this up...starvavtion in a comatose state or unconcious state is actually quite peaceful and painless. They dont feel a thing. Ther is nuthing wrong with it. So its not really murder, its actually resisiting medical attention...she was already dead anyway.

 

[effloresce]

^ true, when you starve to death, your brain starts to shut down its lower functions, then its higher functions and focus on the lunge and heart to make sure it is working, then it just shuts down completely.
And she didnt have brain functions so she didnt feel a thing, and thats why she lasted so long with no food or water, her body didnt have to go through the steps, it was already at the last step......death

 

[misty7850]

I work in long term care skilled nursing facility. I have taken care of many patients in comatose and or vegative state. I also have seen the pain the family goes through, the hope of seeing a reflex and thinking their loved one is finally "coming around". Only to be disapointed when it doesn't happen again for quite a while. I see the suffering endured by someone in a vegative state, they often get sick with other infections & pneumonia r/t immobility and weakened immune systems. Even though they are kept alive by feeding tubes, they still have wasting of their muscles, and often breakdown with pressure areas. Even a routine turning and positoning schedule cannot keep the open areas from developing. They often develop contractures of their extremities. cannot control their bodily funtions. There is no quality of life what so ever for them. I have cried with the families when they say.. "Thats enough, I can't stand to see my loved one suffer anymore, let them be, Let them die in peace." I've have taken care of both younger adults and older adults in this state, age doesn't make the decisions any easier.
I have told my family to always remember this statement. I love life, I love to live, move, work, fish, play with my grandbabies, do crafts, genealogy, use my computer, enjoy my aquariums and my other pets, the list goes on. If I ever get to the point where I can no longer do or enjoy these things or life has no quality for me... they are to remember... Do you love me enough to let me go.... That is all I ask...

 

[knots]

I'm no medical expert but if she was brain dead and couldn't feel any pain, why did they give her morphine toward the end. Could it be she did feel pain so they gave it to her. Or were they not not really sure if she would feel pain so they gave it to her. Either way sounds to me like she wasn't brain dead, just someone that had a brain injury. It also sounds like the doctors were not even sure since they did give her the morphine.
Something else to ponder as you decide if this was the right thing to do.

 

[effloresce]

onCNN the doctors said they gave her the pain killers becuase they didnt know if she could feel it or not. and also to slow down her body and let her organs shut down.

 

[masala4080]

I did see the southpark making a joke at it. I thought it was funny. I think of it as not of the things she could do, respond, twitch, whatever but the things she couldnt. Eat right, talk, walk, go to the bathroom in a toilet, no human should live like that.

 

[firedad720]

my biggest problem with this, is people saying that the federal gov. should not be involved. give me a frigging break. a state court orders a citizen to be starved to death, the feds. had better get involved.
also when this first happened the husband was asked if she would want to live like that and he stated " i have no idea if she would want to live like this.
there were signed affidaveds(sp) that all the courts refused to consider. after the husband won the law suit, he remembered she said she wouldn't want to live like this.
i don't know how many 20 year olds talk about liveing on life support. i've never talked to any.
the husband didn't want to spend money on her care.
rick
may she RIP

 

[lionkiller]

Anyone that says not receiving food, water, or some form of the two for a period of twelve days is painless needs a reality check. I challenge you to go three days without food and water. Then get back to us and tell us how the cramps in stomach don't bother you. How the deteriation of you muscle mass isn't uncomfortable, and how the cracked lips and cracked skin isn't painful.
(Sarcasm mode on) Oh yeah, that sounds like a hoot. Maybe Disneyland should make it into a ride. They could call it the Shiavo experience.................The line should be huge. (Sarcasm mode off)

 

[effloresce]

(reality mode on) not when you have no lower brain functions, and which she didnt, pain is a lower brain function(reality mode off)

 

[lionkiller]

Are you sure? Everyone has placed so much on science as if it is infalable and always correct. That girl was reacting to stimuli....bottomline. Her pain sensors may not react as they used to but can you be one hundred percent sure she didn't feel something.
People like yourself place way to much stock in science. Granted I can understand why but even science isn't infalable. There have been many cases of scientists and doctors believing one thing and later finding the reverse to be different. Case in point, at one point in the not to distant past doctors believe leeches could help cure various blood problems.
For every doctor that says she can't feel anything there is another that says she can. So once again....how do you know this? I personally couldn't live with myself knowing I "may" have inflicted great physical pain on loved one.
People are going to believe what ever helps them sleep at night or fits their agenda......
You don't KNOW if that person feels pain unless you yourself try it personally.

 

[knots]

Originally posted by Effloresce
(reality mode on) not when you have no lower brain functions, and which she didnt, pain is a lower brain function(reality mode off)

Efflo, You said in an earlier post the doctors didn't know if she felt pain. Now you say her lower brain function wasn't working so she didn't feel pain. This is my point in this whole thing, nobody is really sure what she could feel or not feel. So since they aren't sure, they decided to kill her.

 

[lionkiller]

Something to think about. When I was in high school, many moons ago, Our school had a special ed class for the mentally challenged. There was one kid we called "the moaner" (yeah I know cruel). He was confined to a wheel chair and had no control over his functions. He couldn't feed himself and had to be fed by someone else. He couldn't get around on his own. But he could react to things. He couldn't talk, only moan exactly as Mrs. Shiavo would do in the videos played.
This person had a family that obviously cared for him and took care of him. If the parents change there mind though, Should he be killed in the same fashion as shiavo? Same style condition that will never be cured.

 

[pontius]

I agree with that, and for someone who is said to be all but dead by so many, including many on this board, she sure lasted a long time with no food or water. I don't think "a brain dead vegtable" could last 2 weeks with no food or water.

 

[chainsaw5vent]

Originally posted by knots
If you are not happy you should get counseling or get divorced. This guy did cheat for 10 years. When you do cheat on your spouse for 10 years, why should you get to decide what to do with your sick spouse? Why would someone that says he loves his wife not allow her parents in her room as she is dying? Why should anyone believe this man who says Terri said she wanted to die if something like this happened to her, when this man stopped being a loving husband 10 years ago when he decided to find someone else? Why would anyone believe this man has Terri's best interest in mind? How could anyone believe this man even loves Terri? Hopefully Terri is in a better place now and for eternity.

:yes: :yes:
true dat.