schiavo

[mongo]

Sorry i stopped reading about halfway down the first page, however some of the arguments that are being made have an open end.
First people started playing god the moment she was put on life support.
Second " till death do us part " how is this possible since her family wont let her go. As a parent I would not be able to live withmyself if i let my kid spend 15 years hooked up to machines.
Third what happend has nothing to do with anybody except those related what we think means almost nothing. All you can do is make sure your intentions are clear with all members of your family.

 

[pontius]

Originally posted by mongo
First people started playing god the moment she was put on life support.
Second " till death do us part " how is this possible since her family wont let her go. As a parent I would not be able to live withmyself if i let my kid spend 15 years hooked up to machines.
Third what happend has nothing to do with anybody except those related what we think means almost nothing. All you can do is make sure your intentions are clear with all members of your family.
She was never on life support, not once in 15 years as far as I know....She was on a feeding tube, which is not a machine and not 'life support'. It is obvious to many that her 'husband' had other motives besides her best interest.

 

[farmboy]

Originally posted by mongo
Third what happend has nothing to do with anybody except those related what we think means almost nothing.
The Federal judge ordered that she not be fed by ANY means.
Removing the tube is one thing. . . Not being allowed to give her water or soft foods by mouth is another thing entirely. (Some report that she could eat pudding etc. )
This does affect ALL of us. The judge ordered her death.

 

[tizzo]

Originally posted by Farmboy
This does affect ALL of us. The judge ordered her death.
Again, I don't know all the facts, but I am kinda under the impression that her condition ordered her death.

 

[tizzo]

So as this thread goes on, I try to search for more info. When I came across this pic, I stopped dead in my tracks. Everybody that says they should have waited to see if she got better, forgot to mention that in the 15 years she was in this "state" she got progressively worse with no hint of getting better. The left is your brain and the right...that little white dot is hers...:nope:

 

[lionkiller]

Tell Me you have never heard of miracles and then tell me she had no chance.
I can point out hundreds of thousands medical miracles. All people that weren't supposed to "come back".
And she wasn't in a coma for 15 yuears. A coma is when you respond to nothing and just lay their breathing on your own like you are sleeping.

 

[tizzo]

Originally posted by Lionkiller
And she wasn't in a coma for 15 yuears. A coma is when you respond to nothing and just lay their breathing on your own like you are sleeping.

I have heard of medical miracles. And I truly believe they happen. But 15 years!!
And if she was not in a coma, what was she?? I was under the impression...

 

[lovethesea]

an atrophied brain and only electrical activity in the cerbral cortex. that is what you saw as far as movement of eyes and face. The brain would have no chance for a medical miracle it the state it was in. You do not get second chances with brain damage such as hers. Once brain cells are damaged they do not, and will not ever grow back. Its a scientific fact.

 

[tizzo]

Originally posted by lovethesea
Once brain cells are damaged they do not, and will not ever grow back. Its a scientific fact.
Is that kinda like Alzheimer's??

 

[lovethesea]

wow, good question. I will have to ask my aunt. I am not sure if thats what Alzheimers patients end up (at the very end stage of their disease) functioning only on their brain stem. I was also under the impression that we can only assume that people have alzheimers and only upon their death through an autopsy that Alzheimers can truely be diagnoised.
Is there a Dr. in the house....

 

[neoreef]

Children die of malaria, a preventable disease, every day. More Iraqis and soldiers die in Iraq every day.
Bush cuts short his vacation to act on behalf of the life of Mrs. Shaivo, a person in a vegetative state for 15 years.
Human life is precious unless you are from a Third World country, or are Iraqi, or are an American soldier. If so, you are expendable.
Some politicians must think that some humans are more precious than others.
I personally like the bumper sticker that reads " God bless the whole world--no exceptions."
God bless George W Bush, and help him do a better job with the next 4 years honoring life than he has done in the past 4 years.

 

[reefraff]

I love how people talk in such absolutes about this stuff. Terri Could/Couldn't feel pain, She was/wasn't aware. I even see a 9th grader "knows" a fetus isn't a human until it breaths. So a fetus that has gone near or over term isn't a viable life because it hasn't breathed yet. Doesn't say much for the state of our education system.
I think there were 2 sides to the Shiavo argument. I think having the next level of courts (the federal) look at the facts when the family had such a dispute would have been a good thing. I also think her husband could have offered to allow a mutually acceptable expert make one last examination just to give her parents a little piece of mind if he was so sure she was vegitated.
But I also think her family made some accusations the facts didn't support. They say the husband was in it for the money yet when they offered him the exclusive TV and book rights in exchange for divorcing her he turned them down flat and kept fighting which has just about exhausted any funds that were left for her support. They claim he abused her yet he had an autopsy done which, according to the doctors i listened to would show she was strangled as her family claimed. Just a sad deal all around.
All I know for sure is that she is in a better place now.

 

[knots]

neo, do you happen to remember the people of Iraq being tortured and killed at the hands of saddam and his sons? While I do agree that our soldiers and Iraqi's are still being killed, it is not by President Bush.
I believe he did the right thing going to Iraq and I would say with confidence that he wants peace in Iraq as much or more than anyone. This is a President who fights for life more than any other President or politician since President Reagan. Whether it is abortion, Iraqi's, Terry Schiavo, or our soldiers, he is fighting to save lives.
He knows (and so do the soldiers) that no one is expendable but they also know that unfortunately in times of war people die. And he knows that pulling the soldiers out before they should be would cost more Iraqi lives and our soldiers that died doing the right thing would have died in vain. If you would quit listening to just the news and do some research you will find that the soldiers believe they are doing the right thing also.
I agree with that bumper sticker that there should be no exceptions but unless they are a threat to us, the American people probably would never go along with freeing the whole world. But I'm sure you already know that.
It's just easy to try and put down a good President who happens to also be a Republican. I guess I could really get a Liberal vs. Conservative debate going, but I won't do that. You are welcome to have the last comments.

 

[nvmycj]

I've tapped into this thread just last night. There are many valid points to both arguements. Here are some from my point of view.....
I've been a nurse for 11 years. Ten of my eleven years in emergency medicine and now a flight nurse. The last 4 years of my career I've worked in Florida......a very all around F'ed up state. For example.....
If a patient of sound mind and body decided to become a DNR, (do not resuscitate), let's say at age 45. And for some reason at age 61 is brought to the ER for becoming unresponsive, due to a MASSIVE, inoperable brain tumor. So, in order to respect his wishes, we should let him die. But, now if Aunt Jenny, who hasn't seen him in 35 years, comes into the code room and says "NOOOOOO,....do everything you can to save him!!!", we HAVE TO ignore his DNR and do what she desires. And that's only in our Sunshine State.
I've seen many children "brought back" after a near drowning accidents, either from a pool or lake. What are they brought back from? You should see them suffer. Contracted.... ulcerated.....artificially fed. Granted, as a parent myself, it's hard to see your child in this state. Remember, being alive does not mean having a life.
Terri has brain ischemia. Ischemia is defined as an IRREVERSIBLE condition. Ischemia is lack of blood supply to tissues or organs. Blood carries Oxygen, therefore, if there is no blood flowing to you tissues or organs (brain), you receive no oxygen. Without oxygen, you develop IRREVERSIBLE tissue or organ death. She developed an ischemia event. It's that simple. No grey area here. CT scans are proof of this. So stop saying that she can "wake up" at any moment. Get a grip. Read a medical book.
I cannot judge the actions of her husband regards to living with another woman. But here are some points to ponder...
1. Terri's parents REFUSED to give him a divorce.
2. Husband was publicly offered $1 million to leave her feeding tube in. He was offered $10 million privately to do the same. He declined both.
3. All the phone numbers of all the people who called the parents to provide financial support and charity funding, were sold to telemarketers. Thats right,....if you called the family, they sold your phone number to the AVON lady.
On a side not, I think Jeb Bush needs to stay out of this. He's got so many other governmental things to worry about,.... not to mention keeping his daughter off of

[hr]
prescription

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.
Also the so called, "Revered" Jesse Jackson..... That schmuck will do anything to get in the public lime-light. He needs to worry about the illegitamate kids he's fathered.
In summary, make sure you have a living will, IN RIGHTING!!! Tell your family, spouse, loved ones, of your wishes and have them respect your wishes.
Sorry for the lengthy opinions......

 

[farmboy]

NVMYCJ and ALL,
In your opinion, do you think Terry could have taken some kind of nourishment by mouth? Like soft foods. . etc.
If not, then why did that federal judge order her not to be fed by ANY means?
If so, didn't that judge order her death?
$0.02

[hr]
We all need to look at the FACTS of this case and leave our personal wishes/opinions of quality out of life out of it.

 

[broncofish]

You know, if they offered a living will, organ donor, and draft registration all on your 18th birthday this would be so much easier.
My personel feelings. This never should have been made into such a big issue, as usual conservative talk show hosts needed something to lash out at, and needed to blame liberals for it. Plus it helps them sell books, or get ratings. Honestly I am not a doctor nor am I a lawyer so I can't say one way or another about this case. I can say that while I was in the military and away from my parents for ten years that if I had gone into the state this woman apears to be in...well I would want the plug pulled(I have a living will though). I do know that my parents, whom I love, as a pair of rightwing nutjob catholics would step in....even though I had told my wife over and over I don't want to live that way. Well I'm sure the media or whoever could portray my wife as some kind of scumbag, after all we have had a hoop load of problems over the years.
So what it comes down to is, should the person you have chosen to share your life with be responsible for your medical decisions. I think yes. Should the people whom you may or may not agree with on many issues make the decision, I say NO.

 

[farmboy]

Have you ever had a life-changing experience? Has anything so profound ever happened to you that your entire outlook changed? Something to think about. . . .

 

[farmboy]

For all those who don't think people should live this way should maybe examine the practice of plucking LIFE from the wild or farming it to meet our own little needs to keep in our little homes for our own little enjoyments. . . . .Like in a fish Tank. . .

 

[bang guy]

I don't get the connection. Are you saying keeping a fish in a little box is the same as keeping me alive after my brain is totally fried?
I can see both sides of the Schiavo arguement but I'm not following your logic here.

 

[farmboy]

One could argue that life for an ocean dwelling creature living in a 55 gallon box of water is a diminished quality of life. Once they had the whole ocean-now a little tank. Once Terry had the whole world. THen she only had a little part of herself left. I don't know how much. I don't know if anyone really does. We keep animals near us because we love life and we love to experience it. How can one cast away any life---
Was she brain dead or just in a GREATLY diminished state?
If she was brain dead then why was it ordered she not be fed?
How do brain dead people eat?
WHy was she given morphine?
How do brain dead people feel pain?
I know it was a stretch but it got your attention.