Sick of Cyano! Please help.

cam78

Active Member
There is no doubt that water flow does not help with Cyano. These articles also posted relate to fresh water. The idea of cyano not growing in areas of high flow I believe is related to water movement that pushes cyano away from its host (rock, sand etc). I have no issues with cyano in my tank EXCEPT in areas that have high flow with the MP40's. Like I said earlier, NOBODY can tell me or convince me that cyano does not grow in areas of high flow. When I see it first hand in my tank its enough evidence for me. BTW the corners of my tank that have extremely low areas of flow have NO CYANO AT ALL.
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
I think the flow issue about creating cyano is not very true. I think it's a combination of lighting and water quality. Having additional flow in the tank helps keep detritus off the sandbed and swept up into the filtration where it should be removed and cleaned readily. Areas of low flow typically have more detritus build up which cyano can feed off of in those specific areas. By increasing the flow, you decrease the amount of waste build up in the tank for cyano to grow off of.
Even when detritus is expedited out of the aquarium and into filtration, if it is not taken care of it can deteriorate your water quality - and no matter what, that will cause cyanobacterial outbreaks in aread of high flow and low flow.
I've seen cyanobacteria growing on Koralia powerhead outputs. I know that cyano can grow anywhere that it deems fit. lol The problem is mainly water quality. If there is zero nutrients in the water and you have yellow and red lights on the tank - theorhetically (sp??) there shouldn't be any algal growth. (however unlikely.)
 

spanko

Active Member
Well I suppose I will just take the word of the group here over the scientific study produced by the American Water Works Asoociation................................................NOT!
 

tirtza

Member
Thanks for all of your help guys! I'm anxious to get home and see if any new cyano popped up since my battle with it last night. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!
 

tirtza

Member
It's back.....this stuff pops up fast! It's been around 24 hrs since I last siphoned it out (see the pictures in one of my previous posts). The cyano did not come back in areas where the power head is directed towards (that area is super clean and clear of detritus), however it did come back directly beneath the power head (where I suppose there is no current?). I don't know if that solves the flow disagreement or not...
Here's some new pictures I took a few moments ago....
Up-close - Back/Left side (Directly beneath the power head) View from the opposite side of the tank

Front/left corner of the aquarium

 

kiefers

Active Member
I'm sorry if you posted this already but how long do you leave your lights on? I personally recommend 6 hours max for you then use you blues. I believe Henry gave you some good advice on lighting and schedule. Seriously, I don't think you have the corals that need the lights that long anyway right? Seems to me and according to your pics here most of your cyano problem is in the back of the tank correct? Try placing you P.H. on the right side on the glass somewhat in the middle pointing it downward at maybe 45 degrees. Just my thought.
Also, from Mr. Craig Bingman:
Systems that have problematic amounts of cyanobacteria almost always have some combination of physical, chemical and biological problems. Often there is not a unique factor involved, but rather a sum of contributing effects.
Physically:
Water flow and illumination. You mentioned that the cyano are growing mainly in areas of high flow, so low flow seems not to be the problem here.
Terri, you can test your flow very easily by both watching the food when you feed your fish. Watch and see where the food goes. If not able to see this due to the fish eating to quickly, take a piece of bright colored string or yarn, slowly add in the tank while hanging on the the other end. Slowly give some slack and watch where the string goes. Typically, it should circulate through out the entire tank. Anyhoooooo, back to Mr. Bingman.
Chemical:
The testing that you should be concentrating on is testing of the input water into the system. If you have a good growth of cyanobacteria in the system, it is likely that they will be snapping up inorganic nutrients about as fast as you are adding them. Moreover, if you had one nutrient that was high and the other low, you would not know if the nutrient that was high in the system was really "the problem" since the algae might actually be more limited by the nutrient present at low concentrations. Some people suggest limiting feeding in cases like this, and I always have a skeptical reaction to that. Sure, if you are grossly overfeeding the system, you can cut back, but I think most often this sort of advice results in starving fish and other organsisms. Some people are very fond of the model of an aquarium as an "ecosystem" and believe that it should produce adequate food. Well, often that is not the case. I'm more of a "cross flow of nutrients" theorist, meaning that I feed my tank more than most people would, but I have a solid nutrient export mechanism working. A sand bed is not a nutrient export mechanism, except perhaps for nitrogen. Sand beds are mainly nutrient processing areas. Nutrients are rearranged, sometimes into very desirable forms, like invertebrate larvae, but nutrients other than N don't leave the system due to sand bed processes.
Terri, something you must know, you really should try and test your R/O water. Test the trates/phosphates before adding the salt mix, test the phosphates after adding the salt mix (typically before you add to the tank) No matter how much you trust your LFS, the economy is hitting many fish/pet stores. In saying this I mean they too may be taking short cuts and not have there filters changed as directed to save money. I do test ours just to make sure.
Biological:

Cyanobacteria are often pretty good food organisms, and it isn't being consumed? Why? Often it is because you don't have appropriate herbivores in the system. A number of organisms that happily much on cyanobacteria live in sand beds. So a good question is whether or not it is possible that the sand infauna in your system either never was seeded properly in the beginning, or for some reason may have been degraded over time. People have literally written books about live sand, and there are a number of good articles on this subject on the internet. I would suggest reading mainly the contributions by Rob Tonnen and Ron Shimek on this subject. Rob also wrote a two-part feature in FAMA on this subject not too long ago, and it was very worthwhile reading even though there were a couple of minor bugs in the chemistry discussion. ;-)
A piece of advice from one of the oldest hands in the reef aquarium world, Peter Wilkins, is worth repeating at this point. Sometimes a cyanobacteria problem can be resolved by seeding the tank with some sand from a system that doesn't have a problem with cyanobacteria. You also might want to add a small quanity of fresh live sand to your system.
Personally, don't fret, keep up with what you are doing with the water changes and other chores. Persistance!!
Also, and I hate to say it, but once you have tried these and all has failed, you may have to resort to chemical warfare. Look into it and think about it. Just my lil ol opinion.
 

spanko

Active Member
Quote:
you may not believe this but its because of your powerhead pointing down. I don't care what anyone says, Cyno thrives in areas of high flow. if you move that powerhead or shut it off you cyno will start going away. point it directly at something and you'll see cyno will grow there quickly.
My contention here is that low flow is definitely a contributor to the growth of cyano and by not addressing the other concerns that are also contributors this post reads that high flow is a cause of the growth. I am not sure that is what the poster meant to say as it is always hard to read the intent of the written word but as stated in my post and in the AWWA link high flow is a necessary aspect to the eradication of cyano growth. And I think both Seth and Keifers summed up in their posts that there are multiple inputs to cyano growth.
I just don't want anyone thinking that high flow is a cause of cyano.
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Quote:
I just don't want anyone thinking that high flow is a cause of cyano.
And I don’t want anyone to think that cyano cannot continue to multiply in areas of flow.
This is what I think may happen in my tank. There is a spot where the bacteria begin to multiply. No for arguments sake let’s say it is in an area that has the least flow. This bacteria which when growing looks a lot like algae. My tangs being constant grazers pick at it. Not to their liking release it into the water column. It is moved along by whatever flow is present. It eventually gets pushed on a rock and the flow for want of a better word has it pinned there. Now it is in an area where it not only gets light for photosynthesis it also gets any phosphates or nitrates continually passed over it. It is then in fact being helped to continue to grow in an area of flow. The bottom line in my case and I am only speaking for myself is that whenever I have had an area of cyano growth there is obvious flow present
 

spanko

Active Member
Flow is not a cure for cyano. However it is one of the parameters that are needed to battle it.
In your scenario I agree but the stars must be in line for this to happen.
Nitrogen and Phosphorus availability.
Temperature
Alkalinity and Ph.
Light.
Micro nutrient availability.
Flow.
Again there is not one fix to the control of cyano but there is not one cause either.
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Are the stars out tonight?
I don't know if it's cloudy or bright
I Only Have Eyes For You, Dear.
Um in a manly man way Henry of course
 

spanko

Active Member
You're a shinig star, no matter who you are
Shining bright to see what you can truly be
You're a shinig star, no matter who you are
Shining bright to see what you can truly be
Shining star for you to see, what your life can truly be
Shining star for you to see, what your life can truly be
Shining star for you to see, what your life can truly be
Earth Wind and Fire
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Henry don’t leave yet. I was not going to mention this because it would seem like I was making it up. Last week I had some cyano form on a rock that was in a high flow area. I syphoned it off the rock. It is back now in the exact same place. I will try to take some pics BRB
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
It is hard to see I admit but if you look at the center of the first pic you can make out the cyano. In the second and third if you look at the Zoo in the center you can see it to the left center of the zoo. This is the only area I see any cyano and it is in a high flow area. Why same spot why high flow ??????????
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Yea but once I syphon the cyano off you would think that the flow would prevent any more growth of the bacteria from forming even with nutrient leaching
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
That is my thought also. I advised Lois to not only syphon the sand where she was having a problem but to also actually remove some sand from that area for that same reasoning
 

tirtza

Member
Florida Joe and Henry you guys are both stars in my eyes! *****
You have no idea how much I really appreciate everyones help!
Quote:
how long do you leave your lights on? I personally recommend 6 hours max for you then use you blues.
4:30 - 9:30 pm 36 watt compact Blue Actinics (5 total hours)
5:00 - 9 pm 36 watt compact White Fluorescent (4 total hours)
Since I don't have coral yet, should I cut back further on the lights?
Quote:
you really should try and test your R/O water. Test the trates/phosphates before adding the salt mix, test the phosphates after adding the salt mix (typically before you add to the tank) No matter how much you trust your LFS, the economy is hitting many fish/pet stores.
Excellent point Kiefers, I hadn't thought of that. I'm definitely going to test my RO water from now on.
Quote:
A piece of advice from one of the oldest hands in the reef aquarium world, Peter Wilkins, is worth repeating at this point. Sometimes a cyanobacteria problem can be resolved by seeding the tank with some sand from a system that doesn't have a problem with cyanobacteria. You also might want to add a small quanity of fresh live sand to your system.
I'll try some of the other things first (cut back on food, install a better skimmer, and check the flow using the method that you and Flower had suggested). If those tactics don't work, I may consider adding a small quantity of fresh live sand. How is seeding the aquarium with some new live sand possible? I've read that the live sand sold in bags in an LFS really isn't all that great (that's where I originally got mine from, yikes!). Is there a particular brand or place that sells actual live sand? I certainly don't want to get any sand from the aquariums at my LFS...they use mostly crushed coral but the tanks I've seen with sand have massive cyano problems.
Quote:
Personally, don't fret, keep up with what you are doing with the water changes and other chores. Persistance!!
Thanks for the encouragement, the battle rages on!
 
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