So who's burning the Koran on the 11th?

bionicarm

Active Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oscardeuce http:///forum/thread/380081/so-who-s-burning-the-koran-on-the-11th/60#post_3307174
The building were the cultrual center is planned was damaged by debris ( landing gear) from one of the aircraft that hit the WTC. That puts it at "ground zero" in my mind ( or at least close enough for gov't work).
 
Again, my greater point is how the left pushes "free speech" and separation of church and state" for their agenda. I as the same for both sides. Should I go kill because someone put the Savior in urine? No! Yet here they are predicting blood shed over burning a book. Should I not be as inflammed? Why am I asked to turn the other cheek in the name of free speech or are, yet Muslims are not expected to do the same in a similar circumstance. No more double standard.
 
BTW, I am NOT ignorant. I'll put my education up against you education any day.
 
You need to better understand the Muslim culture in order to see what burning this book means to them. This is their most sacred of all documents. They are willing to sacrifice their life for the safety and sanctity of this document. Are they nut cases for having this type of mentality over a book? Yes. Does that matter when they make a statement like this --
 
"It is the duty of Muslims to react," said Mohammad Mukhtar, a cleric and candidate for the Afghan parliament in the Sept. 18 election. "When their holy book Quran gets burned in public, then there is nothing left. If this happens, I think the first and most important reaction will be that wherever Americans are seen, they will be killed. No matter where they will be in the world they will be killed."
 
So where do you draw the line on 1st Amendment rights? Is this pastor's Constitutional rights more important than even one American life that can potentially be lost if this nutjob goes through with this Quran burning? Could this potentially spark another 9/11-style attack? You tell me...
 
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380081/so-who-s-burning-the-koran-on-the-11th/60#post_3307210
 
You need to better understand the Muslim culture in order to see what burning this book means to them. This is their most sacred of all documents. They are willing to sacrifice their life for the safety and sanctity of this document. Are they nut cases for having this type of mentality over a book? Yes. Does that matter when they make a statement like this --
 
"It is the duty of Muslims to react," said Mohammad Mukhtar, a cleric and candidate for the Afghan parliament in the Sept. 18 election. "When their holy book Quran gets burned in public, then there is nothing left. If this happens, I think the first and most important reaction will be that wherever Americans are seen, they will be killed. No matter where they will be in the world they will be killed."
 
So where do you draw the line on 1st Amendment rights? Is this pastor's Constitutional rights more important than even one American life that can potentially be lost if this nutjob goes through with this Quran burning? Could this potentially spark another 9/11-style attack? You tell me...
 
Honestly I agree with you. The burning of the book is the equivalent to shouting fire in a crowded venue. It is a matter of public safety. At the same point, the same argument for flag burning was given as well....so are we saying Muslims in general are less rational than Americans when it comes to their symbols? Bionic, essentially this defence against the book burning is stating that those that Follow Islam are the equivalent to Animals with no ability to control emotions and reactions.
 
So I have to ask...do we treat them equally as part of the human race or do we treat them like animals?
 
I am by no means saying those that follow Islam are animals....Just making the point that some of the arguments about the book burning from a few are implying this.........
 

bionicarm

Active Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/380081/so-who-s-burning-the-koran-on-the-11th/60#post_3307211
 
Honestly I agree with you. The burning of the book is the equivalent to shouting fire in a crowded venue. It is a matter of public safety. At the same point, the same argument for flag burning was given as well....so are we saying Muslims in general are less rational than Americans when it comes to their symbols? Bionic, essentially this defence against the book burning is stating that those that Follow Islam are the equivalent to Animals with no ability to control emotions and reactions.
 
So I have to ask...do we treat them equally as part of the human race or do we treat them like animals?
 
I am by no means saying those that follow Islam are animals....Just making the point that some of the arguments about the book burning from a few are implying this.........
At this stage, it's irrelevent how you treat them. The bottom line is, these people have drawn a line in the sand, and are essentially saying that if you burn their book, they will retaliate. Are you willing to risk American lives because of a belief system or legal right? What's that old saying "Never screw around with a Mama bear protecting its cubs. If you do, you might end up being its dinner."
 
 

acrylic51

Active Member
Quote:Originally Posted by Crashbandicoot http:///forum/thread/380081/so-who-s-burning-the-koran-on-the-11th/60#post_3307190
 
Get over your self Mr High and Mighty. People like you disgust me, use any little excuse to hate. Why don't we just declare the whole damn city a national monument, then we could make all the Muslims move out of New York. Because by your definition of what constitutes "Ground zero" I'm pretty sure most of the town was touched by some sort of debris. You and the rest of your white supremacist buddies could parade around and give speeches, you could use your education to validate your ignorant hate of innocent people.
 
I think its sad that for 9 years the building has sat empty, nobody has wanted to do anything with it. Then when Muslims want to turn it into a cultural center, and do something with the space, possibly even start to rebuild the immediate area, hate spewing Americans like yourself want to damn them and accuse them of spitting in the face of the victims. Who's really spiting in the face of the victims here, the people wanting to rebuild the area or the people like you who would rather see it crumble away into a ghost town? If you want to talk about spitting in faces how about you talk about the Americans living in Japan namely Nagasaki and Hiroshima.  Oh wait this would fall under the do as we say not as we do rule, right?
 
For the record your "education" doesn't exclude your from being ignorant. But since you are so inclined to put it on the line, your spelling needs work as does your grammar and punctuation. You might want to take a refresher course or two. http://mw1.meriam-webster.com/dictionary/ignorant first example has your name written all over it .
Wow!!!!! Trust me pal by no means am I a white supremist by any means. There doesn't need to be any cultural center period there regardless of race, religion whatever. I take it rather personal after serving my great country and would want nothing of the sort there. You should go serve with our men and women and see how you like rounds sent down range on you.
 

naclfish

Member
lets all remember the dutch cartoonist who was killed in broad day light on a busy street in his own country all for portraying Allah in a cartoon... religion of peace and love huh..but we are not here to debate irrational act by religious zelots all faiths have them. As for me I'm gonna toast a Koran under my new Nanotuners lights i just installed this afternoon !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! j/k
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380081/so-who-s-burning-the-koran-on-the-11th/60#post_3307210
 
You need to better understand the Muslim culture in order to see what burning this book means to them. This is their most sacred of all documents. They are willing to sacrifice their life for the safety and sanctity of this document. Are they nut cases for having this type of mentality over a book? Yes. Does that matter when they make a statement like this --
 
"It is the duty of Muslims to react," said Mohammad Mukhtar, a cleric and candidate for the Afghan parliament in the Sept. 18 election. "When their holy book Quran gets burned in public, then there is nothing left. If this happens, I think the first and most important reaction will be that wherever Americans are seen, they will be killed. No matter where they will be in the world they will be killed."
 
So where do you draw the line on 1st Amendment rights? Is this pastor's Constitutional rights more important than even one American life that can potentially be lost if this nutjob goes through with this Quran burning? Could this potentially spark another 9/11-style attack? You tell me...
 
lol using that argument, I think I found a solution for the muslim not a mosque. Sounds to me that the victims of 9/11 aught to ban together and threaten to bomb the place... That way the democrats will be on their side...
 

reefraff

Active Member
That's what is so amusing about this whole mess. Those who respond with violence and hate get special treatment because they might attack us.
 

crashbandicoot

Active Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/380081/so-who-s-burning-the-koran-on-the-11th/80#post_3307224
Wow!!!!! Trust me pal by no means am I a white supremist by any means. There doesn't need to be any cultural center period there regardless of race, religion whatever. I take it rather personal after serving my great country and would want nothing of the sort there. You should go serve with our men and women and see how you like rounds sent down range on you.
 
 
Oh BS, If they were building a church in the same spot nobody would say a damn thing and you know it. Because it wouldn't be an excuse to point fingers and hate people. As a nation we couldn't beat the drum and call our selves such awe inspiring things as REAL AMERICANS, PATRIOTS, or CHRISTIANS.
 
Also please tell me what " you should go serve with our men and women and see how you like rounds sent down range at you" has anything to do with building a cultural center in New York? Oh, wait, I get it, your some how a better human being because you served and went "down range". I like that dramatic twist you used there.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
I guess if all of you really feel like when your time comes, you can stand before your god and justify all this hate for your fellow humans, then good for you.
 
 

speg

Active Member
They should do it...well, hold on... Honestly, I think that people shouldn't just be burning any book but that church here in FL that plans on burning the Muslim form of the Bible can do it if they please.
 
Those who founded this country believed in "FREEDOM OF RELIGION" The church that plans on burning is simply practicing this freedom. This isn't something that we believe, it's what those people believe. I don't believe what other religions do, but they're free to practice their beliefs and I'm free to practice mine. There is no law against burning a book--arson is against a structure or vehicle; they're even getting a permit to burn on that day.
 
It may be a good thing to burn the Qur'an. Maybe it will send a message to the Muslim extremists that America isn't afraid and their terrorist tactics didn't work.
 
 

mrdc

Active Member
Looks like my post has stirred up a hornet's nest!!
 
Well when you start talking about religion, politics and terrorists, I guess it's bound to stimulate some controversial discussion.
 

speg

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashbandicoot http:///forum/thread/380081/so-who-s-burning-the-koran-on-the-11th/80#post_3307231
 
 
 
Oh BS, If they were building a church in the same spot nobody would say a damn thing and you know it. Because it wouldn't be an excuse to point fingers and hate people. As a nation we couldn't beat the drum and call our selves such awe inspiring things as REAL AMERICANS, PATRIOTS, or CHRISTIANS.
 
Also please tell me what " you should go serve with our men and women and see how you like rounds sent down range at you" has anything to do with building a cultural center in New York? Oh, wait, I get it, your some how a better human being because you served and went "down range". I like that dramatic twist you used there.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
I guess if all of you really feel like when your time comes, you can stand before your god and justify all this hate for your fellow humans, then good for you.
 
I honestly don't know the whole story, and I don't know the exact location this is being planned for construction. I'd say that if it's on the exact location of the twin towers then NO. If it's on the outskirts along with other buildings--then who cares? I'm sure many people would argue about that as well. We'll never know because a church wasn't built. However, that area should be treated as a grave--you don't build on a grave. It's a spot where a memorial belongs but not a structure.
 
but to your last few words: Remember that God often was angry with humans and asked man to slay their "fellow humans".
 

bionicarm

Active Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speg http:///forum/thread/380081/so-who-s-burning-the-koran-on-the-11th/80#post_3307233
They should do it...well, hold on... Honestly, I think that people shouldn't just be burning any book but that church here in FL that plans on burning the Muslim form of the Bible can do it if they please.
 
Those who founded this country believed in "FREEDOM OF RELIGION" The church that plans on burning is simply practicing this freedom. This isn't something that we believe, it's what those people believe. I don't believe what other religions do, but they're free to practice their beliefs and I'm free to practice mine. There is no law against burning a book--arson is against a structure or vehicle; they're even getting a permit to burn on that day.
 
It may be a good thing to burn the Qur'an. Maybe it will send a message to the Muslim extremists
that America isn't afraid and their terrorist tactics didn't work.
 
Well since they're gonna have themselves a book burnin', why not do what they did in that movie Footloose? Bring all those eeviil books from the library like "Pride And Predudice", "The Adventures Of Huckleberry Finn", "The Catcher In The Rye", and even those satanical "Harry Potter' series and set them on fire at the same time. That's freedom of expression as well, isn't it?

 
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Wow...this is the best point ever made. You got us. My god you are correct...we wouldn't be complaining. WAIT!!! CHRISTIAN EXTREMISTS DIDN'T TAKE DOWN THE WORLD TRADE CENTER BUILDINGS!!
 
Darth (further proof the public education system is failing) Tang
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashbandicoot http:///forum/thread/380081/so-who-s-burning-the-koran-on-the-11th/80#post_3307231
 
 
 
Oh BS, If they were building a church in the same spot nobody would say a damn thing and you know it.
 

reefraff

Active Member
As a matter of fact the church that stood across the street for like 90 years can't be rebuilt because the parking garage runs under their property. Still trying to figure that one out. They built under their property and that's OK.
 
You people really need to understand the mentality of religion, both now, and in a historical context. The whole reason religion ever came into being, was because people by nature, need an answer to the question "what is the point of my existence?" From the neanderthals who barely had a language, to the Greeks, Romans, the middle ages and so on. People always wanted something to grasp on to to explain "why". Muslim and Christianity are by no means the first groups who created a story to try and get people to "believe". It's been going on as long as people have been around, and more often than not, they search out the lowest common denominator as their target audience.
 
So when you say that all Muslims are terrorists who hate America, it's a fallacy. Just like when you say all Christians are understanding and caring, that's just not true. Most of the people who you find in the "radical" sector of ANY religion, are the ones who have nothing else in their life to grasp on to. They are the ones who are most likely to lean to the radical and outside views of their respective religions, mostly because that gives them the most "control".
 
Look at a lot of the people in the middle east who are considered "terrorists". Most of them are in countries with civil and political unrest, with no education and no career in which they can hang their hat. In the booming metropolis' of the middle east (i.e. Dubai, Tel Aviv, etc) you have people who are very similar to us in the States. Somewhat educated, with a stable income, small family, and usually some kind of religion in their life, but only to the extent that is gives them a feeling of hope. In the middle east and south east Asia, Muslim is the majority. In these higher income families, they are all usually pretty centrist. Just like in the United States. Most of my friends and family are white, upper middle class people, who some attend church, but by no means are fanatical one way or another.
 
However, where I came from in South Carolina, you have a more concentrated number of those who could fall under the "radical" sector of Christianity. There were a number of white supremist groups who said their Christian God was telling them to do the things they did. Also, coincidentally, most of them were uneducated, from the back country, looking for a group to fit in with, since modern society wasn't in their immediate future.
 
Just like when you take a look at the guy who demonstrates at soldiers funerals. They are a small, radical group, of mostly uneducated, white folks, who keep to themselves and stay hidden for the most part.
 
Now lets go to Pakistan, and Iran, Iraq, etc. Most of these people are uneducated, they are poor, they have no future, and then comes along someone who can promise a future. He can promise food, shelter, a purpose. They do this in the name of Islam.
 
That's where I become enraged with most ignorant Americans. What you need to understand, is that these radicalist sects are not Muslim scholars. Their not even really people who really fully understand what being a "Muslim" actually is. They are these men who have nothing else to turn to, so they go where the easiest escape is. A lot of the time, these radical sects are just that. Then, they get a gun, a feeling of power, and before you know it, you have a radical.
 
Instead of blaming "Muslim", we ought to blame their society. With proper education and schooling, jobs and careers, there wouldn't be a need for the radical sect. Look at the US, Japan, China, Brazil, most of modern Europe. We don't have this problem. /p>
 
It's the exact same reason I have been drawn away from my church lately. We have these missions trips all over the world, where we are supposed to "spread the gospel". Yet the church is extremely selective as to who they target. They choose to go to Africa, where running water is a luxury. And then of course they do the whole "we'll provide you with water and food, so long as you let us build a chapel and tell you about Jesus Christ". Talk about a captive audience.
 
If Jesus is really someone who you should feel in your heart, why not take it to colleges, places of intellect, high income areas, etc to spread the word? Why hold it over their heads in exchange for basic needs? There are plenty of places around here that could use Jesus, yet my church (and most churches) tend to go where life is really bad, and people are in need of something...
 
Wrapping this up, I just think it's really sad that the 10%-90% rule applies way too often. It's the 10% that are the bad ones, yet the other groups act like 90% of the people are the ones who act that way. This is across the board... Ignorance is bliss eh?
 

crashbandicoot

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/380081/so-who-s-burning-the-koran-on-the-11th/80#post_3307244
Wow...this is the best point ever made. You got us. My god you are correct...we wouldn't be complaining. WAIT!!! CHRISTIAN EXTREMISTS DIDN'T TAKE DOWN THE WORLD TRADE CENTER BUILDINGS!!
 
Darth (further proof the public education system is failing) Tang
 
 
Read the post I was responding to light bulb. Then give it a few minutes , if you still don't comprehend it don't worry its not your fault( after all public education is failing).
 
 

crashbandicoot

Active Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///forum/thread/380081/so-who-s-burning-the-koran-on-the-11th/80#post_3307255
You people really need to understand the mentality of religion, both now, and in a historical context. The whole reason religion ever came into being, was because people by nature, need an answer to the question "what is the point of my existence?" From the neanderthals who barely had a language, to the Greeks, Romans, the middle ages and so on. People always wanted something to grasp on to to explain "why". Muslim and Christianity are by no means the first groups who created a story to try and get people to "believe". It's been going on as long as people have been around, and more often than not, they search out the lowest common denominator as their target audience.
 
So when you say that all Muslims are terrorists who hate America, it's a fallacy. Just like when you say all Christians are understanding and caring, that's just not true. Most of the people who you find in the "radical" sector of ANY religion, are the ones who have nothing else in their life to grasp on to. They are the ones who are most likely to lean to the radical and outside views of their respective religions, mostly because that gives them the most "control".
 
Look at a lot of the people in the middle east who are considered "terrorists". Most of them are in countries with civil and political unrest, with no education and no career in which they can hang their hat. In the booming metropolis' of the middle east (i.e. Dubai, Tel Aviv, etc) you have people who are very similar to us in the States. Somewhat educated, with a stable income, small family, and usually some kind of religion in their life, but only to the extent that is gives them a feeling of hope. In the middle east and south east Asia, Muslim is the majority. In these higher income families, they are all usually pretty centrist. Just like in the United States. Most of my friends and family are white, upper middle class people, who some attend church, but by no means are fanatical one way or another.
 
However, where I came from in South Carolina, you have a more concentrated number of those who could fall under the "radical" sector of Christianity. There were a number of white supremist groups who said their Christian God was telling them to do the things they did. Also, coincidentally, most of them were uneducated, from the back country, looking for a group to fit in with, since modern society wasn't in their immediate future.
 
Just like when you take a look at the guy who demonstrates at soldiers funerals. They are a small, radical group, of mostly uneducated, white folks, who keep to themselves and stay hidden for the most part.
 
Now lets go to Pakistan, and Iran, Iraq, etc. Most of these people are uneducated, they are poor, they have no future, and then comes along someone who can promise a future. He can promise food, shelter, a purpose. They do this in the name of Islam.
 
That's where I become enraged with most ignorant Americans. What you need to understand, is that these radicalist sects are not Muslim scholars. Their not even really people who really fully understand what being a "Muslim" actually is. They are these men who have nothing else to turn to, so they go where the easiest escape is. A lot of the time, these radical sects are just that. Then, they get a gun, a feeling of power, and before you know it, you have a radical.
 
Instead of blaming "Muslim", we ought to blame their society. With proper education and schooling, jobs and careers, there wouldn't be a need for the radical sect. Look at the US, Japan, China, Brazil, most of modern Europe. We don't have this problem.
 
It's the exact same reason I have been drawn away from my church lately. We have these missions trips all over the world, where we are supposed to "spread the gospel". Yet the church is extremely selective as to who they target. They choose to go to Africa, where running water is a luxury. And then of course they do the whole "we'll provide you with water and food, so long as you let us build a chapel and tell you about Jesus Christ". Talk about a captive audience.
 
If Jesus is really someone who you should feel in your heart, why not take it to colleges, places of intellect, high income areas, etc to spread the word? Why hold it over their heads in exchange for basic needs? There are plenty of places around here that could use Jesus, yet my church (and most churches) tend to go where life is really bad, and people are in need of something...
 
Wrapping this up, I just think it's really sad that the 10%-90% rule applies way too often. It's the 10% that are the bad ones, yet the other groups act like 90% of the people are the ones who act that way. This is across the board... Ignorance is bliss eh?
Well said. Too bad its above the comprehension level of most of the educated Christians on this forum.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Hmmm, I always thought the most telling sign of someone with limited mental ability was their willingness to label others as dumb, ignorant, etc.
 
 
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