Some one PLEASE help me
- Thread starter daver1062
- Start date
btldreef
Moderator
Here's my thoughts:
Your canister filter, combined with the lack of rock work is creating your nitrate issue. There is not enough mechanical or biological filtration going on in your tank, especially with the bioload that is currently inhabiting it.
I really think that you need to look in to doing a hang on the back overflow and sump setup and additional live rock. Personally, I'm not a fan of hang on the back filters for tanks this large, I don't think it's really going to be able to offer you what you need.
This may have been answered, but how do you go about cleaning out your canister filter when you do so? The more detailed explanation you give, the easier it might be to help you. Many people over/under clean their canisters.
How did you go about removing the old sand from the tank? Why did you do this? (Again, this may have been answered, but trying to go back and forth between pages on my iPhone is not easy, and I apologize for that). Removing the old sand, if established might have removed what little established biological filtration you had in there.
It looks as if the sand and the crushed coral are not mixed together, but actually separate in the tank? Yes? I'm not a huge fan of crushed coral, some people have luck with it, but it tends to become a nitrate factory more often than not.
When you do water changes, do you clean off those fake plants and blow off the rocks?
It also doesn't sound like you have much in the way of a clean up crew.
Your canister filter, combined with the lack of rock work is creating your nitrate issue. There is not enough mechanical or biological filtration going on in your tank, especially with the bioload that is currently inhabiting it.
I really think that you need to look in to doing a hang on the back overflow and sump setup and additional live rock. Personally, I'm not a fan of hang on the back filters for tanks this large, I don't think it's really going to be able to offer you what you need.
This may have been answered, but how do you go about cleaning out your canister filter when you do so? The more detailed explanation you give, the easier it might be to help you. Many people over/under clean their canisters.
How did you go about removing the old sand from the tank? Why did you do this? (Again, this may have been answered, but trying to go back and forth between pages on my iPhone is not easy, and I apologize for that). Removing the old sand, if established might have removed what little established biological filtration you had in there.
It looks as if the sand and the crushed coral are not mixed together, but actually separate in the tank? Yes? I'm not a huge fan of crushed coral, some people have luck with it, but it tends to become a nitrate factory more often than not.
When you do water changes, do you clean off those fake plants and blow off the rocks?
It also doesn't sound like you have much in the way of a clean up crew.
daver1062
Member
I used a square tupperware container to scoop out the old sand. All the rocks and plants get washed off in the sink. When I cleaned the canister filter this past sunday I did an over kill thing because of the nitrate problem. Every thing was taken apart rinsed in the sink and reassembled. This weekend the crushed coral is coming out and I will only have about a quater of an inch of aragonite on the bottom. No I do not have a cleanup crew. Would a H.O.T refugium help?
btldreef
Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by daver1062 http:///t/388454/some-one-please-help-me/60#post_3437161
I used a square tupperware container to scoop out the old sand. All the rocks and plants get washed off in the sink. When I cleaned the canister filter this past sunday I did an over kill thing because of the nitrate problem. Every thing was taken apart rinsed in the sink and reassembled. This weekend the crushed coral is coming out and I will only have about a quater of an inch of aragonite on the bottom. No I do not have a cleanup crew. Would a H.O.T refugium help?
Why was the old sand removed?
You're washing the rocks off in the sink???????
As a general rule, only one foam block at a time should get rinsed off at a time if you're rinsing under tap water. I try to rinse them in the waster water from a water change, this way you can clean them, but not kill off the good bacteria (which tap will destroy).
You need a clean up crew. A HOB refugium might help, but honestly, I think it would just be a band aid on a bigger issue. The tank does not have proper filtration.
Originally Posted by daver1062 http:///t/388454/some-one-please-help-me/60#post_3437161
I used a square tupperware container to scoop out the old sand. All the rocks and plants get washed off in the sink. When I cleaned the canister filter this past sunday I did an over kill thing because of the nitrate problem. Every thing was taken apart rinsed in the sink and reassembled. This weekend the crushed coral is coming out and I will only have about a quater of an inch of aragonite on the bottom. No I do not have a cleanup crew. Would a H.O.T refugium help?
Why was the old sand removed?
You're washing the rocks off in the sink???????
As a general rule, only one foam block at a time should get rinsed off at a time if you're rinsing under tap water. I try to rinse them in the waster water from a water change, this way you can clean them, but not kill off the good bacteria (which tap will destroy).
You need a clean up crew. A HOB refugium might help, but honestly, I think it would just be a band aid on a bigger issue. The tank does not have proper filtration.
daver1062
Member
I removed the old sand because it was all brown. I am a little afraid of installing a overflow with a sump what happens when the power goes out and the sump over flows? Yes I rinse them in the sink. Here is my plan for this weekend. I am removing all the rocks and crushed coral. Spreading out the aragonite to cover the bottom. All filtration systems will be cleaned and I will buy about a hundred of dollars worth of live rock. Put new purigen and chemipure nitrate and phosphate removers in my filter. Is this a good or bad plan?
btldreef
Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by daver1062 http:///t/388454/some-one-please-help-me/60#post_3437167
I removed the old sand because it was all brown. I am a little afraid of installing a overflow with a sump what happens when the power goes out and the sump over flows? Yes I rinse them in the sink. Here is my plan for this weekend. I am removing all the rocks and crushed coral. Spreading out the aragonite to cover the bottom. All filtration systems will be cleaned and I will buy about a hundred of dollars worth of live rock. Put new purigen and chemipure nitrate and phosphate removers in my filter. Is this a good or bad plan?
That brown that you see is not necessarily a bad thing. It's diatoms. It's a natural part of the tank process, and the addition or change of anything in the tank, even a change in flow or lighting can cause it. It will go away on its own.
Do NOT remove the rock that is in there. But I do definitely think that you should add to it. I would recommend 75-100lbs depending on what the pieces look like. You could save yourself some money and buy half as cured live rock and half as dry base rock. The live rock will seed the base rock over time and it too will become live rock.
There are safety measures that you can do to make sure that in the case of a power outage, your sump does not overflow. They're very simple. I ran external overflows on my 155 and NEVER had it overflow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by daver1062 http:///t/388454/some-one-please-help-me/60#post_3437172
I forgot to add even thogh I put the aragonite in 2 weeks ago it is already getting a coating of brown stuff.
See above.
Originally Posted by daver1062 http:///t/388454/some-one-please-help-me/60#post_3437167
I removed the old sand because it was all brown. I am a little afraid of installing a overflow with a sump what happens when the power goes out and the sump over flows? Yes I rinse them in the sink. Here is my plan for this weekend. I am removing all the rocks and crushed coral. Spreading out the aragonite to cover the bottom. All filtration systems will be cleaned and I will buy about a hundred of dollars worth of live rock. Put new purigen and chemipure nitrate and phosphate removers in my filter. Is this a good or bad plan?
That brown that you see is not necessarily a bad thing. It's diatoms. It's a natural part of the tank process, and the addition or change of anything in the tank, even a change in flow or lighting can cause it. It will go away on its own.
Do NOT remove the rock that is in there. But I do definitely think that you should add to it. I would recommend 75-100lbs depending on what the pieces look like. You could save yourself some money and buy half as cured live rock and half as dry base rock. The live rock will seed the base rock over time and it too will become live rock.
There are safety measures that you can do to make sure that in the case of a power outage, your sump does not overflow. They're very simple. I ran external overflows on my 155 and NEVER had it overflow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by daver1062 http:///t/388454/some-one-please-help-me/60#post_3437172
I forgot to add even thogh I put the aragonite in 2 weeks ago it is already getting a coating of brown stuff.
See above.
btldreef
Moderator
I give you a lot of credit for trying to do the right thing. You don't need to do everything at once. Of course, in some ways (other than monatarily), doing it all at once is just easier.
Here's my suggestion:
Don't do anything until you have everything you need, some things may need to be ordered online if you can't find them locally.
Get a sump (30-40G would be ideal), overflow box (or two) and return pump, along with tubing for return pump. I'd go with AT LEAST 900GPH on the return. I really like Eshoppes overflow boxes. CPR makes a decent one as well, but personally, I ended up having far more issues with the CPR than I ever did with the Eshoppes. Get an overflow (or two) that can at minimum handle 200GPH more than the return pump you will be using (extra safe guard against flooding). As for the sump, if you're a Black Friday shopper and have a local *****, you might want to see if they're running any deals on their tanks. They run $1/Gallon sales on tanks every so often, and usually do on Black Friday, so you could save a lot and pick up a 30-55G tank for $30-$55 as opposed to what some sumps can cost. Measure under your stand ahead of time so you know what will fit.
Get a rubbermaid container, as large as you can find, drain the water from your tank into the container and place fish in the container with the Fluval running on it. Toss the rocks that you already own in with them, even the fake plants, so they don't feel completely out of sorts.
Either remove the crushed coral, OR mix it into the rest of the aragonite sand you already have. Add another bag or two of sand, it's really personal preference on how much sand since you're not going with a deep sand bed. I like to have a 2-3" sand bed personally. Here's the tricky part: Technically rocks should be added before sand. This provides a more solid foundation for the rocks, and then the sand acts to hold them into place. I have added rocks AFTER sand without any issues, but you really have to push the rocks into the sand and make sure they're secure. My suggestion would be to add in the rocks, THEN add the extra sand to add more support once the rocks are firmly in place. You can add in all the rock in one shot, or do a small order of half and half and then add to it. It's really up to what you want to spend up front, etc. Getting it all done at once really does make things easier. Try to get some branch pieces. Use these to create openings in the rock work, for flow and for your fish.
Set up overflows, sump, return pump. Add in your rock and sand. Fill tank with newly made water (put the water in by dumping it through a pasta strainer or splashing over a dinner plate, this helps to minimize how much sand it kicks up and the water will clear up faster. Let the new setup run over night while fish are in the rubbermaid. One night in the rubbermaid will not kill them, especially with the Fluval running. Definitely test, and if anything is out of whack, do a water change. For an added measure, you might want to pick up a small bottle of SeaChem Prime. Drop a cap full in when you first add the fish and water, it works as a stress coat AND can help keep ammonia levels down. USE ONLY A CAP FULL. Too much and it can de-oxagenate the water. If you end up having to do a water change, add another cap with the new water.
Next day: Test main tank. If everything looks good and the water is clear, toss in fish. Make sure you have extra water on hand as you may experience a spike for the first few days (week). Add fish with 1-2 cap fulls of Prime. Rinse the foam blocks from the Fluval in the left over water in the rubbermaid bucket that the fish were in and but them back in. Do a quick rinse of your media bags in the same water and toss them back in. Hook the Fluval back up to the 125. Since you own the Fluval, you might as well use it as extra water movement and a place for your media. I did this on my 155. Even though I had a full sump system setup, I removed all the foam and basically used the Fluval FX5 as a powerhead and a media reactor. After two weeks, remove a foam pad, then another, etc, all along testing.
Add CLEANERS.
This SHOULD help your issue.
Here's my suggestion:
Don't do anything until you have everything you need, some things may need to be ordered online if you can't find them locally.
Get a sump (30-40G would be ideal), overflow box (or two) and return pump, along with tubing for return pump. I'd go with AT LEAST 900GPH on the return. I really like Eshoppes overflow boxes. CPR makes a decent one as well, but personally, I ended up having far more issues with the CPR than I ever did with the Eshoppes. Get an overflow (or two) that can at minimum handle 200GPH more than the return pump you will be using (extra safe guard against flooding). As for the sump, if you're a Black Friday shopper and have a local *****, you might want to see if they're running any deals on their tanks. They run $1/Gallon sales on tanks every so often, and usually do on Black Friday, so you could save a lot and pick up a 30-55G tank for $30-$55 as opposed to what some sumps can cost. Measure under your stand ahead of time so you know what will fit.
Get a rubbermaid container, as large as you can find, drain the water from your tank into the container and place fish in the container with the Fluval running on it. Toss the rocks that you already own in with them, even the fake plants, so they don't feel completely out of sorts.
Either remove the crushed coral, OR mix it into the rest of the aragonite sand you already have. Add another bag or two of sand, it's really personal preference on how much sand since you're not going with a deep sand bed. I like to have a 2-3" sand bed personally. Here's the tricky part: Technically rocks should be added before sand. This provides a more solid foundation for the rocks, and then the sand acts to hold them into place. I have added rocks AFTER sand without any issues, but you really have to push the rocks into the sand and make sure they're secure. My suggestion would be to add in the rocks, THEN add the extra sand to add more support once the rocks are firmly in place. You can add in all the rock in one shot, or do a small order of half and half and then add to it. It's really up to what you want to spend up front, etc. Getting it all done at once really does make things easier. Try to get some branch pieces. Use these to create openings in the rock work, for flow and for your fish.
Set up overflows, sump, return pump. Add in your rock and sand. Fill tank with newly made water (put the water in by dumping it through a pasta strainer or splashing over a dinner plate, this helps to minimize how much sand it kicks up and the water will clear up faster. Let the new setup run over night while fish are in the rubbermaid. One night in the rubbermaid will not kill them, especially with the Fluval running. Definitely test, and if anything is out of whack, do a water change. For an added measure, you might want to pick up a small bottle of SeaChem Prime. Drop a cap full in when you first add the fish and water, it works as a stress coat AND can help keep ammonia levels down. USE ONLY A CAP FULL. Too much and it can de-oxagenate the water. If you end up having to do a water change, add another cap with the new water.
Next day: Test main tank. If everything looks good and the water is clear, toss in fish. Make sure you have extra water on hand as you may experience a spike for the first few days (week). Add fish with 1-2 cap fulls of Prime. Rinse the foam blocks from the Fluval in the left over water in the rubbermaid bucket that the fish were in and but them back in. Do a quick rinse of your media bags in the same water and toss them back in. Hook the Fluval back up to the 125. Since you own the Fluval, you might as well use it as extra water movement and a place for your media. I did this on my 155. Even though I had a full sump system setup, I removed all the foam and basically used the Fluval FX5 as a powerhead and a media reactor. After two weeks, remove a foam pad, then another, etc, all along testing.
Add CLEANERS.
This SHOULD help your issue.
btldreef
Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by daver1062 http:///t/388454/some-one-please-help-me/60#post_3437206
This may take me a week or two to accomplish this whole project. What type of cleaners do you recommend with the existing inhabitants that are in my tank now?
Thank you for your info.
Well, all your fish, even the ones that would be questionable with inverts look to be rather small, so you might be able to get away with shrimp. If they're in the tank while the fish are juveniles, the fish may learn that they are not prey. I'd try either 1 Coral Banded or 2 Fire or Skunk Cleaner Shrimp.
For snails (not added all at once unless you really wanted to):
20 Trochus
20 nassarius
20 Astrea or Nerites
You could replace the Astrea's with Hermits, I just don't like hermits because they tend to kill snails for sport.
Other cleaners to consider:
Sally Lightfoot Crab
Emerald Crab (once your tank gets more established and has algae to support its diet)
Urchin (once your tank gets more established and has algae to suppport its diet)
Originally Posted by daver1062 http:///t/388454/some-one-please-help-me/60#post_3437206
This may take me a week or two to accomplish this whole project. What type of cleaners do you recommend with the existing inhabitants that are in my tank now?
Thank you for your info.
Well, all your fish, even the ones that would be questionable with inverts look to be rather small, so you might be able to get away with shrimp. If they're in the tank while the fish are juveniles, the fish may learn that they are not prey. I'd try either 1 Coral Banded or 2 Fire or Skunk Cleaner Shrimp.
For snails (not added all at once unless you really wanted to):
20 Trochus
20 nassarius
20 Astrea or Nerites
You could replace the Astrea's with Hermits, I just don't like hermits because they tend to kill snails for sport.
Other cleaners to consider:
Sally Lightfoot Crab
Emerald Crab (once your tank gets more established and has algae to support its diet)
Urchin (once your tank gets more established and has algae to suppport its diet)
snakeblitz33
Well-Known Member
Just throwing this out there... but you could save money by using one large rubbermaid as your sump container and using a smaller rubbermaid to fit inside the larger one for your sump. All you need is a container that will hold water. The smaller container can hold your filter media, bioballs, base rock, live rock, whatever you want. Drill some holes in the bottom of it and set it inside your larger rubbermaid so that it sits just off the bottom of the bigger container. I've used those kinds of cheap sumps for years without problems. Saves $$ with not having to buy a glass aquarium for a sump, all the glass baffles, silicone etc. But - having a glass aquarium sump makes everything look cleaner. lol. When it comes to larger tanks, I go cheap when I can, and splurge on the lights, skimmers, and powerheads.
You can mix live rock with base rock. I wouldn't do anymore than 50% base rock in your tank though, and 50% live rock. The more base rock you have compared to live rock the more algae problems you may have in the future. Base rock will bulk up the amount of rock in the tank - and save you some money.
You can mix live rock with base rock. I wouldn't do anymore than 50% base rock in your tank though, and 50% live rock. The more base rock you have compared to live rock the more algae problems you may have in the future. Base rock will bulk up the amount of rock in the tank - and save you some money.
btldreef
Moderator
Not really. Some will tell you that rock from certain places is better, worse, etc. It really is all live rock when it comes down to it and I've found the difference to be minimal. Some areas do get better shaped pieces, such as Tonga which has amazing branching pieces. Just go with what looks good and works with your budget.