Squidd I'm Almost Ready To Move To The Basement!!

[lubeck]

Ha Ha... that still doesn't fix my ro/di. I am going to check it tomorrow since I ran it for about 4 hours, we'll see if it changes. I did some tweaking tonight, I don't know if it made it worse or what. I am getting very irritated with these bubbles. I can fix water parameters but can I fix bubble problems? It seems my fuge pumps out way too many bubbles. I will wait till morning to see.

 

[squidd]

The question is...do the fuge bubbles make it back to the return chamber...?
As large as the fuge is (huge baffle chamber) they should dissapate before getting to chamber "D" or causing excessive water fall (blue line)...
Unless you are running too much flow thru fuge...
Remember the "H" pipe we talked about..?...This may be a good tine to "try" slowing flow thru fuge and diverting thru overflow drain chamber...
Or...you could add an overflow drain chamber type baffle to the fuge side as well...:thinking...

 

[lubeck]

Originally Posted by Squidd
The question is...do the fuge bubbles make it back to the return chamber...?
Yes, but they are on top of the water
As large as the fuge is (huge baffle chamber) they should dissapate before getting to chamber "D" or causing excessive water fall (blue line)...
Unless you are running too much flow thru fuge...
This is probably the case
Remember the "H" pipe we talked about..?...This may be a good tine to "try" slowing flow thru fuge and diverting thru overflow drain chamber...
If all else fails this I will try
Or...you could add an overflow drain chamber type baffle to the fuge side as well...:thinking...
That is an interesting thought.
Have a Nice Easter, if you celebrate it.

 

[lubeck]

Squidd,
Well this is what I did so far:
Using the ball valves on both the 1" and 3/4" drain lines, I turned them slightly to reduce drain flow, this did help the fuge as well as the sump. It does seem that there is still alot of flow that is causing larger bubbles. I hope in the morning it is less bubbly. I do know however if I did put the sponge back into the chamber before the return line the bubbles would stop. I believe little more fine tunning might do the trick but we will see.
Still if you have any additional suggestions that would be appriciated. Thanks so much for all of your help thus far. I will post some pics soon. Also, I was wondering maybe after the ASM skimmer runs for a week or so, it may also help the bubble problem. I was also considering putting a large sock of carbon in the red chamber, what do you think? At least until I get a reactor do you think it would be ok?

 

[lubeck]

On another note, do I need to order a holding chamber for the the auto top of? I want to order the pic I showed you a few posts back, is there anything else I need? Do I need a pressurized tank or something? Will I be able to run a seperate line to make fresh salt water batches?

 

[squidd]

The carbon bag and or the sponge between the baffles will work (sort of)"IF" <<< big "if"<<< you clean them regularly, often, a lot, continously, a lot, religously, a lot...
Biggest problem there is they can become deitrus traps if left too long..so clean them "a lot"...

 

[squidd]

As far as the RO/ATO....
Two issues with it:
1. If float valve become "stuck" open, can allow a continuous flood of fresh water which will not only flood your sump, but lower salinity to intolerable levels...(never happened to me, regular maintenance helps, but still a possibility) Option is a storage tank and float valve to limit the amount of water available to flood tank/lower salinity (see pic below)
I used this type system for several weeks to test reliability of float valve ATO (it's going to be as reliable as any "switched/pump" system) before going direct to RO...With the room you have in the basement, it may not be a bad option..(little tougher to set to gravity height under a stand)
2. "Short Cycle" on RO membrane is not good...Membrane needs to come to pressure and equalize to run effeciently...if unit turns on and off for one cup "refills" several times a day, can damage membrane...
Home based units with faucet in sink, have bypassed this "short cycle" ("I want a cup of water" :jumping: ) by adding a "pressurized storage tank" in line with the system..
Holding 2 to 4 gallons in "reserve" the RO unit does not turn on and of all day long, but only when the storage tank has emptied and then the unit can run several hours, as it was designed, to refill the tank...
I have my RO with a 4 gallon Pressurized storage hooked up to both my tanks (with DI) and the sink faucet (RO only) AND an additional line to refill my WC tub...(again after DI)...
Once the line is pressurized, it will push water all over the house, so you can run as many lines as required...

 

[lubeck]

So what you are trying to say is.... when I get the ATO you will help me set it up???? Haa Haa Haa!!!
Just kiding, but not really.
I did raise my water level (red line) to pretty much even with B chamber. This seems to have eliminated the large bubbles, although the small bubbles are still present, just not in the magnitude they were. I did this by reducing the flow of both the 1" and 3/4" drain line. This of course raised the level of my display tank and lowered the level of sump/fuge, which in tern, I had to add more water. My durso are not half but more like 3/4" of the way up. I don't know if this is creating the bubbles though. I believe the bubbles are strictly caused by natural gravity and flow. I think the flow is too fast through the fuge and sump, not letting the bubbles disapate before getting to the return line. What do you think?
I really think I am getting closer, I just hope I am doing it the right way and not defeating the whole purpose of the fuge/sump. I know that I should not put filters ect. BUt if I run carbon and change it every week do you see a problem? Meaning, if the carbon bags dooooooo omit the bubble problem, I will put fresh carbon in every week if I have to. what do ya say? can I, can I. I am going to go buy the top off system right now.

 

[lubeck]

I hate to jump the gun here but... I just sold my seios last week and the dude wants them now. I need a recommnedation of what pump to buy for closed loop. I don't remember but, how many gph is the return on my tank? In any case, I want a total of 25x turnover. Random current would be good I think.
I can't afford a 4 ocean motion but would be a nice christmas present, so just an FYI.
In a perfect world with lots of money, I would like a 4way ocean motion with a sequence dart pump. What do you think? I want to make sure though, I have plenty of noise so far, and want to keep it at a minimum. So, if that means I need to run it from the basement I will.
Thanks
Bob

 

[lubeck]

What about a quite one pump, like the 6000 model? Just getting other ideas.

 

[squidd]

If the carbon bags work (eliminate bubles) and you change them weekly (carbon runs out after a short while anyway) then that may be a solution for you..But as you can see a little tweaking here and there is helping...your going in the right direction...
I think the flow is too fast through the fuge and sump, not letting the bubbles disapate before getting to the return line. What do you think? ... I need a recommnedation of what pump to buy for closed loop. I don't remember but, how many gph is the return on my tank?
This may be a good time to rethink this part...What pump did you end up with for return...?? Maybe we lower this...slow the flow to S/F... and use the pump for the C/L..??

 

[lubeck]

I have the mag24 for the return right now. What if I just turned the ball valve. I know this will put some stress on the mag24 but until i get the right flow it may be the solution to the problem.

 

[squidd]

Try it...
If a little "tweak" does it, we're good to go..
If you have to crank it way down, but it helps we resize the pump...
If you crank it way down and it doesn't get better...we know it's not "too much" flow causing bubbles...

 

[lubeck]

Well, I put the carbon in about 2 hours ago and it seems to be helping out. I will adjust the return and drain lines tonight.
I did do a water change today, should I be cleaning the fuge walls of the algae or just leave it for the "bugs" to eat??? Is it necessary to clean the bottom of the sump/ skimmer chamber every time? Or a better question, how should maintenance "be" for the fuge/sump?
Also, should I purchase my closed loop hardware now and wait on the pump?

 

[lubeck]

Originally Posted by Squidd
Try it...
If a little "tweak" does it, we're good to go..
If you have to crank it way down, but it helps we resize the pump...
What does "way down" mean? More than a 1/3?
If you crank it way down and it doesn't get better...we know it's not "too much" flow causing bubbles...

I don't think this is going to be the problem.

 

[lubeck]

Can't Win... For Loosin...
I have two red starry hermit crabs... yesterday one had dug deeper than usual and I think has released nitrous gasses. There are now tons of bubbles all over the rocks and sand and, where theres algae on the wall. This is not the first time it has happened. I think I will be taking the hermits in the lfs for a comp...
Does the symtoms of the tank sound right? I do have a DSB, I can see streaks of gray in the middle of the sand bed. Why and/or what is happening? I don't know about you, but I am soooooooooooo frustrated, I have spent over 40hrs of my time and almost 1000dollars and the tank is in shambles. I really hope things come around for the better. I just want the best home for my corals. and I guess my fish too.

 

[lubeck]

What pump should I get for closed loop?
Here is the ATO and the spray nozzles and other hardware for the closed loop.
Am I forgetting anything????
I am getting 30feet of the blue line for ATO.
I am getting 3 each of spray nozzle and hose ect.. for the closed loop.

 

[squidd]

I have two red starry hermit crabs... yesterday one had dug deeper than usual and I think has released nitrous gasses. There are now tons of bubbles all over the rocks and sand and, where theres algae on the wall. This is not the first time it has happened. I think I will be taking the hermits in the lfs for a comp...
Does the symtoms of the tank sound right? I do have a DSB, I can see streaks of gray in the middle of the sand bed. Why and/or what is happening? I don't know about you, but I am soooooooooooo frustrated, I have spent over 40hrs of my time and almost 1000dollars and the tank is in shambles. I really hope things come around for the better. I just want the best home for my corals. and I guess my fish too.
Sounds like you got a couple things going on at the same time here and that can be frustrating...chasing one problem whie another forms...
First off...bubbles (from sump) do not hurt or harm the tank, corals or fish...they are just annoying as hell till they are gone...think of the waves crashing over the reef and the air, bubbles and foam there...
But bubbles from as DSB are different...as well as the "fresh" LR causing a mini cycle...
I run BB in my reef and SSB in my FOWLR, so I can't help you much with the goings on of the DSB layers and gases...it is a complex mini ecosystem of it's own and while adding benifits for some can add to headachs for others...I tend to stay away from them for that reason...
My suggestion would be to stuff this thing full of foam (if that kills the bubbles and concentrate on stabilizing the tank and parameters if that is a concern...We can always get back to "tweaking the system when you have a clear head and stabil tank (vacation will help..

)
Closing valve 1/2 or more would be "way down" and suggest a smaller pump... the first 1/3 of a ball valve doesn't really do much as far as restriction...Did that seem to help...?
As far as maintenance schedule.. I probably (do) spend more time cleaning the tank than messing with the sump/fuge...But when I do get to it I give it the good old once over..pumps skimmer, vac the bottom of the chambers scrape the walls etc...
My fuge is generally not a "pretty' sight, it's there to grow Macros...I really don't have much "hair" or micros going on, mostly just salt "splash" and smudgy glass...
Do have a decent clean up crew in fuge (snails, crabs, worms, etc...) they do most of the work...Pods are cool, but they come and go in cycles, so I don't pay them much mind...or give them much credit...
Back to main tank and C/L...did you say the seios were sold...? so your without supplemental flow at the moment...?
With approx 900gph from sump return, you are in the low flow zone, so that "might" be compounding your in tank issues...
So maybe it is time to look at a OTT C/L system...

 

[lubeck]

WoW! Your answering this late!! Just kiding.
What do you want me to stuff?
I just ordered the ATO and everything else i mentioned above. Meaning the nozzles and the like.
I did turn down everything it has stopped the bubbles, even though I can't see theDT tank cause the lights are off. I would say the return valve is pretty close to 1/2 way turned. I will post a pic tomorrow. Between the carbon and and the slower flow it seems that it is going to work out, fingers are crossed. I was hoping becuase I turned down the flow I could make it up with the closed loop without and still efficiently utilizing the sump/fuge, does this sound good? Will it be OK to have the flow slower?
As far as the seios yes they are sold and I just removed them this afternoon. I do have a max jet 1200 in the tank now until i get the closed loop done.
I was going to use my 9.5 for CL until I get advice on another pump.
I do not have any clean up in the fuge yet, I will get some when i trade in the red starry hermits.

 

[lubeck]

Should I use 3/4" for closed loop or 1"? I was figuring 3/4 because it will have more pressure and actually move the water more readily, right? I wanted to go to Home depot today to get the rest of the plumbing so I was wondering how critical the size was. I have all the pipe just need the fittings. I did turn down everything and the bubbles did go away. I am afraid i will have to get a different pump. What the heck am i going to do with the mag 24? should I use it for the closed loop? if I keep it down in the basement or at least raise it up closer to the floor that way i don' have too much flow going in the closed loop. Should I get the mag18 then for the return?