STOP the delivery of nitrates

beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Wait until you guys start shutting and starting pumps twice a day and find that you can't actually start the pumps back up after a few times.
I wonder where the detritus is going to end up? Perhaps clogging up the pumps now? A tank is supposed to have a lot of circulation, including moving within the rocks and along the sandbed. Once pumps are started, the detritus will just move into the water column and be taken up by pumps and filters. Unless, of course, you start also vacuuming the tank every day as well.
For every minute you deprive your tank of circulating water, that is time depriving your tank of oxygen.
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
You may be missing something here Beth. It has been said to shut down the filter - sump pumps, but to leave the internal power heads going. I have an MP 10 that goes into feed mode when I feed. Other have Reefkeepers with feed mode. Still other have Koralias or other internal pumps for flow.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Yeah, I just went back and read that....so the detritus now ends up in the pumps?
I guess if one was going to have bioballs, they might set up a prefilter system so that detritus could be mechanically removed by something else first, perhaps a filter pad system that could be changed out weekly?
To me, most tanks set up correctly can resolve all these issues without the man-made filters. A balanced tank where the life support available is equal to the bioload of the tank is ideal, however, if you wish to overstock, add several fish in at once, etc., then you may look to bioballs to help you out.
Just don't come to the Disease Forum complaining about your high nitrates if you make that decision, cause I don't want to hear it.
 
ophiura

ophiura

Active Member
I still will say that for many in this hobby, who are new, inexperienced and inadvertenty overstocked, overfeeding, etc...(and IMO most are), an extra biomedia type system will be a security blanket.
It does not come without other problems in some cases...but as I've stated I would rather have a nitrate problem than an ammonia problem. In large fish only systems, your only biological filtration (or the majority of it) may be bioballs, as in the case in many public aquaria.
In systems set up as reefs, or after some degree of experience and learning about proper stocking, feeding and maintenance, a more "natural" approach is fantastic and strongly encouraged. But it requires a lot of discipline.
I think it is rather like taking training wheels off a bike. You don't need training wheels but you might well come back with some major skinned knees and such. Or you can just learn the hard way...just that learning the hard way often means you don't learn to ride the bike at all. Many people sell their tanks after that first crash. That being said you can still fall with training wheels. Everything has risk.
These are, IMO, different philosophies and there are many ways to be successful.
I do tend to turn my main pump off during feeding, but more so that the bottom critters have a chance to get it before it is gone. I do believe prefilters are important and that they need to be cleaned very very frequently. Prefilters or even filter pads are NOT biological filters as many think!
But leaving the pumps off, IMO, means you better have a good clean up crew. While your food maybe is eaten the poop will still end up somewhere too...and often that is in the bioballs. Often people with really messy bioballs have a lot of indications of dead areas and such in the tank itself.
There is nothing inherently "evil" in bioballs as seems to come out sometimes. They are just a different surface for biological growth. The emotions - approaching hatred - is unwarranted. They are what they are. Like anything they require a bit of care or finding what works best.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Just don't come to the Disease Forum complaining about your high nitrates if you make that decision, cause I don't want to hear it.
As many a truth is said in jest lets hope no one confuses high nitrates with a disease
Who enjoys showing off their bioballs and filter pads, as opposed to those who can be proud of a thriving DSB, macro tank, refuguium?
There is no aesthetic value in a DSB as apposed to a one inch sanded IMO
There is a great difference in a “show refugium” and a working contributing refug. The working refug is not a pretty site. But I would love to see pictures of beautiful refugiums that are actually helping reduce nitrates
so the detritus now ends up in the pumps?
why would you think that
Oh no your getting off topic. Joe's gonna be furious.
Do you advocate going off topic
And, ironically, cleaning these things destroys their biofilter capacity.
That’s why you do not clean them all at once
I idea to replace your bio balls with live rock or rubble which seems to be the answer 90 percent of the time people get when they post this problem. “I have high nitrates and bio balls what should I do” is not IMO a sure fire thing anaerobic denitrification is slow if established at all there are just to many variables porosity, advection rate, amount of nitrates trying to be eliminated.
Not wanting to get into the “natural tank set up” but I must say this. Hobbyist might want to research the Lee chin Eng natural system. Who as far as I know was the first to try it?
If we fast forward to the Jaubert’s Monaco system and study it we find out this to be true. The system does not need nor should have a large amount of live rock. The natural filtration is accomplished by the gravel and the rock is for aesthetic purposes only as it is very deficient in denitrification
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3120440
To quote Don Corleone
Every time I…………
Henry can you fill in the blanks ?
Sure:
..."get out, they keep on bringing me back in ..."
PS you all best watch out in case Joe makes you an offer you can't refuse!!!!!
 
uneverno

uneverno

Active Member
Ok, so lemme 'splain what I've gotten out of this. No, is take too long, lemme sum up:
The introduction of less organic material into our closed systems will result in less organic waste prodution in the form of Nitrates.
Not to stray too far off point, but please bear with me for a moment. The Nitrogen cycle is not completed w/ the production of Nitrates. For most of us, however, that is the end result because our systems are not designed to eliminate Nitrates. In the real world, Nitrates are then taken up by anaerobic bacteria and/or plants. Thus, the conclusion drawn to reduce Nitrate levels is frequently the addition of a deep sand bed, an algae scrubber and/or a fuge w/ macro-algae or mangroves or some such, each of which has its own inherent problems.
The solution to pollution being dillution, it is logical to say that that starts with adding less potential pollutants to begin with. In turning off the pumps, it is far easier to control not only the amount of pollutants we add, but also where they end up.
In other words, an Oz. of prevention is worth a pound of bioballs.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/3120489
Sure:
..."get out, they keep on bringing me back in ..."
PS you all best watch out in case Joe makes you an offer you can't refuse!!!!!
I'm going to blame some of the people in this room, and that I do not forgive. But, that aside, let me say that I swear, on the souls of my grandchildren, that I will not be the one to break the peace we've made here today."
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by uneverno
http:///forum/post/3120555
Ok, so lemme 'splain what I've gotten out of this. No, is take too long, lemme sum up:
The introduction of less organic material into our closed systems will result in less organic waste prodution in the form of Nitrates.
Not to stray too far off point, but please bear with me for a moment. The Nitrogen cycle is not completed w/ the production of Nitrates. For most of us, however, that is the end result because our systems are not designed to eliminate Nitrates. In the real world, Nitrates are then taken up by anaerobic bacteria and/or plants. Thus, the conclusion drawn to reduce Nitrate levels is frequently the addition of a deep sand bed, an algae scrubber and/or a fuge w/ macro-algae or mangroves or some such, each of which has its own inherent problems.
The solution to pollution being dillution, it is logical to say that that starts with adding less potential pollutants to begin with. In turning off the pumps, it is far easier to control not only the amount of pollutants we add, but also where they end up.
In other words, an Oz. of prevention is worth a pound of bioballs.
where the hell have you been all these posts
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
I never wanted this for you. I worked my whole life, I don't apologize, to take care of my family. And I refused to be a fool dancing on the string held by all those big shots. I don't apologize, that's my life. But I thought that when it was your time that you would be the one to hold the strings.
 
rlablan

rlablan

Active Member
Wow. this thread got intense.
I was never really told to, but I have always shut my over flow off, and I leave my koralia and my internal over flow on. Just to keep the food from settling. My fish sometimes take a bit to come out and eat.
I don't use bio balls, but I think the same thing is true across the board.
The original point was made that you should shut them. I do it for two reasons. I don't like it feed alot. I feed exactly what I need, only a few times a day. This keeps my maintenance down and my tank clean. If the pumps were on, all the food would be in the refugium, in my LRR and my fish would be hungry and I would have to feed more, only to get more food in the fuge.
It would never end. Shut the overflow off!
Cran- I really like your little invention. I forget to turn things back on too, so that would be great for me!
Great thread!
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
I was never really told to, but I have always shut my over flow off,
And that is what this hobby is all about, praise the lord ,thinking for your self. Stop and think what the best solution is for a potential problem and implement that solution. In this hobby we are not our brothers keepers
 
nuro

nuro

Member
this is fascinating to me. ive had my 55 up for about a year and half and have not yet cleaned the bioballs, however i do run a DSB and religiously do a 10% water change once a week. within the first 6 months of the tank i had low levels of trates but once i added a HOB fuge with 3 mangroves i reduced them to nothing. granted ihavnt had a ong term experience with my tank, i do like the idea of leaving the left over food in that tank.. as long as there is proper methods of removing the left overs. i feel as if i didnt have thr HOB regardless of balls id still have a trate problem.
 
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