T5 vs Metal Halide debate answered

hot883

hot883

Active Member
Originally Posted by baytran7
I'm not arguing, i'm open to anything anyone says, i just want solid data that can steer people in the right direction of understanding Lighting. The one thing I hate most are people who talk and talk and talk, yet have no evidence to support their theories, as a Marine Biologist major I am focused on Hard evidence and not he said/ she said. If it is not backed by any research and have gone through the Observation, Hypothesis, Experiment, Analysis, Theory Stages, I have no use for it. I have said it before and I will say it again, if you don't have any proof to your statement, don't bother posting it because it is a non-educated guess. Why not just come out and say, I am sitting on a high horse and I know everything in the universe so what I say you must believe. From this post you see alot of people wanting good info on which light to use, and you guys are giving your opinions without any proof. In my book, UNPROVEN ADVICE = BAD ADVICE.
bay, not to beat a horse or argue; I tend to go with those that can prove their "attitude" with experience. Oceana has the finest stock around. I have seen his tanks and own several of his corals. They are impressive to say the least. I have not seen yours. I will do basically what Oceana says because I know it works. I think that this thread is very confusing for those that want to learn.
 
matt819

matt819

Member
It's Frank Esser's tank...you can see more at *Link Removed*, check out the feb 06, and look up frank esser's tank...BEAUTIFUL, huh?
 
baytran7

baytran7

Member
got it from Viper930, great guy to deal with, 1 month. If you notice, I put some SPS on the bottom of my tank and still get good growth. Now tell me if Par and 30 inche high tank is far fetched? That is hard core proof that those guys crying about Par and depth are giving out bad advice. I've had that Anenome for 4 years, it's split many times and i've given the babies away. Is that enough Par for you, the thing is bottom half of my tank.
 
tx reef

tx reef

Active Member
Originally Posted by baytran7
got it from Viper930, great guy to deal with, 1 month. If you notice, I put some SPS on the bottom of my tank and still get good growth. Now tell me if Par and 30 inche high tank is far fetched? That is hard core proof that those guys crying about Par and depth are giving out bad advice. I've had that Anenome for 4 years, it's split many times and i've given the babies away. Is that enough Par for you, the thing is bottom half of my tank.

I got mine from viper also.
Mine has already grown 1/16" in 1 week.
I know that people have had success with T5s, but they are no comparison to MH. No one will ever convince me otherwise.
I didn't see an anemone (it is spelled anemone, not anenome) in any of the pics. If it is a BTA, I know that Thomas kept them under VHOs and had them split like crazy. Some people have even had success with BTAs with PCs.
It looks like you also got an atlantis pink polyp from viper, also. I got a couple of those from him too.
I would like to see pics of those in a couple of months to see if they have kept their color and if they have grown as fast as mine.
Here are pics of mine... https://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/showthread.php?t=233838
 
tx reef

tx reef

Active Member
Originally Posted by baytran7
got it from Viper930, great guy to deal with, 1 month. If you notice, I put some SPS on the bottom of my tank and still get good growth. Now tell me if Par and 30 inche high tank is far fetched? That is hard core proof that those guys crying about Par and depth are giving out bad advice. I've had that Anenome for 4 years, it's split many times and i've given the babies away. Is that enough Par for you, the thing is bottom half of my tank.
Put that superman and atlantis on the bottom and see what happens.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Exactly it's only 1 month and time will tell....Not saying you can't keep SPS with T5's that was never the issue, but they don't have the same penetration as the MH's........Give it time.....1 month doesn't mean much show us in 6 or 8 months....
 
piscesblue

piscesblue

Member
I wouldn't use the word "superior."
I used the word superior for both. It all depends on your application.
Pros use halides? I've seen guys kill every animal in the sea when they use halides because they don't know about water quality, some guys have PCs and keep Stonies and Clams alive for years,
Exactly what I said. You don't need MH until you can keep a proper tank.
A pro is a guy who writes for Aquarium Fish Magazine, has kept shoals of Morish Idols or colonies of Gonioporas all these kept with knowledge instead of luck for years.
Agreed. A pro is somebody who successfully frags SPS and and is eligible for the tank of the month.
You are an amateur buddy, your post just proved it.
Agreed. I've been in the reef hobby for only 6yrs and bred Tanganykan Cichlids and Discus for 6yrs prior to that. 12yrs of quality fish husbandry only qualifies me as an amatuer. I've been a member of this board since 2001 and have watched many debates unfold. What are your references?
So let's revisit my statement and to make it super clear for you guys just itchin to fight, we'll change the wording and make it clear that this is a recommendation for anyone who wants to start a reef or upgrade their lighting.
Pro / Advanced (people with many years experience who want/need the best and have the ability to grow/frag SPS and keep the most advanced fish) I RECOMMEND Metal Halide fixtures
Intermediate / Average (people who know what they are doing and are wanting to advance into more difficult corals/fish) I recommend T5's
Beginner / Sucker (people who are just starting and are overly influenced by people online who they will never meet or by predatory LFS' and idiot employees of retail chains) These are the people who will be convinced to purchase Power Compact fixtures. PC's are not bad for this application, but obviously reach their limits quickly if the beginner aquarist masters thier water quality and desires more than mushrooms and starpolyps.
 
baytran7

baytran7

Member
Originally Posted by acrylic51
Exactly it's only 1 month and time will tell....Not saying you can't keep SPS with T5's that was never the issue, but they don't have the same penetration as the MH's........Give it time.....1 month doesn't mean much show us in 6 or 8 months....

there is a monti that is 8 inches in diameter on the bottom of the tank, I got it when it was 2 inches in diameter. I think that growth took alittle longer then 1 month. You are failing to realize that there you cannot measure par because it will be different in every tank (due to particles). THAT is why no manufacturer will ever use it to advertise their product. Lumens is a standard that no matter how deep it is or how far it is, will still be a standard, only thing that will affect lumen is age and heat. Sure there will be less light at the bottom of the tank, but do you think it will be as dramatic? Don't go by Par, it is too varied, I would only use it if it were 3 foot plus. You are wanting to use this thread as an argument, that is why you specifically singled out 1 coral that i've had for 1 month, I am only trying to help other hobbiest out in understanding the factors that affect efficiency.
 
tx reef

tx reef

Active Member
The superman is being singled out because while it may grow, it could very possibly lose its nice color with that lighting.
Montiporas are lower light SPS. There are people that have successfuly kept them under PCs near the top of the tank. So the fact that you can keep one at the bottom of the tank is no big deal. If you moved it up higher, it would grow like crazy.
 
tx reef

tx reef

Active Member
Originally Posted by oceana
As stated above the Ge site and such studies are not using the bulbs we use in the hobby. The numbers are much different when used in our application.
You simply can not make a statement saying T5 Vs MH. It’s like saying my apple taste just like a grape. They just can’t be put up against each other.
Everyone talks about the power cost. But no one talks about the fact then when bulb replacement time come the t5 user is replacing several bulbs while the mh guy replaces one. The cost becomes very similar over the term of one year.
IE: I have lots of tanks. They are all plumbed together to make one large system. On some of the tank there are t5 and others having mh. The difference in color, growth and health is night and day. The MH wins by several hands. If it did not I would use T5. In order to speak about what is better and what is not I think it is important that HANDS ON research is done in a controlled study. Heck you can’t even use separate tanks because the make up of the tanks could be slightly different causing different results. That’s why systems like mine which are all made up of the same temp and same body of water work great for comparisons.
I have both I can afford what ever lighting system I want. I chose MH because it gives the highest quality results year after year. Once it does not or once something comes along that will prove to be better I will change. The only reason to choose t5 over mh is because the user has space or heat issues and simply can’t use mh.
In short MH is simply better BUT not always best for all applications. They both have there place but you can NOT compare the two. If there is any local person that would like to swap some corals and see whom ends up with more growth and color feel free to let me know. PS: I have done this before and both people that did it now own MH.
As for the WPG thing being dumb that’s very true and I think you will find that the only people really using that are new to the hobby and have not figured that out yet.

This post by oceana sums it up and really should be the final say.
 
baytran7

baytran7

Member
Originally Posted by TX Reef
I got mine from viper also.
Mine has already grown 1/16" in 1 week.
I know that people have had success with T5s, but they are no comparison to MH. No one will ever convince me otherwise.
I didn't see an anemone (it is spelled anemone, not anenome) in any of the pics. If it is a BTA, I know that Thomas kept them under VHOs and had them split like crazy. Some people have even had success with BTAs with PCs.
It looks like you also got an atlantis pink polyp from viper, also. I got a couple of those from him too.
I would like to see pics of those in a couple of months to see if they have kept their color and if they have grown as fast as mine.
Here are pics of mine... https://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/showthread.php?t=233838

thank you for correcting my spelling, You are truly a smart person especially at midnight after a couple of beers. Don't brag about your growth because there is more to good growth then light, and if you can measure 1/16 of an inch then you have more time then sense. I will will let you slide on the "but they are no comparison to MH" comment because you are set in your mind and it makes no difference to me if you don't understand nor want to learn about efficiency. Show me how many lumens your fixture produces, now and in 1 year. I bet it will be less efficient after a year compared to T5s, they retain their efficiency much longer. see my first post on this topic and you will see actual numbers taken off the Sylvania Product Catalog on your MH performance. Ok, oceana's post, given he is a nice guy, he is no lighting engineer for any company. Why can't we compare the 2? Walmart does it, SAMS does it. They compare which one is most efficient and used used that technology to implement it over their stores nationwide. Both give light, both work, which one did they choose. Your statement has no basis.
 
tx reef

tx reef

Active Member
Originally Posted by baytran7
thank you for correcting my spelling, You are truly a smart person especially at midnight after a couple of beers. Don't brag about your growth because there is more to good growth then light, and if you can measure 1/16 of an inch then you have more time then sense. I will will let you slide on the "but they are no comparison to MH" comment because you are set in your mind and it makes no difference to me if you don't understand nor want to learn about efficiency. Show me how many lumens your fixture produces, now and in 1 year. I bet it will be less efficient after a year compared to T5s, they retain their efficiency much longer. see my first post on this topic and you will see actual numbers taken off the Sylvania Product Catalog on your MH performance. Ok, oceana's post, given he is a nice guy, he is no lighting engineer for any company. He has no basis for claiming that so it does not hold any truth. Why not say God told me MH is best because you are doing it right now.
I had a couple of rum and cokes last night. It didn't effect my spelling.

Anyway, you are thick headed and refuse logic.
If a person has several tanks all connected, you will have the same water in each tank, so the water quality will be the same in each tank.
If you have different types of lighting on each tank, then differences in coral growth can be directly attributed to lighting.
Oceana wrote that the corals under MH grow much faster and have better color than the corals under T5s.
How can you deny that MH give better growth and color after reading this?
 
tx reef

tx reef

Active Member
Originally Posted by baytran7
thank you for correcting my spelling, You are truly a smart person especially at midnight after a couple of beers. Don't brag about your growth because there is more to good growth then light, and if you can measure 1/16 of an inch then you have more time then sense. I will will let you slide on the "but they are no comparison to MH" comment because you are set in your mind and it makes no difference to me if you don't understand nor want to learn about efficiency. Show me how many lumens your fixture produces, now and in 1 year. I bet it will be less efficient after a year compared to T5s, they retain their efficiency much longer. see my first post on this topic and you will see actual numbers taken off the Sylvania Product Catalog on your MH performance. Ok, oceana's post, given he is a nice guy, he is no lighting engineer for any company. Why can't we compare the 2? Walmart does it, SAMS does it. They compare which one is most efficient and used used that technology to implement it over their stores nationwide. Both give light, both work, which one did they choose. Your statement has no basis.
I measure growth of my corals in order to establish what kind of growth rate I can expect. It does not take much time at all.
 
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