T5 vs Metal Halide debate answered

oceana

Active Member
As stated above the Ge site and such studies are not using the bulbs we use in the hobby. The numbers are much different when used in our application.
You simply can not make a statement saying T5 Vs MH. It’s like saying my apple taste just like a grape. They just can’t be put up against each other.
Everyone talks about the power cost. But no one talks about the fact then when bulb replacement time come the t5 user is replacing several bulbs while the mh guy replaces one. The cost becomes very similar over the term of one year.
IE: I have lots of tanks. They are all plumbed together to make one large system. On some of the tank there are t5 and others having mh. The difference in color, growth and health is night and day. The MH wins by several hands. If it did not I would use T5. In order to speak about what is better and what is not I think it is important that HANDS ON research is done in a controlled study. Heck you can’t even use separate tanks because the make up of the tanks could be slightly different causing different results. That’s why systems like mine which are all made up of the same temp and same body of water work great for comparisons.
I have both I can afford what ever lighting system I want. I chose MH because it gives the highest quality results year after year. Once it does not or once something comes along that will prove to be better I will change. The only reason to choose t5 over mh is because the user has space or heat issues and simply can’t use mh.
In short MH is simply better BUT not always best for all applications. They both have there place but you can NOT compare the two. If there is any local person that would like to swap some corals and see whom ends up with more growth and color feel free to let me know. PS: I have done this before and both people that did it now own MH.
As for the WPG thing being dumb that’s very true and I think you will find that the only people really using that are new to the hobby and have not figured that out yet.
 

laxzach

Member
Oceana I would love to swap some corals. I live in Maitland. Just outside of Orlando. I am going to set up a new 25gal reef and I really wat to put MH on it but I want to see what magic they can work. This would be the perfect way. Please send me an email.
 

fishieness

Active Member
oceana made some very good, and sometimes overlooked points. a lot of the t5 vs MH discusstions depend on who is the one measureing. the t5 companies will measure their unit to a POJ metal halide. PFO did the same thign with their solaris.
one thing i would like to add that many people usualy forget about
:
that number of lumens that t5 gives out in your studies is for a 48" distance. it is pretty much even distrabution. while a 250 watt MH bulb is only about 8-9 inches long. the lighting source is much much more concentrated.
PS: dont be a wuss... what iw ouldnt give to have our thermostat set to 71 at night..... here at my house (in the foothills new england by the way where it gets REALLY cold compared to you austin people) we turn OFF the heating at night. plus my house is over 250 years old.... so the insulating properties that usualy come along with a house are lacking.... lol ***)
 

rykna

Active Member
Originally Posted by baytran7
72 degrees? damn that is cold. My wife won't let me turn it lower then 79. I live in Austin Texas.
When my hubby and I moved to Richmond, Virginia the people there though we were nuts. Both of us having grown up in Wisconsin are used to wearing shorts and tshirts down to into the 50 degree area. So we're out walking in our shorts in late october temp is mid 60's. Every is wearing parkas and such and looking at us like we're looney bins.
 

reefiness

Active Member
Originally Posted by chilwil84
8 t5s at 20 160 two mh 75- 120 basically same bulb cost
there is another flaw to this... which brand T5 for $20 and which brand MH plus whats the K rating on the MH.
so lets stop trying to compete and leave it at what Oceana said... he has the most valid point to the argument and his vote has the most weight on accont of his setup(s)
 

1journeyman

Active Member

As I understand it, only MH's can penetrate the full depth of the tank. They also look much more "natural" to me (dive a shallow reef and you'll see shimmer lines like crazy).
This is an interesting thread, but the science behind it seems faulty to me.
 

hot883

Active Member
Originally Posted by oceana
As stated above the Ge site and such studies are not using the bulbs we use in the hobby. The numbers are much different when used in our application.
You simply can not make a statement saying T5 Vs MH. It’s like saying my apple taste just like a grape. They just can’t be put up against each other.
Everyone talks about the power cost. But no one talks about the fact then when bulb replacement time come the t5 user is replacing several bulbs while the mh guy replaces one. The cost becomes very similar over the term of one year.
IE: I have lots of tanks. They are all plumbed together to make one large system. On some of the tank there are t5 and others having mh. The difference in color, growth and health is night and day. The MH wins by several hands. If it did not I would use T5. In order to speak about what is better and what is not I think it is important that HANDS ON research is done in a controlled study. Heck you can’t even use separate tanks because the make up of the tanks could be slightly different causing different results. That’s why systems like mine which are all made up of the same temp and same body of water work great for comparisons.
I have both I can afford what ever lighting system I want. I chose MH because it gives the highest quality results year after year. Once it does not or once something comes along that will prove to be better I will change. The only reason to choose t5 over mh is because the user has space or heat issues and simply can’t use mh.
In short MH is simply better BUT not always best for all applications. They both have there place but you can NOT compare the two. If there is any local person that would like to swap some corals and see whom ends up with more growth and color feel free to let me know. PS: I have done this before and both people that did it now own MH.
As for the WPG thing being dumb that’s very true and I think you will find that the only people really using that are new to the hobby and have not figured that out yet.
I have done very well in this hobby because of you Oceana, so to me your statement ends the debate for me. Thanks, Barry
 

chilwil84

Active Member
it is all opinions with personal experience there are many variables that most hobbiests cant account for and opinions of color that also affect it i am a t5 fan i like the way they look, my coral grows good, and i have all types of coaral including sps and clams other people have the same opinions of mh mh have the advantage of being around longer so they have proven themselves until some real longterm studies compare them it is all opinion
 

reefiness

Active Member
Originally Posted by chilwil84
it is all opinions with personal experience there are many variables that most hobbiests cant account for and opinions of color that also affect it i am a t5 fan i like the way they look, my coral grows good, and i have all types of coaral including sps and clams other people have the same opinions of mh mh have the advantage of being around longer so they have proven themselves until some real longterm studies compare them it is all opinion
ya a personal experience wouldnt be a reliable source but Oceana has Proof. he has a tank set up to the same water so there are no variables except the light which to me sounds like a science experiment and he said the coral under MH is growing faster and better colors. so oceana is really the only person who has a reasonable say in this big T5 MH debate, what everyone else says means poopy.
 

baytran7

Member
what does it matter the manufacturer? when you brush your teeth do you use toothpaste or gasoline? crest, colgate, aquafresh, they are all the same thing. if you were brushing your teeh with gasoline then i'd take the time to do a comparison. a bulb is a bulb, kelvin is kelvin, a watt is a watt. if it were to make a difference i doubt it would affect it that much. 1% maybe? or do you think it would affect it 50% brighter if i were using a sylvania ballast over another brand? ***)
besides, do what you want with lighting but at the end of the month all of us will have reef tanks, some of us will just have more money in our pockets.
One more thing, for those who want to know what I used for comparison, I used sylvania ballasts for both T5 and Halides, I used both GE and Sylvania for lamps (2 comparisons), I don't claim to know anything, i'm just stating what the lighting engineers at GE and Sylvania put in their catalogs. If you think the Halide is better I think you should start a lighting company and put those 2 guys out of business.
 

oceana

Active Member
Originally Posted by baytran7
what does it matter the manufacturer? when you brush your teeth do you use toothpaste or gasoline? crest, colgate, aquafresh, they are all the same thing. if you were brushing your teeh with gasoline then i'd take the time to do a comparison. a bulb is a bulb, kelvin is kelvin, a watt is a watt. if it were to make a difference i doubt it would affect it that much. 1% maybe? or do you think it would affect it 50% brighter if i were using a sylvania ballast over another brand? ***)
besides, do what you want with lighting but at the end of the month all of us will have reef tanks, some of us will just have more money in our pockets.

a bulb is a bulb?? this statement could nto be any more wrong.. the difference in bulbs is HUGE!!! one 20K bulb can be ALOT different then another. please try out many many brands on your set up and then see if you can still make this statement. it is a very uneducated statement. as for ballast same thing. not as big of a difference but the difference can be measured in some cases to be a rather large amount. you must match bulbs to the ballast they are meant to run on.
this info is even more important with t5. the cheapo T5 bulbs running around the internet are complete crap. most of them are putting off pars and temps that can harm your corals and will produce many unwanted effects.
so like you said. we will all end up with reefs at the end of the day right? but wouldnt you want that reef to look its best?
 

baytran7

Member
Like I said, i only used GE and Sylvania, so I don't know anything just what GE/Sylvania siad and made an uneducated statement, I didn't compare 20k to 6500k I used the 5000k to 6500k so I'll leave 20k out of it, but if i were to use 20k lamps/bulbs the lumens would be less. Yes, less....
I gave you numbers so if you want to talk to me about this topic i'd like for you to bring numbers also, as I am only interested in the truth and have no time to waste on "oh, he said this is better so it must be better post."
Numbers, bring numbers......
 

oceana

Active Member
Originally Posted by baytran7
Like I said, i only used GE and Sylvania, so I don't know anything just what GE/Sylvania siad and made an uneducated statement, I didn't compare 20k to 6500k I used the 5000k to 6500k so I'll leave 20k out of it, but if i were to use 20k lamps/bulbs the lumens would be less. Yes, less....
I gave you numbers so if you want to talk to me about this topic i'd like for you to bring numbers also, as I am only interested in the truth and have no time to waste on "oh, he said this is better so it must be better post."
Numbers, bring numbers......

you are using numbers that belong in a warehouse not a fish tank. i used 20k as a quick number reference. but any number there you want. dont get blinded by self serving MFG numbers that in the real world never pan out. use what your tank tells you is best. if for you that is T5 then great. my point is that the debate does not end becasue some MFG says so in a study that has nothing to due with are application. the flaw in the thread is the title.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by baytran7
a bulb is a bulb, kelvin is kelvin, a watt is a watt....
I totally disagree. That's like saying in a car "horsepower is horsepower".
Companies use different benchmarks and different test scenarios...
 

matt819

Member
I am preparing to buy an ice cap retro t5 kit with 4 of the icecap SLR's(reflectors). It comes with the 660 ballast and overdrives the bulbs so they will have to be replaced about every year. I'm going to get the ATI lamps with it...the par readings and penetration from everything I've read, especially over at the other big forum, says this is just as good as halides...if not better, because of heat issues. Plus you get uniform light throughout the whole tank...from one end to the other, no spotlight effect, I hate that. No to mention they can be fit inside a shallow canopy nicely so you don't have to have a 12" canopy above your tank to fit everything. I will still be running fans, because it's been proven to increase the par of the bulbs if you keep them cooler.
 
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