Tea Party Movement

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishtaco http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/380#post_3316305
I would have to disagree, the minute any of these Tea Party people have to choose between what is actually written and what is written in another book you are going to see how fast they trash the Constitution if they get in power. Sorry, but I guess since I live in Oregon I missed getting those special white-wash glasses that makes whatever far-right or tea party stance acceptable as long as it is not Democratic or the idea of a secret socialist muslim nazi who stole an election to illegally sit in office.
Fishtaco
How many tea party people do you know? Based on some of you lame comments I'd say none.
 

fishtaco

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/400#post_3316315
How many tea party people do you know? Based on some of you lame comments I'd say none.
I'd say you know deep down I am right. The Tea Parties complete inablity to distance themselves from social conservatism has been a real disapointment to me. Christine O'Donnell anyone? Nope, she only thinks you can pray the gay out of people, evil scientists have created mice with human brains and yes she said that and evolution is a lie, that sure sounds like I am wrong about this and that she will be able to set-aside her beliefs and form fair policy based on the needs of a diverse group of Americans, give me a break.
Fishtaco.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishtaco http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/400#post_3316330
I'd say you know deep down I am right. The Tea Parties complete inablity to distance themselves from social conservatism has been a real disapointment to me. Christine O'Donnell anyone? Nope, she only thinks you can pray the gay out of people, evil scientists have created mice with human brains and yes she said that and evolution is a lie, that sure sounds like I am wrong about this and that she will be able to set-aside her beliefs and form fair policy based on the needs of a diverse group of Americans, give me a break.
Fishtaco.
Social conservatism if fine and good placed in the proper context. If Christine O'Donnell want to pray the gay out of people what do you care? As long as she doesn't try to legislate the gay out of them it's none of our business. Also she commented on a report about scientists who have indeed created mice with human brain cells. It seems Ms O'Donnell is better informed than you and me cause I didn't know about it either
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/12/1214_051214_stem_cell.html
 

fishtaco

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/400#post_3316397
Social conservatism if fine and good placed in the proper context. If Christine O'Donnell want to pray the gay out of people what do you care? As long as she doesn't try to legislate the gay out of them it's none of our business. Also she commented on a report about scientists who have indeed created mice with human brain cells. It seems Ms O'Donnell is better informed than you and me cause I didn't know about it either
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/12/1214_051214_stem_cell.html
Except she left out "cells" and I've seen the interview and her intent was that evil science had created mice with human brains. I like you Reef, but your "any port in a storm" mentality when it comes to conservatism saddens me, why can't you just admit there are just as many turds in the punch bowl on one side as on the other?
Fishtaco
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishtaco http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/380#post_3316261
I can't help it stdreb if you are supporting a form of government that long-term is going to look like what they have in Iran. The problem with the far-right religious movement is that as a group they don't respect or put any value on people like myself who belong to a "other" religions and will throw out "We The People" in a heartbeat. As an example, what place do you think the far-right will have in our society for homosexuals? If you say anything other than the rating of a second class citizen or even worse you are just fooling yourself.
You are such a cheerleader for the far-right that you don't really have the ability to think straight and I am hoping once you get a little older you will understand how dangerous the herd mentality really is. In the meantime I suggest you get on U-Tube and watch Bridge To No Where or Jesus Camp just so you can feel good about people with the same views as you.
I bet it feels great voting for canidates that believe people and dinosaurs co-existed. LOL
Fishtaco
You're advocating what you're accusing christians of doing? You're saying it is "we the people (except christians)" Last I checked, that view is the view of the herd, while mine is not... Watch any TV lately? See the prez not quote "by our creator"?
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishtaco http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/400#post_3316407
Except she left out "cells" and I've seen the interview and her intent was that evil science had created mice with human brains. I like you Reef, but your "any port in a storm" mentality when it comes to conservatism saddens me, why can't you just admit there are just as many turds in the punch bowl on one side as on the other?
Fishtaco
You seem to be the one with the "any port in a storm syndrome". One vote out of 100 doesn't matter except when it comes to selecting the leader of the Senate. If there were 30 other Republicans who where crazy far right (which I am not even sure O'Donnell is, I know little about her) I would feel differently, maybe. Remember we are talking about taking out the leadership who brought us Cap and Tax, Obama Care and Spenduless. I as well as a whole lot of other voters are voting against, not for this year.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Fishtaco, I agree with you about the third (brewsters millions) Option. But then w might end up with a government with no leadership for a long time...lol.
Which amendment in the Constitution conflicts with Christianity? You said the far-right Christians would not be against subverting the Constitution if it contradicts with their religious views....give me an example of this being possible.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
You could start with the First Amendment. It's not explicitly stated in that Amendment, but Freedom of Expression has always been referenced to the first, and argued in the Supreme Court. Christians are widely known to be against the rights of gays (Don't Ask, Don't Tell). You could also indirectly roll abortion into the 'rights; of an indivdual. We know how the Christians stand on that issue.
It's a stretch, but you could have some radical Christian try and circumvent the 21st Amendment (Repeal of Prohibition). I've already told you they do a form of this in Dallas, with their various 'dry areas'. Get enough of those 'free thinkers' in there, and they may want to modify the 21st to limit some forms of alcohol sales. There's already talks in Texas where a bunch of Texas Senators and Reps want to implement a form of 'sin tax' on alcohol. We're heading for an $18 billion shortfall next year, and they need to boost tax revenues somehow. So add a "Texas Alcohol Stamp" to the label of every bottle and beer can. Want to drink in Texas? It'll cost you...
 

stdreb27

Active Member
both of you are no better than the characterization you guys are creating. You have no problem inflicting your own views on everyone. You demonize the intent and people who created this country to begin with. If this is your hanging point, you guys lack any intellectual honesty...
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/400#post_3316488
You could start with the First Amendment. It's not explicitly stated in that Amendment, but Freedom of Expression has always been referenced to the first, and argued in the Supreme Court. Christians are widely known to be against the rights of gays (Don't Ask, Don't Tell). You could also indirectly roll abortion into the 'rights; of an indivdual. We know how the Christians stand on that issue.
It's a stretch, but you could have some radical Christian try and circumvent the 21st Amendment (Repeal of Prohibition). I've already told you they do a form of this in Dallas, with their various 'dry areas'. Get enough of those 'free thinkers' in there, and they may want to modify the 21st to limit some forms of alcohol sales. There's already talks in Texas where a bunch of Texas Senators and Reps want to implement a form of 'sin tax' on alcohol. We're heading for an $18 billion shortfall next year, and they need to boost tax revenues somehow. So add a "Texas Alcohol Stamp" to the label of every bottle and beer can. Want to drink in Texas? It'll cost you...
Christians are one of the most discriminated groups in our society by the government. If a christian wants to rent out a basement apartment in their home and refuses to rent to a gay person based on their first amendment right to practice their religion they can be fined. A woman in New Mexico was fined 6000.00 by the so called Human Rights commission for refusing to photograph a gay commitment ceremony, New Mexico doesn't allow for gay marriage. I am not saying some Christians aren't out to legislate away gays but most I know are simple against granting special rights to gays that make them a protected class, at the expense of other people's rights.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Lets jump back to the wars in asia and europe you were never taught about. WW2, WW1, Korean. three major wars that after two of them we maintained a significant military presence that has prevent future wars. the other we did not...and it led to another war. So wait and see
Now on to your latest attempt at an intellectual point.
1. The military does not fall under constitutional law completely. If this were the case, the military personnel would have to abide by the laws of each state concerning drinking. This is not the case..where every citizen in the U.s. must wait till 21 due to state laws, The military personal on base have this right at 18. Thus this circumvents the 21st ammendment....because the Military does not fall under constitutional law....Even their court system is different.Thus don't ask dont tell is not covered by the constitution.
2. Go read the 21st amendment. Please do it. Because it is clear you have no clue what you are speaking of.All the 21st did was give control back to the states...so your state and county are circumventing nothing and doing what is within their rights. To circumvent the 21st at the federal level they would need to amend the constitution, meaning the would have to follow the process set forth by the constitution, meaning they are still following the constitution to do this. See, the framers knew some amendments would need changed or added as time went on, so they put in place a difficult process to meet this. Changing the constitution is not unconstitutional, as long as it is done by the constitutional process. If there was an amendment created stating we no longer could bare arms. This WOULD NOT be unconstitutional, as it was created through the amendment process.
Abortion has been ruled on by the supreme court..The court is appointed by the president and confirmed by congress...but a judge must retire, and to overturn the previous ruling we would need three justices to step down and be replaced by those with like views on abortion....This is almost as difficult as amendment change....HOWEVER if the supreme court did change and a case was presented, the judges ruled against abortion being constitutional, then the constitutional process has been served and this action is not unconstitutional. I am against abortion, but I have never stated it is unconstitutional...
So, again, which christian/religious views could be viewed unconstitutional.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/400#post_3316488
You could start with the First Amendment. It's not explicitly stated in that Amendment, but Freedom of Expression has always been referenced to the first, and argued in the Supreme Court. Christians are widely known to be against the rights of gays (Don't Ask, Don't Tell). You could also indirectly roll abortion into the 'rights; of an indivdual. We know how the Christians stand on that issue.
It's a stretch, but you could have some radical Christian try and circumvent the 21st Amendment (Repeal of Prohibition). I've already told you they do a form of this in Dallas, with their various 'dry areas'. Get enough of those 'free thinkers' in there, and they may want to modify the 21st to limit some forms of alcohol sales. There's already talks in Texas where a bunch of Texas Senators and Reps want to implement a form of 'sin tax' on alcohol. We're heading for an $18 billion shortfall next year, and they need to boost tax revenues somehow. So add a "Texas Alcohol Stamp" to the label of every bottle and beer can. Want to drink in Texas? It'll cost you...
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Oh and you are vehemently against this "sin" tax, but dont mind the 200% tax placed on cigarettes at the federal level..............
You are against a 30 dollar membership to drink (most places don't even charge where I have gone in Texas), but had no complaints about a proposed "health tax" on sugar products....
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/400#post_3316529
Lets jump back to the wars in asia and europe you were never taught about. WW2, WW1, Korean. three major wars that after two of them we maintained a significant military presence that has prevent future wars. the other we did not...and it led to another war. So wait and see
Now on to your latest attempt at an intellectual point.
1. The military does not fall under constitutional law completely. If this were the case, the military personnel would have to abide by the laws of each state concerning drinking. This is not the case..where every citizen in the U.s. must wait till 21 due to state laws, The military personal on base have this right at 18. Thus this circumvents the 21st ammendment....because the Military does not fall under constitutional law....Even their court system is different.Thus don't ask dont tell is not covered by the constitution.
2. Go read the 21st amendment. Please do it. Because it is clear you have no clue what you are speaking of.All the 21st did was give control back to the states...so your state and county are circumventing nothing and doing what is within their rights. To circumvent the 21st at the federal level they would need to amend the constitution, meaning the would have to follow the process set forth by the constitution, meaning they are still following the constitution to do this. See, the framers knew some amendments would need changed or added as time went on, so they put in place a difficult process to meet this. Changing the constitution is not unconstitutional, as long as it is done by the constitutional process. If there was an amendment created stating we no longer could bare arms. This WOULD NOT be unconstitutional, as it was created through the amendment process.
Abortion has been ruled on by the supreme court..The court is appointed by the president and confirmed by congress...but a judge must retire, and to overturn the previous ruling we would need three justices to step down and be replaced by those with like views on abortion....This is almost as difficult as amendment change....HOWEVER if the supreme court did change and a case was presented, the judges ruled against abortion being constitutional, then the constitutional process has been served and this action is not unconstitutional. I am against abortion, but I have never stated it is unconstitutional...
So, again, which christian/religious views could be viewed unconstitutional.
You can't compare WW1, WW2, and what should've been termed the Korean Conflict to the 'war' we've been having in the Mid East. The Iraq and Afghan War is purely a religious conflict, one that has been going on WAY before we became a nation. If we stayed there another hundred years to "wait and see" if things would change, you'd be wasting your time and money. You can't convert someone to a different religious philosophy using a Democratic approach. If we pulled out of Europe today, no one would care. If we pulled out of South Korea, North Korea wouldn't immediately invade South Korea tomorrow. That nut running that country today is ready to spew a nuke at Alaska. If he really wanted to take back South Korea, he'd go ahead and do it. By the time the US retaliated, Sarah Palin and her house in Wasilla would be in the middle of a nuclear ash cloud.
Look, you asked what Amendments Christians views could be viewed unconstituional, and I showed you. You write some justification about exceptions to those Amendments to try and prove some point. Could Christians actually change these Amendments because they disagreed with them? Very doubtful. But the fact remains their VIEWS would be considered unconstituional in the context of the current amendment. That's the question you asked.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/400#post_3316532
Oh and you are vehemently against this "sin" tax, but dont mind the 200% tax placed on cigarettes at the federal level..............
You are against a 30 dollar membership to drink (most places don't even charge where I have gone in Texas), but had no complaints about a proposed "health tax" on sugar products....
Who said I agreed with the tax they put on cigarettes? Trust me, I listen to chain smokers I know on a daily basis complain about their $5.00 pack of cigarettes. I don't like the %15 - 20% (or whatever it is) gas on gasoline at the Federal level. What's your point?
That drinking membership is nothing more than a revenue generator. The only reason they get away with it in the Dallas area is because of the mass majority of Southern Baptist bible thumpers that live there. If they tried that in Austin, San Antonio, or Houston, they'd get laughed out of town. The idiots in Dallas also let their county charge property tax on anything that is titled in Dallas County. I lived there for a couple of years back in the 80's. After the first year passed, I get this tax bill in the mail for $500 for the property tax on my 2 vehicles and my boat. They took the NADA values of each titled piece of property, and accessed whatever property tax rate I was paying on my house. I just went back to San Antonio, registered my cars and boats there under my mother-in-laws address, and sent the tax bill back to the Dallas County Tax Accessor in shredded pieces. By the time they started asking me for back taxes, I had moved back to San Antonio. I just told them if they wanted their money, they could drive to San Antonio and try getting it. Never heard from them again.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/400#post_3316499
both of you are no better than the characterization you guys are creating. You have no problem inflicting your own views on everyone. You demonize the intent and people who created this country to begin with. If this is your hanging point, you guys lack any intellectual honesty...
Cry me a river. We inflict our views on everyone? What exactly do you do when you flame anyone that disagrees with your views and call them a "Stinking Liberal", or "Looney Socialist"? You call me 'evil' because I agree with abortion. That's my OPINION. So you have no problem inflicting your own views on abortion on everyone. Just because I don't believe in God, and the people who started this country did, I'm considered a "demon"? IT'S MY RIGHT TO DISAGREE. You're one of the biggest hypocrits that posts on this board. Look in the mirror.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/400#post_3316580
Cry me a river. We inflict our views on everyone? What exactly do you do when you flame anyone that disagrees with your views and call them a "Stinking Liberal", or "Looney Socialist"? You call me 'evil' because I agree with abortion. That's my OPINION. So you have no problem inflicting your own views on abortion on everyone. Just because I don't believe in God, and the people who started this country did, I'm considered a "demon"? IT'S MY RIGHT TO DISAGREE. You're one of the biggest hypocrits that posts on this board. Look in the mirror.
Wow do you purposely miss the point, just to be argumentative? There is no way you're that dumb.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
By calling the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, you are therefore agreeing we are a Christian nation. Just want to make this point clear. You are also agreeing that we are a nation of laws based on Christianity. Is this so. if not, then those wars are not religious wars. So which is it?
No, I asked which amendments in the constitution conflict with Christianity. Abortion is not an amendment, 21st does not conflict as it gives the right to prohibition to state and local powers, and don't ask don't tell is military law, separate from constitutional law since the military is not under constitutional jurisdiction. So of all the amendments in the constitution, which ones go against Christianity?
Rubin was just pointing out you r complaining about christians imposing their views and beliefs on you, while you do the same thing. He never stated he didn't do this.....
You may not support the cigarette tax (and I highly doubt you talk with lots of smokers about price since they are now over 7 dollars in most places) but YOU DID SUPPORT THE "HEALTH/SUGAR TAX". what is the difference?
So, you didn't apy your owed taxes ios what you are saying?. You violated the law and with held moneys due the state? You are a tax fraud? You did not pay in your share to help maintain roads? Yet you want the tax rate to go up on other people....Ironic.
Darth (I doubt you didnt pay the taxes and got away with it) Tang
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/400#post_3316580
Cry me a river. We inflict our views on everyone? What exactly do you do when you flame anyone that disagrees with your views and call them a "Stinking Liberal", or "Looney Socialist"? You call me 'evil' because I agree with abortion. That's my OPINION. So you have no problem inflicting your own views on abortion on everyone. Just because I don't believe in God, and the people who started this country did, I'm considered a "demon"? IT'S MY RIGHT TO DISAGREE. You're one of the biggest hypocrits that posts on this board. Look in the mirror.
Stinking Liberal

Reef(stirring the pot and throwing it in the fan)Raff
 
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