Texas man cleared of shooting neighbor's robber

sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2671311
Last time I post this. This is enough for me. He wasn't on the phone with 911 when he was outside. It's not illegal to not take the advice of a 911 operator as far as I remember. Nor is it illegal to confront someone. But trespassing is.
Who know's what Horn meant by "shoot" anyway? He really could only have meant 'confront' or something...

Corbett said one man ran toward Horn, but had angled away from him toward the street when he was shot in the back just before reaching the curb.
"The detective confirmed that this suspect was actually closer to Horn after he initiated his run than at the time when first confronted," said Corbett. "Horn said he felt in jeopardy."
Ortiz and Torres died a short distance from Horn's house, both shot in the back.
Who knows what he ment by shoot? Obviously he meant shoot! It is really pointless to argue this. I am not going to see your way and you are not going to see mine. I have far too much respect for you and the other hobbyists on here to make this an issue. He got off. Yey for him.
 
T

tizzo

Guest
Well, I'm trying to get a handle on the "castle doctrine" mentioned.
There are 2 points. One, you have the right to protect your property blah blah blah, we all know it wasn't "his" property, but another part of the law's purpose is it removes the "duty to retreat" if you are attacked in any place you have a right to be. You no longer have to turn your back on a criminal and try to run when attacked. Instead, you may stand your ground and fight back.
Cut and pasted that.
Excellent point made here...
"If you break into my house with intent to commit a crime, I shouldn't have to calculate, 'Does he have a knife, does he have a gun, is the gun loaded,' " Mr. Wentworth said. "I ought to be able to protect my property and my family without worrying about those other things."
In this article...
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...1.3e193c8.html
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2671322
Who knows what he ment by shoot? Obviously he meant shoot! It is really pointless to argue this. I am not going to see your way and you are not going to see mine. I have far too much respect for you and the other hobbyists on here to make this an issue. He got off. Yey for him.

"The detective confirmed that this suspect was actually closer to Horn after he initiated his run than at the time when first confronted," said Corbett. "Horn said he felt in jeopardy."
The guy ran towards horn.
 
reefreak29

reefreak29

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2671256
All these "what if" arguments don't hold water, if anything, this will act as a deterrent. Horn himself has said, if he had to do it again, he wouldn't do it. He now keeps his shotgun in a safe. He isn't going to do what was right, protect himself and his neighbors because of the hell he caught for it. And that is messed up.
And remember they approached him, they were on his lawn.
he wouldnt do it again because he knew it was wrong
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Here are the facts as we know them:
*The criminals were in our country, by choice, illegally.
*They were observed, by Horn, comitting another crime
*Horn warned them before firing
*They approached an obviously armed man
*Texas law makes it very clear you can use deadly force to protect yourself
Now.. let's play out what happened. An old man looks out the window and sees a couple of criminals robbing his neighbor's house. Would that scare any of you? Would you sleep fine that night had the criminals run away with their bags of loot? I wouldn't. The old man was scared from the beginning of the encounter.
Next, he calls the cops. They aren't getting there soon enough. He has no idea where they are. He is outnumbered. He tells the criminals to stop; They advance..
They both are shot and killed in the back, on or near his property line.
Now, who in their right mind approaches a man pointing a loaded shotgun at you???? For all we know they rushed him, only to turn when he raised the shotgun. An old man wielding a shotgun isn't all that agile. IF the criminals run in opposite directions one of them will be on him from the back if he sights in the other one.
This wasn't murder. Poor judgement perhaps, but not murder.
What would the criminals have done had the home owners been home when they broke in?
 
reefreak29

reefreak29

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2672127
Here are the facts as we know them:
*The criminals were in our country, by choice, illegally.
*They were observed, by Horn, comitting another crime
*Horn warned them before firing
*They approached an obviously armed man
*Texas law makes it very clear you can use deadly force to protect yourself
Now.. let's play out what happened. An old man looks out the window and sees a couple of criminals robbing his neighbor's house. Would that scare any of you? Would you sleep fine that night had the criminals run away with their bags of loot? I wouldn't. The old man was scared from the beginning of the encounter.
Next, he calls the cops. They aren't getting there soon enough. He has no idea where they are. He is outnumbered. He tells the criminals to stop; They advance..
They both are shot and killed in the back, on or near his property line.
Now, who in their right mind approaches a man pointing a loaded shotgun at you???? For all we know they rushed him, only to turn when he raised the shotgun. An old man wielding a shotgun isn't all that agile. IF the criminals run in opposite directions one of them will be on him from the back if he sights in the other one.
This wasn't murder. Poor judgement perhaps, but not murder.
What would the criminals have done had the home owners been home when they broke in?

theres that what if again. your right it isnt murder itsmanslaughter and very very poor judgment.
your forgetting some usefull fact one: the dispatcher repeatedly told him to stay put, the criminals would most likely have to run in his direction to get away,one guy was shot not once in the back but twice,the cop ducked for his life so he should no longer be a credible witness.
i really want to know if people would feel the same way if these were a couple of suburban teens
 
cowfishrule

cowfishrule

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefreak29
http:///forum/post/2672176
theres that what if again. your right it isnt murder itsmanslaughter and very very poor judgment.
your forgetting some usefull fact one: the dispatcher repeatedly told him to stay put, the criminals would most likely have to run in his direction to get away,one guy was shot not once in the back but twice,the cop ducked for his life so he should no longer be a credible witness.
i really want to know if people would feel the same way if these were a couple of suburban teens
i would. i have no patience or tolerance for criminals, white/black/yellow/red, whatever color they are.
dont do a crime if you cant do the time.
simple f'n logic.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefreak29
http:///forum/post/2672176
theres that what if again. your right it isnt murder itsmanslaughter and very very poor judgment.
your forgetting some usefull fact one: the dispatcher repeatedly told him to stay put, the criminals would most likely have to run in his direction to get away,one guy was shot not once in the back but twice,the cop ducked for his life so he should no longer be a credible witness.
i really want to know if people would feel the same way if these were a couple of suburban teens
Yes, I would feel the same.
You just lost the debate. The charge he was let go of was murder. Manslaughter is a different charge and thus the grand jury was correct...even you agree. Therefore you agree the correct action was taken since you believe it was manslaughter...even you on the grand jury would have acquited him of murder.
Keep in mind when discussing this, the charge is murder......had he been charged with manslaughter the grand jury may have found differently.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefreak29
http:///forum/post/2672176
i really want to know if people would feel the same way if these were a couple of suburban teens
oooo now you slip into race...
Listened to his interview today on the radio. Poor old guy, that guy has gone through hell.
Actually when I first heard the story, they didn't mention race at all. And my initial reaction was idiots got themselves killed while robbing someone. Didn't realize they were Colombians for a couple of days.
 
reefreak29

reefreak29

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2672226
Yes, I would feel the same.
You just lost the debate. The charge he was let go of was murder. Manslaughter is a different charge and thus the grand jury was correct...even you agree. Therefore you agree the correct action was taken since you believe it was manslaughter...even you on the grand jury would have acquited him of murder.
Keep in mind when discussing this, the charge is murder......had he been charged with manslaughter the grand jury may have found differently.
what debate did I lose i never said he was a murderer . it is my opinion that he made a dumb move didnt say he should go to jail for murder, thats my whole damn point the guys an idiot for doing what he did
 
V

vinnyraptor

Guest
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2672127
Here are the facts as we know them:
the 911 responder told him 19 times not to leave his home, he was quoted as saying "im going to kill them" during the phone call.
IMO
he wanted to shoot those criminals and "play cop". he should have went to jail. they ran, he shot them in the back for christs sakes. he came out. confronted them. they approached then saw his gun and ran. he's a vigilante, nothing more...
*The criminals were in our country, by choice, illegally.
*They were observed, by Horn, comitting another crime
*Horn warned them before firing
*They approached an obviously armed man
*Texas law makes it very clear you can use deadly force to protect yourself
Now.. let's play out what happened. An old man looks out the window and sees a couple of criminals robbing his neighbor's house. Would that scare any of you? Would you sleep fine that night had the criminals run away with their bags of loot? I wouldn't. The old man was scared from the beginning of the encounter.
Next, he calls the cops. They aren't getting there soon enough. He has no idea where they are. He is outnumbered. He tells the criminals to stop; They advance..
They both are shot and killed in the back, on or near his property line.
Now, who in their right mind approaches a man pointing a loaded shotgun at you???? For all we know they rushed him, only to turn when he raised the shotgun. An old man wielding a shotgun isn't all that agile. IF the criminals run in opposite directions one of them will be on him from the back if he sights in the other one.
This wasn't murder. Poor judgement perhaps, but not murder.
What would the criminals have done had the home owners been home when they broke in?
111
 
oscardeuce

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by xtreeme
http:///forum/post/2669627
If he wants to be a hero he should get rock salt or bean gun. Better get a security camera. He has to live with what he did. I just hope he must face their relatives and see ALL the people effected.


Righto, blame the victim, and not the perps. 2 on one is fair.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefreak29
http:///forum/post/2672326
what debate did I lose i never said he was a murderer . it is my opinion that he made a dumb move didnt say he should go to jail for murder, thats my whole damn point the guys an idiot for doing what he did
Thats your opinion and you are welcome to it. I think he did everything right with the possible exception of pulling the trigger. Supposedly there was a question as to whether or not they were actually "shot in the back".
If I saw someone breakiung into my neighbors house you bet your *** I will confront them if the police aren't there when they attempt to leave. If they dropped the loot and ran away from me I wouldn't cap them but if they come at me they aren't going to have the chance to turn and run away.
According to Horn in an interview right after it happened the first robber ran at him and turned away at the last second so he hit him in the side. The autopsy backs that up as does the plain clothes officer's account. The other one was shot in the back immedeatly after that. First shot was rightous. Second could be chalked up to state of mind. Dunno what the grand jury was thinking on that.
I think the moron black panther guy that was leading all the protests probably intemidated the DA into charging Horn with murder. He might not have gotten off manslaughter, at least on the one charge anyway.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefreak29
http:///forum/post/2672326
what debate did I lose i never said he was a murderer . it is my opinion that he made a dumb move didnt say he should go to jail for murder, thats my whole damn point the guys an idiot for doing what he did
Every post you made left the impression that you felt he should not have cleared of the charges...that has been the debate here.
 
reefreak29

reefreak29

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2672450
Every post you made left the impression that you felt he should not have cleared of the charges...that has been the debate here.
my first post was that i was torn on the topic , I dont think that he should have gone to jail but he never should have gone over there. what if these guys had guns and the old man was killed? anything could have happened and i would bet he is going to regret that decision the rest of his life. now if he went to the neighbors house and there were people home and they were being hurt in anyway them by all means blow there heads off just tell the kiddies to close there eyes.
 
tangman99

tangman99

Active Member
Ok. It has been said over and over again that the dispatcher told him to stay inside. This makes no difference at all. Just from a point of liability, that is what a dispatcher is going to say. Stay inside, the police are on the way. That is the correct response for a dispatcher.
Here is my take from someone that has both drawn a gun on someone and looked down the barrel of one myself. If I'm the cop on the way to respond and dispatch puts me on the phone with the man to find out the situation, just from what my job would require me to do and concern for his safety, I would also tell him to stay in the house. If I showed up and found the situation that happened, I couldn't say it would break my heart. But as the dispatcher made very clear, I would have to state that I instructed him to stay inside to cover my own behind.
Did he have to shoot them? No one knows but him. But again from expererience, if you draw down on someone and they continue in your direction something is not right. Either they are juiced up or insane and either one is a life threatening situation. It's always better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. As journeyman said, he did what was within his right, the system tried to ---- him and now he's scared to exercise his rights.
 
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