darthtang aw
Active Member
The other thing many are not looking at is the charge. I believe he was charged with Murder. The grand Jury did not see it as Murder. Had the prosecutor gone with a manslaughter charge things may have been different.
Texas man cleared of shooting neighbor's robber
- Thread starter hydrodamoper
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darthtang aw
Active Member
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid
http:///forum/post/2670623
This is going to get far to philosophical, and this is probably more about society than this actual event. But why is it, that when given a choice, most people want to be the aggressor, even if they don't really need to be.
I volunteered at a shelter for six years, with people with all kinds of rap sheets. Because of that, it kinda makes me a little sick each time I hear someone say "They choose to break in to someones house, therefore they have to be ready to face the consequences".
People, especially those from "Christian" backgrounds (like myself), are SO quick to judge. There is only one person who came to judge the quick and the dead, and that's God. This is in no way a religious debate, but what in the world gives some old man the right to shoot someone IN THE BACK running from a crime scene?
And believe me, these people who just randomly "break into homes", aren't naturally evil people. I personally got to see the places a lot of these people came from. Most, from a single parent home, sexually or physically abused, on drugs, trying to get by the ONLY way they ever saw.
It's real easy for all of us in our white, upper middle class lives to think that "stealing" is such a terrible act. But remember, you weren't watching your Mom getting beaten up, while your alcoholic dad was forcing her to turn tricks for cash. For a lot of these people. That's what they saw. For year after year after year.
All of them? Absolutely not. But like I said, who is this guy to be the person to judge them?
If that was considered "legal", then the old coot better head to Houston and sit outside any big business, where a middle age white man rips his clients off by stealing from THEM. Only difference is, he does it through laundering, extortion, insider trading, etc. Lucky for him, he was smart enough and lucky enough to go to college.
At least the poor Mexican immigrant never had a chance.
So when you see Mr. White business man running towards his Mercedes, I bet you won't find any old men gunning him down...
Boohoo.....so make something of your life rather than following similar footsteps.
My dad cheated on my mom, made her sad, does that give me a pass to cheat on every woman I date the rest of my life?
And I hate Christians that don't understand scripture. The verse says clear, "judge not lest ye be judged".
Translation- if you judge be prepared for judgement in return.
It does not translate into --You can't judge.
http:///forum/post/2670623
This is going to get far to philosophical, and this is probably more about society than this actual event. But why is it, that when given a choice, most people want to be the aggressor, even if they don't really need to be.
I volunteered at a shelter for six years, with people with all kinds of rap sheets. Because of that, it kinda makes me a little sick each time I hear someone say "They choose to break in to someones house, therefore they have to be ready to face the consequences".
People, especially those from "Christian" backgrounds (like myself), are SO quick to judge. There is only one person who came to judge the quick and the dead, and that's God. This is in no way a religious debate, but what in the world gives some old man the right to shoot someone IN THE BACK running from a crime scene?
And believe me, these people who just randomly "break into homes", aren't naturally evil people. I personally got to see the places a lot of these people came from. Most, from a single parent home, sexually or physically abused, on drugs, trying to get by the ONLY way they ever saw.
It's real easy for all of us in our white, upper middle class lives to think that "stealing" is such a terrible act. But remember, you weren't watching your Mom getting beaten up, while your alcoholic dad was forcing her to turn tricks for cash. For a lot of these people. That's what they saw. For year after year after year.
All of them? Absolutely not. But like I said, who is this guy to be the person to judge them?
If that was considered "legal", then the old coot better head to Houston and sit outside any big business, where a middle age white man rips his clients off by stealing from THEM. Only difference is, he does it through laundering, extortion, insider trading, etc. Lucky for him, he was smart enough and lucky enough to go to college.
At least the poor Mexican immigrant never had a chance.
So when you see Mr. White business man running towards his Mercedes, I bet you won't find any old men gunning him down...
Boohoo.....so make something of your life rather than following similar footsteps.
My dad cheated on my mom, made her sad, does that give me a pass to cheat on every woman I date the rest of my life?
And I hate Christians that don't understand scripture. The verse says clear, "judge not lest ye be judged".
Translation- if you judge be prepared for judgement in return.
It does not translate into --You can't judge.
jennythebugg
Active Member
im really glad my neighbors dont feel the same way as some of you , i would hate to think that they would just sit by and watch while someone invaded my home anyone with any kind of sense knows it only takes seconds to murder, r.a.p.e and rob...what is your local police response time?
darthtang aw
Active Member
And for those of you trying to compare a civilian shooting with police officer shooting, both are looked at and addressed under separate laws.
Taken from http://law.jrank.org/pages/5981/Deadly-Force.html
"When deadly force is used by a private citizen, the reasonableness rule does not apply. The citizen must be able to prove that a felony occurred or was being attempted, and that the felony threatened death or bodily harm. Mere suspicion of a felony is considered an insufficient ground for a private citizen to use deadly force."
A felony was proven to have occurred as Burglary is a felony in Texas when done at a residence. His lawyer. could have argued the bodily harm part as that the criminals obviously broke into his neighbors house in broad daylight he was afraid they would come back and break into his home (being elderly he is more suseptible to this kind of crime) and harm him in the process.
He was with in the law using this defense and reasoning. The law is the law.
Taken from http://law.jrank.org/pages/5981/Deadly-Force.html
"When deadly force is used by a private citizen, the reasonableness rule does not apply. The citizen must be able to prove that a felony occurred or was being attempted, and that the felony threatened death or bodily harm. Mere suspicion of a felony is considered an insufficient ground for a private citizen to use deadly force."
A felony was proven to have occurred as Burglary is a felony in Texas when done at a residence. His lawyer. could have argued the bodily harm part as that the criminals obviously broke into his neighbors house in broad daylight he was afraid they would come back and break into his home (being elderly he is more suseptible to this kind of crime) and harm him in the process.
He was with in the law using this defense and reasoning. The law is the law.
bronco300
Active Member
I volunteered at a shelter for six years, with people with all kinds of rap sheets. Because of that, it kinda makes me a little sick each time I hear someone say "They choose to break in to someones house, therefore they have to be ready to face the consequences".
then what do you call it? they were forced to break in the window and lift items out of the house? they don't know any better?
And believe me, these people who just randomly "break into homes", aren't naturally evil people. I personally got to see the places a lot of these people came from. Most, from a single parent home, sexually or physically abused, on drugs, trying to get by the ONLY way they ever saw.
no one is naturally evil, that doesnt mean it turns out that way...but they choose it, whether or not their parents were like that or not...they may be more apt to choose a negative lifestyle, but that isn't to say they have to by any means...that is up to them.
then what do you call it? they were forced to break in the window and lift items out of the house? they don't know any better?
And believe me, these people who just randomly "break into homes", aren't naturally evil people. I personally got to see the places a lot of these people came from. Most, from a single parent home, sexually or physically abused, on drugs, trying to get by the ONLY way they ever saw.
no one is naturally evil, that doesnt mean it turns out that way...but they choose it, whether or not their parents were like that or not...they may be more apt to choose a negative lifestyle, but that isn't to say they have to by any means...that is up to them.
reefreak29
Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2670676
lets NOT forget these guys were part of an organized crime ring and were suspected in a string of robberies. It is entirely likely that Mr. Horns house was next.
not to long ago in my area they caught 6 15 year old boys stealing stuff out of cars over a 2 month period(organized crime). they come from familys with half million dollar homes and there white, I wish someone would have killed each one of those
[hr]
for what they did
http:///forum/post/2670676
lets NOT forget these guys were part of an organized crime ring and were suspected in a string of robberies. It is entirely likely that Mr. Horns house was next.
not to long ago in my area they caught 6 15 year old boys stealing stuff out of cars over a 2 month period(organized crime). they come from familys with half million dollar homes and there white, I wish someone would have killed each one of those
[hr]
for what they did
ibew41
Active Member
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid
http:///forum/post/2670623
This is going to get far to philosophical, and this is probably more about society than this actual event. But why is it, that when given a choice, most people want to be the aggressor, even if they don't really need to be.
I volunteered at a shelter for six years, with people with all kinds of rap sheets. Because of that, it kinda makes me a little sick each time I hear someone say "They choose to break in to someones house, therefore they have to be ready to face the consequences".
People, especially those from "Christian" backgrounds (like myself), are SO quick to judge. There is only one person who came to judge the quick and the dead, and that's God. This is in no way a religious debate, but what in the world gives some old man the right to shoot someone IN THE BACK running from a crime scene?
And believe me, these people who just randomly "break into homes", aren't naturally evil people. I personally got to see the places a lot of these people came from. Most, from a single parent home, sexually or physically abused, on drugs, trying to get by the ONLY way they ever saw.
It's real easy for all of us in our white, upper middle class lives to think that "stealing" is such a terrible act. But remember, you weren't watching your Mom getting beaten up, while your alcoholic dad was forcing her to turn tricks for cash. For a lot of these people. That's what they saw. For year after year after year.
All of them? Absolutely not. But like I said, who is this guy to be the person to judge them?
If that was considered "legal", then the old coot better head to Houston and sit outside any big business, where a middle age white man rips his clients off by stealing from THEM. Only difference is, he does it through laundering, extortion, insider trading, etc. Lucky for him, he was smart enough and lucky enough to go to college.
At least the poor Mexican immigrant never had a chance.
So when you see Mr. White business man running towards his Mercedes, I bet you won't find any old men gunning him down...
why are you so against being white. Race has no factor in this he killed two people who where committing a crime if they where rich white kids would you be happy?
http:///forum/post/2670623
This is going to get far to philosophical, and this is probably more about society than this actual event. But why is it, that when given a choice, most people want to be the aggressor, even if they don't really need to be.
I volunteered at a shelter for six years, with people with all kinds of rap sheets. Because of that, it kinda makes me a little sick each time I hear someone say "They choose to break in to someones house, therefore they have to be ready to face the consequences".
People, especially those from "Christian" backgrounds (like myself), are SO quick to judge. There is only one person who came to judge the quick and the dead, and that's God. This is in no way a religious debate, but what in the world gives some old man the right to shoot someone IN THE BACK running from a crime scene?
And believe me, these people who just randomly "break into homes", aren't naturally evil people. I personally got to see the places a lot of these people came from. Most, from a single parent home, sexually or physically abused, on drugs, trying to get by the ONLY way they ever saw.
It's real easy for all of us in our white, upper middle class lives to think that "stealing" is such a terrible act. But remember, you weren't watching your Mom getting beaten up, while your alcoholic dad was forcing her to turn tricks for cash. For a lot of these people. That's what they saw. For year after year after year.
All of them? Absolutely not. But like I said, who is this guy to be the person to judge them?
If that was considered "legal", then the old coot better head to Houston and sit outside any big business, where a middle age white man rips his clients off by stealing from THEM. Only difference is, he does it through laundering, extortion, insider trading, etc. Lucky for him, he was smart enough and lucky enough to go to college.
At least the poor Mexican immigrant never had a chance.
So when you see Mr. White business man running towards his Mercedes, I bet you won't find any old men gunning him down...
why are you so against being white. Race has no factor in this he killed two people who where committing a crime if they where rich white kids would you be happy?
reefforbrains
Active Member
I think I will vomit if this slips down into sorrow for the poor misjudged underprivileged never had a chance................
cowfishrule
Active Member
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid
http:///forum/post/2670623
I volunteered at a shelter for six years, with people with all kinds of rap sheets. Because of that, it kinda makes me a little sick each time I hear someone say "They choose to break in to someones house, therefore they have to be ready to face the consequences".
Boils down to personal responsibility.
You swim in the ocean, there is a chance you'll get eaten by a shark. You skydive, there is a chance your shoot WONT open.
You commit a crime, there is a chance you will be caught and go to jail. By doing these acts, you know there is a chance for bad ---- to happen, and you accept this by continuing to do so.
I dont want to go to jail, so I wont rob a bank or steal. I dont want to fall out of a tree and be injured, so I wont climb that tree.
Simple logic.
If you agree with these statements, then you cannot justify anything else.
http:///forum/post/2670623
I volunteered at a shelter for six years, with people with all kinds of rap sheets. Because of that, it kinda makes me a little sick each time I hear someone say "They choose to break in to someones house, therefore they have to be ready to face the consequences".
Boils down to personal responsibility.
You swim in the ocean, there is a chance you'll get eaten by a shark. You skydive, there is a chance your shoot WONT open.
You commit a crime, there is a chance you will be caught and go to jail. By doing these acts, you know there is a chance for bad ---- to happen, and you accept this by continuing to do so.
I dont want to go to jail, so I wont rob a bank or steal. I dont want to fall out of a tree and be injured, so I wont climb that tree.
Simple logic.
If you agree with these statements, then you cannot justify anything else.
coral keeper
Active Member
Originally Posted by ReefForBrains
http:///forum/post/2670714
I think I will vomit if this slips down into sorrow for the poor misjudged underprivileged never had a chance................
Ditto.
http:///forum/post/2670714
I think I will vomit if this slips down into sorrow for the poor misjudged underprivileged never had a chance................
Ditto.
theclemsonkid
Member
You're all missing the point.
Bottom line, is that this particular gentleman had no place in shooting a guy in the back, running from a crime scene unless he was personally threatened.
Far as I can tell, he was never threatened.
Maybe I'm wrong.
And don't start with the "what if they were armed?" crap. If that's the case, then you could assume practically any crime being committed "could" involve a weapon, in which case it sounds like you would all be cool with shooting no matter what.
That's my big thing.
What's the point in the law, if people take it into their own hands?
Bottom line, is that this particular gentleman had no place in shooting a guy in the back, running from a crime scene unless he was personally threatened.
Far as I can tell, he was never threatened.
Maybe I'm wrong.
And don't start with the "what if they were armed?" crap. If that's the case, then you could assume practically any crime being committed "could" involve a weapon, in which case it sounds like you would all be cool with shooting no matter what.
That's my big thing.
What's the point in the law, if people take it into their own hands?
jmick
Active Member
I think there is one thing that everyone will agree on. That is if you decide to rob a house in Texas you had better be willing to give your life because in Texas it could be punished with the death sentence.
On a side note, race does come into play here. If these two had been white men or young white men and the same thing had happened the old man would be in prison and I bet most of the people here would have a different attitude about it all.
On a side note, race does come into play here. If these two had been white men or young white men and the same thing had happened the old man would be in prison and I bet most of the people here would have a different attitude about it all.
theclemsonkid
Member
That's the sad part about it all. People always say race has nothing to do with it. We all know that's hogwash.
Let's say it WAS two white teenagers breaking and entering. I'm willing to bet that for one, Gramps wouldn't have shot them in the back. And two, that if he did, he would be sitting in some cell right now having to answer to a very upset public.
Let's say it WAS two white teenagers breaking and entering. I'm willing to bet that for one, Gramps wouldn't have shot them in the back. And two, that if he did, he would be sitting in some cell right now having to answer to a very upset public.
reefforbrains
Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2670816
On a side note, race does come into play here. If these two had been white men or young white men and the same thing had happened the old man would be in prison and I bet most of the people here would have a different attitude about it all.
No not in prison, no difference. Public outcry for vengence on the shooter is still present in this case already. White victims would not change the facts.
http:///forum/post/2670816
On a side note, race does come into play here. If these two had been white men or young white men and the same thing had happened the old man would be in prison and I bet most of the people here would have a different attitude about it all.
No not in prison, no difference. Public outcry for vengence on the shooter is still present in this case already. White victims would not change the facts.
reefforbrains
Active Member
Ever have a gun pointed at you by an old man on a porch?
You do what they say or you get shot.
I think the actual situation is clouding the factors, not the other way around.
You DON'T ignore the guy with the gun pointed at you. Criminals are stupid, but this is learned early in a criminals path.
I still think he would have shot them. The public might have more fire and brimstone in thier approach but the fact that there were no charges filed against the shooter would still stand.
You do what they say or you get shot.
I think the actual situation is clouding the factors, not the other way around.
You DON'T ignore the guy with the gun pointed at you. Criminals are stupid, but this is learned early in a criminals path.
I still think he would have shot them. The public might have more fire and brimstone in thier approach but the fact that there were no charges filed against the shooter would still stand.
jmick
Active Member
Originally Posted by ReefForBrains
http:///forum/post/2670836
No not in prison, no difference. Public outcry for vengence on the shooter is still present in this case already. White victims would not change the facts.
The witnesses and facts could be dramatically different if they had been white instead of illegals. Like I said in my first post, I had no opinion here but once I heard the 911 call it seemed to me as if this man really wanted to kill these two men. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that the detectives held back the real facts...things like that never happen right?
http:///forum/post/2670836
No not in prison, no difference. Public outcry for vengence on the shooter is still present in this case already. White victims would not change the facts.
The witnesses and facts could be dramatically different if they had been white instead of illegals. Like I said in my first post, I had no opinion here but once I heard the 911 call it seemed to me as if this man really wanted to kill these two men. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that the detectives held back the real facts...things like that never happen right?
reefforbrains
Active Member
Pure speculation when talking about "if"
Agreed it is not outside realm of possibilities.
Agreed it is not outside realm of possibilities.
cowfishrule
Active Member
i wish i had a neighbor like this guy.
cowfishrule
Active Member
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid
http:///forum/post/2670813
Bottom line, is that this particular gentleman had no place in shooting a guy in the back, running from a crime scene unless he was personally threatened.
criminals didnt have to run.
http:///forum/post/2670813
Bottom line, is that this particular gentleman had no place in shooting a guy in the back, running from a crime scene unless he was personally threatened.
criminals didnt have to run.