The Golden Compass

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Jmick
OMG, you have too be kidding! You're worried your kids will want to become witches and warlocks after seeing Harry Potter? Magic is make believe, it's something fun and exciting for kids to imagine, yes imagine and there is nothing better for young ones to develop then a great imagination! There are so many bad things in this world they will become exposed to as they get older so why not let them enjoy being young and carefree? A little Harry Potter isn't going to scare them for life and if anything it might help them develop a love for reading which is wonderful thing.
I think young ones do need to be sheltered from things like ---, violence, hate, intolerence, radical idea, drugs but not the land of make believe...I don't think you are in any danger of them running off to Hogwarts to become young wizzards.
On a side note, for the longest time I thought Harry Potter was a little girl...untill my wife rented the movie.
I don't believe magic is make believe. And I am not referring to David Copperfield and optical illusions.
Salem witch trials were a real percieved threat, although many of those people may have been innocent... Look it up... it is a practice...real life practice...these things make people think that this stuff is just fun and games, which it is not. Wiccans are the real life Harry Potters.
Check out those websites I posted, and you'll get a better idea of the themes of the movie. Oh, and didn't the author of Harry Potter seek advise from wiccans?

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
I don't believe magic is make believe. And I am not referring to David Copperfield and optical illusions.
Salem witch trials were a real percieved threat, although many of those people may have been innocent... Look it up... it is a practice...real life practice...these things make people think that this stuff is just fun and games, which it is not. Wiccans are the real life Harry Potters.
Check out those websites I posted, and you'll get a better idea of the themes of the movie. Oh, and didn't the author of Harry Potter seek advise from wiccans?
Sigh, do you believe wiccans perform magic and worship the devil? Come on man, it's just silly stuff that if I am not mistaken if in part based off the Druids of old times. Again, I am not 100% sure about this but I believe that is where a lot of wiccans ideas come from and what makes it better is that there are 0 records of what druids did during their ceremonies...soo. We know what they celebrated but not how they did it.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Jmick
Sigh, do you believe wiccans perform magic and worship the devil? Come on man, it's just silly stuff that if I am not mistaken if in part based off the Druids of old times. Again, I am not 100% sure about this but I believe that is where a lot of wiccans ideas come from and what makes it better is that there are 0 records of what druids did during their ceremonies...soo. We know what they celebrated but not how they did it.
it really doesn't matter what I believe, or that you are naive. The fact is that this movie and the books "Dark Materials" are at least atheist in nature and intent, after reading the summary of the third book it may be more to it than that. It seems to me that he has beliefs that are more than just anti-church. The daemons in the books represent souls and he emphasisis that kids and adults should endulge in the "desires of the flesh". There are so many negative messages in this book... please read the 2nd website about the summary of the 3rd book. He talks about God only being one of the 1st angels and did not create the universe, and that he is old and is burdened. He talks about heaven and hell being the same place and is void of life and is dark and joyless, and says that Satan is not bad and wants to lead people out of there... Read it its deep... I think you'll have another view of the story afterwards.

 

[scotts]

But after the Harry Potter movies, how many kids went out and read the books? I also choose not to have my kids see that movie because of the witchcraft, which is real

Salem witch trials were a real percieved threat, although many of those people may have been innocent
WOW!!

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Scotts
WOW!!
does that seem harsh to you, or that I am overly cautious?

 

[teresaq]

Very, you can not shelter your child from everything. We as parents must guild our children into making the right decisions. If you shelter them to much, you will have them doing things behind your back. its better to be open and share the experiance so you can answer any questions they may have. There are things in the real world they will have to deal with, and living a sheltered life will not prepare them for thier adult hood.
TeresaQ

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by TeresaQ
Very, you can not shelter your child from everything. We as parents must guild our children into making the right decisions. If you shelter them to much, you will have them doing things behind your back. its better to be open and share the experiance so you can answer any questions they may have. There are things in the real world they will have to deal with, and living a sheltered life will not prepare them for thier adult hood.
TeresaQ
trust me they are not sheltered. I figured people may make this assumption which is why I asked the question. I myself was not sheltered, but I have found that there are many things that I wish I was not exposed to because many things are destructive, and the goal is not to make your children go through the same pit falls in life that you or I experienced. To many Harry Potter and this new movie may just seem like fun and fantasy, but it truly in not. The intentions of Rowels (I think thats her name) may not be bad, but I honestly believe that those of Putnam, the author of The Dark Materials are bad. The names that he uses are Biblical. Metatron, cherbrums, daemons(demons). Metatron is the name of an angel that is supposed to be the highest ranking angel next to God, and is Enoch when he was on earth. The Book of Enoch is a uncanonized book of the Bible. So his symbolism and names are not a clever as you may think.

 

[dragonzim]

Anything that can make people stop and think about all this canned religion is a good thing in my book. So what if it makes people question Christianity or any other organized religion. You are obviously very insecure about your beliefs if you feel that a book or a movie will have SUCH a huge influence on people. It is a work of FICTION! Nothing more, nothing less...
Oh, and Rylan - most of the people killed in the Salem witch trials WERE innocent. They were midwives, herbalists, healers and basically anyone else that some uptight religious idiot had a gripe with.

 

[dragonzim]

Originally Posted by Jmick
Sigh, do you believe wiccans perform magic and worship the devil? Come on man, it's just silly stuff that if I am not mistaken if in part based off the Druids of old times. Again, I am not 100% sure about this but I believe that is where a lot of wiccans ideas come from and what makes it better is that there are 0 records of what druids did during their ceremonies...soo. We know what they celebrated but not how they did it.
Wiccans have absolultey NOTHING to do with devil worship. The religion has it roots in ancient IrishGaelic mysticism, which has been around for many thousands of years longer than Christianity. Where do you think about 90% of the christian holidays come from? They are mostly right at the same time as an ancient pagan holiday and the Christians decided to make their holidays at the same time to try and convince people they were similar. Just look at some of the symbolism... Christmas tree - VERY pagan. Burning incense at mass - also very pagan...

 

[grumpygils]

Originally Posted by Jmick
Have you even seen the movie to know what message it sends?

It has an atheist theme and I believe some one mentioned that God looses in the end or something. I have not seen the movie and probably never will. I have never even seen or read a word of Harry Potter, nor have my kids. Gotta love DVR!
Mc

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by DragonZim
Wiccans have absolultey NOTHING to do with devil worship. The religion has it roots in ancient IrishGaelic mysticism, which has been around for many thousands of years longer than Christianity. Where do you think about 90% of the christian holidays come from? They are mostly right at the same time as an ancient pagan holiday and the Christians decided to make their holidays at the same time to try and convince people they were similar. Just look at some of the symbolism... Christmas tree - VERY pagan. Burning incense at mass - also very pagan...

In collge I took a handful of Celtic myth classes and you are right on about how christain holidays seem to coincide with the same dates as pagan festivals/holidays...great tool to convert the masses.

 

[ruaround]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
I disagree. It is true that the movie has been watered down and that they have changed some names to hide the symbolism. But after the Harry Potter movies, how many kids went out and read the books? I also choose not to have my kids see that movie because of the witchcraft, which is real and a religion/way of life that people still practice. So maybe kids won't pick it up in the movies... but the movie will lead to the book, which is much more clear to the authors views.
do you know what the Wiccan religion is about??? Harry Potter is far from the Wiccan religion...
have you seen Star Wars or The Matrix??? do you like them???

 

[ruaround]

Originally Posted by DragonZim
Wiccans have absolultey NOTHING to do with devil worship. The religion has it roots in ancient IrishGaelic mysticism, which has been around for many thousands of years longer than Christianity. Where do you think about 90% of the christian holidays come from? They are mostly right at the same time as an ancient pagan holiday and the Christians decided to make their holidays at the same time to try and convince people they were similar. Just look at some of the symbolism... Christmas tree - VERY pagan. Burning incense at mass - also very pagan...
didnt read down this far Dragon...

dont forget Halloween and Harvest (the autumn equinox)...

 

[petjunkie]

When I was a kid the Narnia series were some of my favorite books and I was raised going to church my whole life. I never could make myself believe in god and religon really and am an atheist. Last time I checked I didn't have an agenda either, very few people realize I have no religion I don't knock on anyones doors or put up fliers.
I really cannot believe how sheltered you parents must be to think their kids will never see an anti-god or witchcraft loving thing in their childhood. I would prefer to raise my children to be informed and make up their own minds, you all say kids are so impressionable so you don't want them getting any crazy ideas but your pushing your beliefs on them at the same time. I love how many different beliefs there are and everyone thinks they the ones that are right.

 

[wangotango]

If you are firm in your faith/beliefs, then I don't think seeing a movie is really going affect you. It doesn't sound like the film is a type of athiest propaganda which will brainwash people, nor was The Passion of the Chirst a form of Christian propaganda.
As mentioned, it's just a story, you take whatever you take out of it. In school we've had to learn about the evolutionary theory and big bang theory, and being a christian, I know what it's not what I believe in, and I just shrug it off. It really doesn't bother me that there are books like Harry Potter out there. When I was young I enjoyed reading them, but I knew that it was all make-believe.
I think everyone needs to thicken their skin, and not worry about offending people so much these days. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with not allowing your kids to see it, but sooner or later they will learn about, or be exposed to atheism/magic/drugs/homosexuality etc, they're just out there.
-Justin

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by DragonZim
Anything that can make people stop and think about all this canned religion is a good thing in my book. So what if it makes people question Christianity or any other organized religion. You are obviously very insecure about your beliefs if you feel that a book or a movie will have SUCH a huge influence on people. It is a work of FICTION! Nothing more, nothing less...
Oh, and Rylan - most of the people killed in the Salem witch trials WERE innocent. They were midwives, herbalists, healers and basically anyone else that some uptight religious idiot had a gripe with.
I said that at least some if not most were probably innocent. But no I am not insecure and the book and movie are not making me question anything. However, I think people need to be aware that this is not only attacking organized religion, but it also attacking the nature of God. Ya, its fiction but the themes are not. What I am saying is that before you take your children or allow them to go, that you are informed as a parent to what this movie/book is promoting. But movies and other forms of entertainment do influence children and even adults in their hobbies and the lives they lead. Think about it... the people that wait in the cold for 24 hours waiting for the next Harry Potter release, or to be the first one in the theatre. Trekies, etc..etc... So yes entertainment does influence behavior and lifestyles rather it be good or bad.

 

[wangotango]

Originally Posted by ruaround
have you seen Star Wars or The Matrix??? do you like them???
Exactly

. I enjoy these types of film, but it's all made up. It's fun to imagine that there's a program that we can plug into to fight evil, but there isn't. Just like there isn't an evil galactic empire that has a spacestation orbiting our planet waiting to blow it up. I first saw Star Wars when I was young. Nobody had to tell me that it was pretend. I really think that kids are intelligent enough to determine whether or not they beleive or agree with things they see.
I don't know it this happened locally, but on the news the other night some parents were outraged, and claimed that their child was overweight, and was influenced to be that way, because Santa Claus is overweight. Next we're going to have to have a Santa for every race, ethnicity, and gender. You can't please everyone.
-Justin

 

[ruaround]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
I said that at least some if not most were probably innocent. But no I am not insecure and the book and movie are not making me question anything. However, I think people need to be aware that this is not only attacking organized religion, but it also attacking the nature of God. Ya, its fiction but the themes are not. What I am saying is that before you take your children or allow them to go, that you are informed as a parent to what this movie/book is promoting. But movies and other forms of entertainment do influence children and even adults in their hobbies and the lives they lead. Think about it... the people that wait in the cold for 24 hours waiting for the next Harry Potter release, or to be the first one in the theatre. Trekies, etc..etc... So yes entertainment does influence behavior and lifestyles rather it be good or bad.
you still havent answered my question... if this were a christian author would you "suggest" that people be informed???

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by ruaround
you still havent answered my question... if this were a christian author would you "suggest" that people be informed???
I didn't know what you meant by the initial question.
But to answer your question... no I wouldn't. I do however believe that people or groups would. But let me step back... if the story was the same as it is ...or I guess a better way to put it is that I have a problem with the message. Regardless of who wrote the book the message is not a message that I agree with and I believe it to be very negative.

 

[jmick]

Rylan, would you take your kids to see The Passion of Christ?