The Golden Compass

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by DragonZim
The Matrix
Why would I have a problem with the Matrix,when its based on christianity?
No I have not seen it,(Da Vinci Code) but that movie has caused some people to create some belief structure or question aspects of religion, even though the author says that it is complete fiction and the claims are unobstainciated or are falsehoods or half truths... People actually believe in Dan Brown's work like it is gospel.
 

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by juice_1080
This sadly is the same reason why groups like the ESRB feel that they need to rate some games (Manhunt 2) Adults Only, well knowing that nothing will read AO titles. Thus ruining it for the ones who actually want it. Censorship at its finest... I am so glad we have Freedom of Speech.
Let the children find out on their own. If they want to see it they will see it, whether you want them to or not. Children don't follow parents every word. Do you not do anything your parents told you not to?
you're right...children don't listen to parents and get into all sorts of trouble because of it, or experince aspects of life they could have avoided. I think that things should be censored...ie games and movies until people/children are able to handle it in a mature way. As far as Free Speech,this has nothing to do with it because no one is saying that this movie shouldn't be in theatres,just be aware of the message. When you get a little older and have kids of your own , you will better understand that they usually have your best interests in mind.
 

ric maniac

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
But that's my point about Santa... if you have a child that said he wants to be like Santa, why wouldn't you think a child would be influenced by a movie or book?
because santa gives out free gifts, and is a fat cookied up elf...what kid doesn't?
 

ric maniac

Active Member
"I also choose not to have my kids see that movie because of the witchcraft, which is real"
"Salem witch trials were a real percieved threat, although many of those people may have been innocent"
I laughed out loud.... no offence
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
Just because a movie has a christain theme doesn't mean it carries a good message. I went and saw the Passion at the theater when it came out and it is one of the only movies I have ever walked out on (the other being Hook back in the day).
Put it this way, I think the story of Jesus dying on the cross in the bible is rather moving and powerful. However, M Gibson's big screen version is perverted, violent, antisemetic and just plain wrong.
So good to be able to disagree again with ya Jmick.
The Passion of the Christ was Bilbically spot on. You may not agree with the biblical account; That's fine. The movie, however, was an honest potrayal of scripture.
 

jmick

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
So good to be able to disagree again with ya Jmick.
The Passion of the Christ was Bilbically spot on. You may not agree with the biblical account; That's fine. The movie, however, was an honest potrayal of scripture.
I didn't think we'd continue to agree with eachother

It's been years and years and years since I have read the bible so I will take your word if you say it is indeed a fairly honest portrayal of the scripture...with a little artistic license thrown in.
 

reefreak29

Active Member
I haven’t read through the entire thread but. , No matter what movie you let your children watch it’s the parents job to be informed on what the movie will be about so you can make a decision to let or not let your children watch it. I personally didn’t let my kid watch shark tail because of the gay undertones and that’s rated g
 

jmick

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefreak29
I haven’t read through the entire thread but. , No matter what movie you let your children watch it’s the parents job to be informed on what the movie will be about so you can make a decision to let or not let your children watch it. I personally didn’t let my kid watch shark tail because of the gay undertones and that’s rated g
We own SharkTail and my little guy isn't really into it so I think we have only watched maybe half of it. I'm not sure if there are gay undertones but one of the sharks is very effeminate.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
So good to be able to disagree again with ya Jmick.
The Passion of the Christ was Bilbically spot on. You may not agree with the biblical account; That's fine. The movie, however, was an honest potrayal of scripture.
I agree, what alot of people miss is the actual violence of the bible, it has some pretty bloody stuff in it.
Mel Gibson did a pretty dang good job of portraying what was written in the bible.
I really don't understand how that can be anti-semetic. the "jews" didn't kill jesus, a bunch of powerful corrupt leaders did who happened to be jews. It would be like me hating all arabs for the 15 some hickjackers who flew the planes into the WTC. I could understand people walking out, if they don't do violence. But that is what the bible says happened.
 

chano

Member
I have an 8 year old son. He read the books and he read harry potter. So far he hasn't ridden any brooms (ok maby he tried once or twice) or launched any fireballs out of his magic wand. (the following is purely my opinion and i really dont mean to offend or down anyone) You cannot in one breath say you are not sheltering your children and in the next talk about how you are censoring what they watch. As a parent our job is not to hide these things from our children our job is to educate them to know the difference between right and wrong, fiction and nonfiction. Your children are more likely to become nonbelivers if you cram religon down their throat or completely shelter them from other points of view. When they finally do hear these views (they undoubtably will eventually) they wil give them more merit because now they know someone has been hiding these things from them and there must be a reason for it.
The salem witch trials were nothing short of maddness. Not most or some of the people were innocent, all of them were. Nobody can cast spells and curses they are not real. Yes they were precived as real but before the civil war black people were procived as unhuman and lesser beings just because someone convinces you of something doesn't make it fact.
Also the matrix was deffinately not christian themed. If any religous theme could be considered (which i dont belive)Buddhisim would be far more likely.
Agent Smith=suffering (the ultamite enemy of the buddhist) the enlightened one bringing everyone out of their "sleep" to a state of enlightenment=the real world as opposed to inside the matrix. Only in the buddha's death can he reach nirvana. (only with neo's death can the people br brought out of the matrix) Just a couple of major examples i could point out quite a few more.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Chano
I have an 8 year old son. He read the books and he read harry potter. So far he hasn't ridden any brooms (ok maby he tried once or twice) or launched any fireballs out of his magic wand. (the following is purely my opinion and i really dont mean to offend or down anyone) You cannot in one breath say you are not sheltering your children and in the next talk about how you are censoring what they watch. As a parent our job is not to hide these things from our children our job is to educate them to know the difference between right and wrong, fiction and nonfiction. Your children are more likely to become nonbelivers if you cram religon down their throat or completely shelter them from other points of view. When they finally do hear these views (they undoubtably will eventually) they wil give them more merit because now they know someone has been hiding these things from them and there must be a reason for it.
The salem witch trials were nothing short of maddness. Not most or some of the people were innocent, all of them were. Nobody can cast spells and curses they are not real. Yes they were precived as real but before the civil war black people were procived as unhuman and lesser beings just because someone convinces you of something doesn't make it fact.
Also the matrix was deffinately not christian themed. If any religous theme could be considered (which i dont belive)Buddhisim would be far more likely.
Agent Smith=suffering (the ultamite enemy of the buddhist) the enlightened one bringing everyone out of their "sleep" to a state of enlightenment=the real world as opposed to inside the matrix. Only in the buddha's death can he reach nirvana. (only with neo's death can the people br brought out of the matrix) Just a couple of major examples i could point out quite a few more.
There were elements of serveral religions in the Matrix. It was the whole point of the movie.
Harry Potter at 10 I was aready on tom clancy, michael criton and john grisham. Now I'm 24 and reading harry potter.
 

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by Chano
I have an 8 year old son. He read the books and he read harry potter. So far he hasn't ridden any brooms (ok maby he tried once or twice) or launched any fireballs out of his magic wand. (the following is purely my opinion and i really dont mean to offend or down anyone) You cannot in one breath say you are not sheltering your children and in the next talk about how you are censoring what they watch. As a parent our job is not to hide these things from our children our job is to educate them to know the difference between right and wrong, fiction and nonfiction. Your children are more likely to become nonbelivers if you cram religon down their throat or completely shelter them from other points of view. When they finally do hear these views (they undoubtably will eventually) they wil give them more merit because now they know someone has been hiding these things from them and there must be a reason for it.
The salem witch trials were nothing short of maddness. Not most or some of the people were innocent, all of them were. Nobody can cast spells and curses they are not real. Yes they were precived as real but before the civil war black people were procived as unhuman and lesser beings just because someone convinces you of something doesn't make it fact.
Also the matrix was deffinately not christian themed. If any religous theme could be considered (which i dont belive)Buddhisim would be far more likely.
Agent Smith=suffering (the ultamite enemy of the buddhist) the enlightened one bringing everyone out of their "sleep" to a state of enlightenment=the real world as opposed to inside the matrix. Only in the buddha's death can he reach nirvana. (only with neo's death can the people br brought out of the matrix) Just a couple of major examples i could point out quite a few more.
I am sorry, but you are wrong. As far as the witchery stuff, you can throw voodoo in there, santera, I believe that those religions/practices are more than myth or fantacy as you assume. As far as black people...different subject but my views are that the europeans spread propoganda that dark skinned people were inferior because of fear. Its another thread, and we can discuss that if needed...but there is a lot of evidence to demostrate my point. Anyway...there are curses and things of that nature... But I really don't want to go back in forth on those issues.
The Matrix however is clearly Christian, however there are also Buddhist themes.
One message is with the spoon and the kid as he met the Oracle. The kid was clearly Buddhist, however the Oracle indicated that there were many who thought they were "The One" but none where.
Neo = The One, the Messiah - saves humans from Death - He is addressed in the the 1st one as "My own personal Jesus Christ".
But there is so much Christian symbolism, you can't possibably deny it.
Morpheus =John the Baptist... told of Neo's coming and baptized him in the first movie
Seraph- the name of an angel(s) that sits next to the throne of God... You must go through them to get to God.. as Neo did with the Oracle.
The name of Naiobe’s ship, the Logos, has biblical implications as well. Logos means “word” and, in a scriptural context, refers to the Word of God. Logos means God’s creative work on earth.
Neo performs miracles as a fullfillment of prophecy...
I could go on and on...
The point is the movie is not supposed to be a exact representation of Christ; however the creators took most of their themes from Christianity, and as I mentioned they pulled from other religions wich include Buddahisim
 

rylan1

Active Member
Back to the orginal point of the thread...
Are you people saying that "The Golden Compass" and the book "His Dark Materials" are not anti-God? I know we got off topic a little and would like to re-direct if possible.
I've posted an unbiased summary of the final book in my previous posts. It is a summary and nothing is added, except for the reader's anaylsis after the chapter(s) summary.
Go to sparknotes.com and it will tell you an unbiased theme, summary, characters...etc of the book. Here is a snipet about one of the characters.
Lord Asriel
Modeled after Satan in Milton’s Paradise Lost, Lord Asriel is the gentlemanly devil who plans to overthrow God and establish a Republic of Heaven. In other stories, Asriel would almost certainly be the villain. In Pullman’s trilogy, Asriel is complicated, arrogant, and unlikable, but in many ways he is also a heroic figure.
The name Asriel is derived from Asrael, the name of a biblical angel. In the Bible, Asrael’s appearance heralds the apocalypse. He is also an angel of death who severs human souls from human bodies. Lord Asriel hopes to induce an apocalypse of his own by waging war on God, and he separates Roger’s soul (his daemon) from his body.
In Milton’s Paradise Lost, Satan tempts Eve with the fruit from the tree of knowledge. In Pullman’s trilogy, Lord Asriel’s compelling slides of Dust and the aurora borealis convince Lyra to go on her quest for knowledge. Though Lord Asriel doesn’t ultimately play the serpent to Lyra’s Eve, he does instill in her the thirst for knowledge.
In the Book of Enoch (Biblical book) this angel is one of the "fallen angels" or demons.
 

scotts

Active Member
This is a direct quote from the website that you linked to
In the end, Will and Lyra don’t kill God. Instead, they free him, and he becomes one with the universe again
He is freed from some glass case.
Now here is a direct quote from you
In the third book, does it mention the name YAHWEH as God and that this is who is killed by the children in the book. And after HE is killed they are free to do whatever they want to do?
So in fact GOD is NOT killed in these books. However you have said many times that this is the message even though you have NOT read the books. I am sure nor will you do so, yet you will tell others not to read it.
To me your points are only valid after you have read the book and then can talk about what you believe, not what someone else is telling you about the books.
 

wangotango

Active Member
^ I'm not saying that the book isn't anti-God. Obviously if one of the characters is killing God then it isn't a positive Christian message, and could be considered anti-God, and being Christian i don't agree with it. Would I see the movie? Probably not. If I did see the movie would it turn me athiest? No. What I think most people are getting at (or me at least) is that a movie or book is most likely not going to alter one's beliefs, and that everyone is going to be exposed to this type of message or similar in life, there's just no avoiding it. If you don't believe in it that's really all you should care about.
About the whole Matrix/Star Wars issue. I could see Neo, or Luke being considered a Christ type figure in the story no problem. Was this the intent of the filmaker? Most likely not, so you can't say that there is an underlying Christian (or anything other religous theme) in these movies.
Again, I don't mean to sound negative or question your judgment, and I guess I could agree with you that the movie does have a somewhat anti-God theme, but it's not Atheist propaganda. What I'm getting at is that it's unlikely for you to go into this movie a Christian, and come out an atheist.
-Justin
 

dragonzim

Active Member
Just out of curiosity, do you come to this board and start these threads just to get a rise out of people and push your christian agenda? Out of all your posts in all sections of the board there are VERY few that are actually about fish. Just about every other user that I've seen has the majority of their posts in the actual SWF forums and not here in the Aquarium.
 

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by WangoTango
^ I'm not saying that the book isn't anti-God. Obviously if one of the characters is killing God then it isn't a positive Christian message, and could be considered anti-God, and being Christian i don't agree with it. Would I see the movie? Probably not. If I did see the movie would it turn me athiest? No. What I think most people are getting at (or me at least) is that a movie or book is most likely not going to alter one's beliefs, and that everyone is going to be exposed to this type of message or similar in life, there's just no avoiding it. If you don't believe in it that's really all you should care about.
About the whole Matrix/Star Wars issue. I could see Neo, or Luke being considered a Christ type figure in the story no problem. Was this the intent of the filmaker? Most likely not, so you can't say that there is an underlying Christian (or anything other religous theme) in these movies.
Again, I don't mean to sound negative or question your judgment, and I guess I could agree with you that the movie does have a somewhat anti-God theme, but it's not Atheist propaganda. What I'm getting at is that it's unlikely for you to go into this movie a Christian, and come out an atheist.
-Justin
I can agree w/ most of your comments... The Matrix however I think the creators intended on having those messages in the movie. But my point is that the author does have an agenda with this movie/book, and it is more than just a story because he has said he "wants to kill God in the minds of children." He also protrays evil as heroic characters in the book as if he is on the other side of what we know as good. If I saw the movie it wouldn't change my beliefs, but others might, look at the spark of interest the Da Vinci Code created. But if something is clearly against what you believe in than you should not patronage it.
For example if you are Jewish....would you go see a film that showed Hitler as a hero and that Jews were the ones that were on "The Dark Side" ... And lets say this film was transformed into some cartoon that used historical names etc...etc... would that be okay for your children? Is that propoganda that supports anti-semetism. Would you be worried that your children would recieve that message?
There's all sorts of messages out there but why should I sit down and listen to it in attempt to enjoy it if it is contrary to what I believe?
 

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by DragonZim
Just out of curiosity, do you come to this board and start these threads just to get a rise out of people and push your christian agenda? Out of all your posts in all sections of the board there are VERY few that are actually about fish. Just about every other user that I've seen has the majority of their posts in the actual SWF forums and not here in the Aquarium.
The anwser to your question is no.
I do appreciate you reviewing by posts, its flattering.
Seriously though,
I enjoy seeing other people's tanks..etc..etc. My posts in other forms are limited because most of the questions regarding the hobby are usually repetitive. Meaning that if you are on this site long enough you will see the same question by a different person many times.And any comments/questions I may have are usually stated by someone else.
As far as the aquarium...I tend to post in threads I find more interesting or relevant to me. As far as those "getting a rise out of people threads" I may comment, but usually won't start those types of threads. This thread's purpose was to bring attention to a topic that I felt people should be aware of.
Its a common stat that I believe something like 80-90% of Americans believe in God, with the majority being Christian. If there is something aimed at kids that is directly against your beliefs...wouldn't you want to know about it?
I don't have an agenda... however I do have a point of view. If you look at the # of views this thread has...its obviously a relevant topic, and a topic that most probably were unaware of.
 
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