think the death penalty is ever appropriate for animal cruelty?

[tiberius]

Originally Posted by itom37
http:///forum/post/2453470
Confoundingly I don't like the idea that so many tax dollars go towards housing criminals. This argument is inadequate as one in favor of the death penalty because so few inmates get executed compared to the whole prison population. My solution? Put em to work! Surely there are jobs we can compel them to do that would offset the costs of their incarceration.

I agree with this one here. Instead of testing chemicals and drugs on animals we should use the death row inmates. People would not want to commit heinous crimes if they knew they were going to be used as test subjects. I am sure the AAVS would be ecstatic about that. At least the inmates can respond to how they are feeling or we can at least perform an autopsy and know for sure what this drug will do for the population. Much better then testing on an animal whose DNA is like totally not like ours. No wonder so many drugs get pulled after they are approved. They worked fine on the rat!

 

[tiberius]

Originally Posted by Flricordia
http:///forum/post/2453494
I am in the south where I am always hearing of people killing all these rattlesnakes that crawl into their yards.
To me snakes, turtles and amphibians mean just as much as I am sure seals mean to others.
Humans will be humans. Let's reserve the Death Penalty for the rapists, murderers and child molesters.
I have black snakes in my area. The Southern Black Racers. My neighbor kills these because she is afraid of snakes! So sad when all they eat are the lizards. Lizards are good to have because they eat the bugs. But, the snake has got to eat also.
I was upset when a Wolf spider got squashed by a fellow camper. I screamed when I saw it come out of the raft (which was outside). He got macho I guess and took off his shoe to kill it and I was screaming "No don't kill it". But, to late. I told him that they eat palmetto bugs. They are the good spiders. But, he didn't care. He felt good killing something big and hairy.

 

[1journeyman]

Folks, we're close to the line of getting this thread locked. Calm down with the personal attacks.
Ino, for the record, like I said I respect your decision. I only posted the verse in Acts because I've heard some pretty wacky folks try to use the Bible to say we are never supposed to eat meat. Obviously from your subsequent posts that is not your opinion. I certainly don't think the Bible says we have to eat meat.
Surprisingly several people are for the death penalty in this case, so let me list some examples. Tell me if these would be deemed "animal cruelty" and therefore worthy of Capital Punishment:
*Having a vet declaw your cat
*Shooting animals "for fun"
*Fishing (for sport)
*Hunting (for trophies, not meat)

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2453772
Surprisingly several people are for the death penalty in this case, so let me list some examples. Tell me if these would be deemed "animal cruelty" and therefore worthy of Capital Punishment:
*Having a vet declaw your cat
*Shooting animals "for fun"
*Fishing (for sport)
*Hunting (for trophies, not meat)
I'm posting so you won't think I just ignored your response. but the above is so dumb that it doesn't merit any kind of answer. if you think declawing a house cat is in the same league as killing 53 sea lions for no reason, please start your own thread about it.

 

[peef]

Want something that really puts to light what happens out there.....
This is a PetSmart facitlity...
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs....b_edit_01_2008
This is a Chinese Fur farm....WARNING: GRAPHIC MATERIAL
(on animals no bare skin or anything)
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=fur_farm
To the mods sorry and I appoligize if you deem either of those inappropriate. They are from PETA.com if you do remove the links... Pretty terrible.

 

[wattsupdoc]

Michael's whole point as well as the point I was trying to make. Which seems to be totally disregarded that animal cruelty is highly speculative. It is an area that is as you can clearly see throughout this thread, too vague to be even considered for capital punishment. It seems as though some people are overly passionate on the subject and just lust for blood, in order to make a right. Two wrongs don't. While I definitely agree with the death penalty, and feel it should be used more often. (Heck I believe we ought to be hanging 'em from the neck in town square.) I suppose that makes me a deviant again. So be it. Most logical people would not accept the death penalty as a consideration for such a thing. now, if they (if some person is actually responsible) were caught red handed doing it. The area was protected and the only course to stop them was to shoot. Definitely I say, protect what ever life you can. But if they do prosecute someone for it and give them the death penalty, come on, wheres the common sense in that? Now, in this particular case, possibly 20yrs. or even life in prison forced to work as an animal advocate, sure.
My cousin was killed brutally in Miami Ok. in 1990. she was 19 yo. the mother of 2. They stabbed her multiple times and beat her brutally with a bat. The arrested one of them shortly after, he went to the hospital for his toe being jammed in his foot.(from kicking her) He confessed in the hospital. They found Rena down a well 3 days after she went missing. They got 2 yrs and 7 yrs in the pen. No where near the justice she deserved, and you want to execute someone for killing a bunch of seals. WHICH WAS WRONG.
To believe that a person would progress from killing animals to humans is totally ludicrous. There is a difference between animal life and human life. Not being able to distinguish between those MIGHT lead to progression to humans. Which implying that the death penalty is appropriate is indicative of a persons inability to distinguish between them.
Do they deserve to have rights, definitely. And probably to be increased and policed more.
People make mistakes, the "Humane" thing to do is to correct that mistake. Culture has a lot to do with the actions people take. What in one culture is seen as an atrocity to another, may be simply day to day occurrence in theirs. We have a responsibility to at least attempt to rehabilitate people. To educate and set examples. If in this case there was an entire village starving from competition for the fish. Then by all means to that village, those that killed these seals would be seen as heroes. My point is as said again, don't subscribe to the rhetoric. Try to find all the facts involved. Look at the whole picture. Otherwise you are just a puppet to the press, or whomever chooses to devise it. Apparently to me 53 seals couldn't be killed by one person alone, not in one setting anyways. This probably was an act acted out by several individuals. Which would indicate a perceived "need" for this to happen. Not that it was right, but look at the whole before you judge.
I have to admit, that second video was horrible. I couldn't watch much of it. They don't want to damage the fur with a bullet, and don't want to spend the money or time to euthanize. Repulsive. I didn't watch it until after my post.

 

[reefraff]

I like to kill animals for fun, wacked a Buffalo a few years ago. It was a great time. It isn't like I shot the neighbors cat (but all bets are off if I catch it on my truck again) I got about 400 pounds of lean meat and a cool robe and skull out of the deal. That doesn't make me a deviant any more than someone choosng to be a vegitarian or animal rights activist (within reason).

 

[peef]

Originally Posted by wattsupdoc
http:///forum/post/2453970
I have to admit, that second video was horrible. I couldn't watch much of it. They don't want to damage the fur with a bullet, and don't want to spend the money or time to euthanize. Repulsive. I didn't watch it until after my post.
Now animal cruelty like that, sure freaken thing kill em all! I would love to open up with a 50 cal on those So & So's.

 

[wattsupdoc]

Originally Posted by peef
http:///forum/post/2454037
Now animal cruelty like that, sure freaken thing kill em all! I would love to open up with a 50 cal on those So & So's.
Still, I wouldnt go that far. Again, culture. The best way to affect them is stop buying fur.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by peef
http:///forum/post/2453838
Want something that really puts to light what happens out there.....
This is a PetSmart facitlity...
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs....b_edit_01_2008
This is a Chinese Fur farm....WARNING: GRAPHIC MATERIAL
(on animals no bare skin or anything)
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=fur_farm
To the mods sorry and I appoligize if you deem either of those inappropriate. They are from PETA.com if you do remove the links... Pretty terrible.
Dang it, I clicked on a Peta link. I have a moral objection to that

The whole chinese thing shouldn't be surprising. You ever hear what their custom is regarding female babies born in hard times? Different customs.

 

[ino]

Wow... this is getting a bit silly. We shouldn't be insulting each other like this. Wattsupdoc, forgive me for my rude comment about your intelligence, and may I ask a mod to please close this thread? There is no point in us insulting each other.

 

[peef]

Originally Posted by wattsupdoc
http:///forum/post/2454041
Still, I wouldnt go that far. Again, culture. The best way to affect them is stop buying fur.
I know I know, I agree.....just a point yah know. I don't feel animals are equal to humans......as much as yeah they kind of should be......no they aren't

 

[alexmir]

I dont think an animal life is as valuable as a human life, but people who get a thrill out of killing an animal, for a reason other than food or shelter, IMO couldnt be of value to society.

 

[wattsupdoc]

Originally Posted by alexmir
http:///forum/post/2454116
I dont think an animal life is as valuable as a human life, but people who get a thrill out of killing an animal, for a reason other than food or shelter, IMO couldnt be of value to society.
Well, your certainly entitled to you opinion. But in my opinion yours needs to have some improvements. The senseless slaughtering of animals is not right. Neither is the suffering of those we take. In hunting, the latter is a occasional, unfortunate side effect. Mostly caused by those who either haven't enough experience to make it a swift end, or those who do not have the whole concept of being an ethical hunter. To take a wild animals life is a God given right. As it is also our duty to do so. Thankfully, we have progressed enough to not having to resort to the tactics of sticks, stones and running them off cliffs to do so. Which, btw are tactics that are distantly responsible for you being here. You ancestors did this, at some point in the past. It is part of what makes us human, to say it is not "humane" is ludicrous. And yes, there were animals that they took that were not used for food or clothing. But nuisance animals that threatened life or property.
So for you to say they don't have a value to society is an uninformed statement on your part.
Non hunters seem to have a difficult time understanding the mentality of hunters. If you have not experienced it, then IMO, you do not have the ability to decide what it is about. When you say that if the result is killing something then its the killing you enjoy, you are absolutely incorrect. For me at least, I find that whenever I don't get a swift kill to be very unnerving. It happens though from time to time. It is much, much more than the killing. It is a bonding experience, a relationship between you and mother nature, where you interact and have a direct impact. A skill of understanding an animal, and how to outwit it. Especially when their senses have remained wild, while ours have been generally "evolved" away. Non hunters generally assume too that this is an easy task, what with all our superiority, rifles and technology, and is "unfair". I can attest to the fact that myself have spent many more days coming home empty handed than days where I have succeeded. Which translates to my loss in the game.
All animal populations need to be kept in check, lest we progress backwards as a society. They become a nuisance and overall dangerous situation. Not all animals that need to be kept in check are desirable for food, nor other practical uses, some, clothing and decoration. So what exactly do you propose is done with these animals, who is then to do you the service of removing them from possibly passing in front of your vehicle?
No purpose to society, really?
Reefraff, I bet that robes sweet!

 

[happyvac]

Originally Posted by MIKE22cha
http:///forum/post/2453409
Funny how Michael Vick is in jail for pitbull fighting, yet Kobe Bryant is not for being accused of ----?
It seems that more and more people are more conserned with animals than people.
I mean on this forum you get flamed for keeping fish in too small of tank(not saying I have anything wrong with saying they're wrong), it think I've seen more reaction about keeping a yellow tang in a 55g than someone's reaction to hearing about a person being killed or something terrible like that on the news.

The only reason Vick's in all the hot water he's in is because he fought dogs...if he'd chosen to fight birds or something, there would have hardly been this much vitriol. It's just because people love their pet dogs so much that they see this and demonize him.

 

[maxalmon]

There's an easy solution, if the killing involved the enjoyment and financial profit based on a thrill kill or somehow invloved the joy of taking a life (either human or animal), then that person is not a benefit to society and should be removed from the gene pool

Please don't try and use the step on a cockroach or removing a bristle worm, there is a defined difference.

 

[darknes]

Wow, the death penalty for killing animals? I'm going to guess any of you who propose that never grew up on a farm or a small town. Kids go out hunting coons or rabbits for fun and turn out just normal. Have you heard of praire dog hunting? You basically sit and wait for them to pop out of their holes and take shots. I would like to see one good resource that can back the claim that shooting animals leads to a murderer. Now, senseless torture is something different, but still doesn't lead to murder.
I fish mainly for sport, catching the fish and throwing them back....should I be put to death? Usually when you're cleaning the fish, they're still alive. Now, I don't enjoy torturing the fish, it's the thrill of the catch, much like hunting.
I do agree that someone who tortures animals for the thrill of seeing them squirm has something wrong. However, the death penalty is nowhere near the right punishment for the crime.

 

[reefraff]

I have no problem if someone wants to do a trophy hunt as long as the circumstances warrant it. There are reasons to shoot coyotes, that doesn't mean every coyote should be shot. Same with mountain lions etc. Same goes for gopher hunts, big game etc.
If someone bashed the seals because they are competing with them for the fish is somewhat understandable. Gotta be a better way to handle that situation but it doesn't make the people that did it monsters.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Pontius
http:///forum/post/2453835
I'm posting so you won't think I just ignored your response. but the above is so dumb that it doesn't merit any kind of answer. if you think declawing a house cat is in the same league as killing 53 sea lions for no reason, please start your own thread about it.
But that is my point... you need to read my previous post. I don't believe it is cruel, but the "experts" sure do.
I posted earlier on this thread that the Humane Society of Dallas makes you sign an agreement when you adopt a cat stating you will not have your cat declawed because it is cruelty to animals.
I went there in the late 90's looking for my mom a cat. I saw them turn away a little girl and her mom from adopting a full grown female cat whom the little girl fell in love with but the mom said they must get it declawed.
The Humane Society puts animals to sleep that they do not adopt after so many days...
So, in your opinion, this is not animal cruelty, but to so called "experts" out there it is. They would rather put an animal to sleep before adopting it out to this "cruel" practice.
As I said in one of my first posts here, "animal cruelty" is far to subjective a term...

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Ino
http:///forum/post/2454054
Wow... this is getting a bit silly. We shouldn't be insulting each other like this. Wattsupdoc, forgive me for my rude comment about your intelligence, and may I ask a mod to please close this thread? There is no point in us insulting each other.
Everyone has been warned and it will be if it continues.