This is why I H A T E partisan politics...

reefraff

Active Member
The Beck thing was great. He was auctioning Pee 0bama for charity. The bidding was 11K before ebay shut it down. They don't allow the sale of bodily fluids. I doubt it really is pee but it's a pretty funny stunt. Some of the same idiots that defended government funding for a cross in a jar of pee are outraged at Beck for this stunt. .
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
You have proof that he didn't? Go read up on the subject when it was reported on a few years ago.
I noticed you haven't provided a definition of what a "few years" are in your warped interprtation of how this useless war in the Middle East is an economic advantage to this country.When accusing someone of something the burden of proof fails on the one with the accusation. That being you, you accuse the former president of starting a war based off of revenge, present your proof.
As far as a timeline. I would say within the next four years. Our economy could not sustain two major oil producing countries to be under oil restricting sanctions at the same time. Before Iraq there were talks of sanctions on Iran already due to their nuclear proliferation. Where would oil prices be with both Iraq and Iran unable to pump oil in sufficient quantities and sell it under sanctions. Yes the war was for oil. But not in the sense you and every other idiot in the world believe.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Four years? Let's see, your Magic Eight Ball tells you the economy will magically go on the upturn as soon as Obama is out of office. Go back to Econ 101, you just failed. Our economy is not solely based on the production and cost of oil. NATO has set the prices WAY befoe this latest skirmish began. You have this narrow-minded view on the justification of that war, and if you honestly think that it will pay for itself because the price of oil will come down because you think the Republican's will take over 2016 and immediately turn things around. UFB.
 

reefraff

Active Member
It will take a decade to dig us out of the hole 0bama is digging. By 2016 we'll be 20 trillion in debt and lucky to have AA credit rating. Just the interest is going to bury us.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
http://hnn.us/articles/1000.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/iraq/timeline/062793.htm
http://articles.cnn.com/2002-09-27/politics/bush.war.talk_1_homeland-security-senators-from-both-parties-republican-phil-gramm?_s=PM:ALLPOLITICS
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
WFour years? Let's see, your Magic Eight Ball tells you the economy will magically go on the upturn as soon as Obama is out of office. Go back to Econ 101, you just failed. Our economy is not solely based on the production and cost of oil. NATO has set the prices WAY befoe this latest skirmish began. You have this narrow-minded view on the justification of that war, and if you honestly think that it will pay for itself because the price of oil will come down because you think the Republican's will take over 2016 and immediately turn things around. UFB.
I never said all of that did I? I never claimed it boost our economy or fix the recession. I never said it justified the war either. All I have stated is the war as are all wars, from an economic standpoint.
Even your narrow minded amoeba starving mind can see two major oil producing countries under sanction with limited oil production would harm the economy on a level we can not afford. But maybe you can't. One must first have a grasp on the world economic situation and understand how much oil is affected and affects the entire economy.
Continue to call me an idiot. That is fine. But when Iraq is out producing Saudi in four years and oil prices remain level. Then maybe you will understand my point. And when the economy starts to come back maybe it will stAy at a higher level just because oil production can't be hindered as much. O
 

uneverno

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393539/this-is-why-i-h-a-t-e-partisan-politics/180#post_3502693
It will take a decade to dig us out of the hole 0bama is digging. By 2016 we'll be 20 trillion in debt and lucky to have AA credit rating. Just the interest is going to bury us.
It's going to take a lot longer than that.
We spend ~3 trillion a year. We bring in ~2 trillion a year in taxes. The 2 trillion we collect covers mandates - SS, Medicair/aid, servicing the debt and the like which money cannot be spent on anything else. The additional trillion is borrowed, and of that, roughly 2/3 goes to the military, which is discretionary, not mandatory spending.
Go ahead, be the politician to tell the growing baby boomer recipients of those mandates and that growing block of the voting population that you're going to geld their golden calf.
It has nothing to do with Obama or Romney. Both parties are far too scared to take that on.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by uneverno http:///t/393539/this-is-why-i-h-a-t-e-partisan-politics/180#post_3502706
It's going to take a lot longer than that.
We spend ~3 trillion a year. We bring in ~2 trillion a year in taxes. The 2 trillion we collect covers mandates - SS, Medicair/aid, servicing the debt and the like which money cannot be spent on anything else. The additional trillion is borrowed, and of that, roughly 2/3 goes to the military, which is discretionary, not mandatory spending.
Go ahead, be the politician to tell the growing baby boomer recipients of those mandates and that growing block of the voting population that you're going to geld their golden calf.
It has nothing to do with Obama or Romney. Both parties are far too scared to take that on.
Eventually common sense and math are going to come into play. There are a lot of other things I'd address before social security. Eliminate all services to people not in the country legally. Make it policy that at least 50% of foreign aid any country receives must be US produced goods of services. That would create a lot of jobs and open others up for tax paying residents, both good things for our bottom line. Eventually we will have to deal with entitlements but we need to cut other places first.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Please. The debate of how foreign oil production affects our economy has been going on for decades. Show me the correlation of rising oil prices and the direct OVERALL effect that had on our economy. Show me in the annual federal budget where it takes into account oil prices that are set by an International organization for ALL oil production, just not what's getting pumped out of the ground in Iraq and Iran. So you're saying that rising commodity prices (food, clothing, household goods, etc.) are directly affected and the result of increasing prices of oil. The US being in a major drought for over a year and a half, and the fact that it costs farmers more to cultivate their crops due to higher water costs, and livestock farmers have to pay more for hay and grain to feed their animals has nothing to do with the rising costs for those products. The rising costs in precious metals (gold, silver, copper, aluminum) have nothing to do with the rising costs in manufacturing any product that uses those metals (cars, electronics, appliances, etc.). There's a multitude of factors besides oil prices that affect our overall economy. Oil is only a small part of the picture. You make it sound we'll have a total economic collapse if oil prices continue to rise. I say that's a ridiculous assumption fed by the scare-monger oil industry.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Brother, here we go again. Let's target those blood sucking illegals, even though those "entitlements" comprise of MAYBE 2% of the annual budget. Sounds like someone wants to protect their own interests. Completely whack Social Security, including all disability benefits. Disability is just a cop out. There's plenty of good paying jobs out there for those with minor disabilities. I was at Bass Pro Shops yesterday, and I saw three gentlemen who appeared to have MS or some other form of dibilitating musular disease walking around the store, assisting shoppers, and going out to the parking lot to gather the shopping carts. There was an individual working at this Freddy's Burger joint I went into the other day that was on the grill in a wheelchair. We could save billions per year cutting those benefits.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Please. The debate of how foreign oil production affects our economy has been going on for decades. Show me the correlation of rising oil prices and the direct OVERALL effect that had on our economy. Show me in the annual federal budget where it takes into account oil prices that are set by an International organization for ALL oil production, just not what's getting pumped out of the ground in Iraq and Iran. So you're saying that rising commodity prices (food, clothing, household goods, etc.) are directly affected and the result of increasing prices of oil. The US being in a major drought for over a year and a half, and the fact that it costs farmers more to cultivate their crops due to higher water costs, and livestock farmers have to pay more for hay and grain to feed their animals has nothing to do with the rising costs for those products. The rising costs in precious metals (gold, silver, copper, aluminum) have nothing to do with the rising costs in manufacturing any product that uses those metals (cars, electronics, appliances, etc.). There's a multitude of factors besides oil prices that affect our overall economy. Oil is only a small part of the picture. You make it sound we'll have a total economic collapse if oil prices continue to rise. I say that's a ridiculous assumption fed by the scare-monger oil industry.
Can you transport or distribute any of that without oil? If oil prices double...Not gas, but oil...What happens?
The three longest U.S. recessions since the Great Depression coincided with exceptionally high oil prices. The first two lasted 16 months. The first followed the 1973 Embargo started in November 1973 and the second in July 1981. The latest began in December 2007 and lasted 18 months. There is little doubt that high oil prices vastly affect economies on a level more significant than any other commodity or influence.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393539/this-is-why-i-h-a-t-e-partisan-politics/180#post_3502733
Brother, here we go again. Let's target those blood sucking illegals, even though those "entitlements" comprise of MAYBE 2% of the annual budget. Sounds like someone wants to protect their own interests. Completely whack Social Security, including all disability benefits. Disability is just a cop out. There's plenty of good paying jobs out there for those with minor disabilities. I was at Bass Pro Shops yesterday, and I saw three gentlemen who appeared to have MS or some other form of dibilitating musular disease walking around the store, assisting shoppers, and going out to the parking lot to gather the shopping carts. There was an individual working at this Freddy's Burger joint I went into the other day that was on the grill in a wheelchair. We could save billions per year cutting those benefits.
Yes, let's target the blood sucking illegals who have no right to be in this country before we cut anything else. Just LA county spends over 600 million a year on welfare benefits for them. That doesn't include the jail costs which aren't cheap, about 1 billion a year for the entire state. Now consider what we spend a year on Bilingual services. Education, Billions. Translators for courts and hospitals? About 40 bucks an hour. No clue what it costs nationwide but there are a lot of courts and hospitals and they are all required to provide an official translator for anyone who requests it. Most don't pay income taxes and many that do are cheating the system. They are a drain on our country as a whole and need to be deal with one way or another.
Workers Comp tends to be very aggressive in job placement for those who are hurt on the job. When I was in the office equipment business I worked with a lot of people who had been placed there because of workplace injuries. Social Security should do the same thing. Hell in the time I've been on it they only re evaluated me once, about 3 years after I started on it. There was never any discussion of vocational training with them where workers comp worked with me for nearly a year before determining I wasn't going to recover far enough to work full time again.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Something needs to be done about the illegal immigration process. As of right now, it takes a Mexican citizen almost 10 years to go through the legal process of getting a visa to work in this country, ergo why they stay and work here illegally. Yes, states and feds do provide services to these individuals, but at the same time, they pay taxes on the purchases they make in the stores, gas tax for the gas they put in their cars, and city taxes on the rent they pay for where they live. People also don't look at the overall savings when it comes to the reduced costs you have to pay for goods and services because of the cheap labor the illegals provide. When farmers have to pay higher wages to get their crops out of the fields, compared to paying the cheap wages to illegals, you the consumer pays more for the products he sends to market. Is it a wash? Of course not. But what kind of tax revenue would you receive if you made all these people legal?
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393539/this-is-why-i-h-a-t-e-partisan-politics/180#post_3502777
Something needs to be done about the illegal immigration process. As of right now, it takes a Mexican citizen almost 10 years to go through the legal process of getting a visa to work in this country, ergo why they stay and work here illegally. Yes, states and feds do provide services to these individuals, but at the same time, they pay taxes on the purchases they make in the stores, gas tax for the gas they put in their cars, and city taxes on the rent they pay for where they live. People also don't look at the overall savings when it comes to the reduced costs you have to pay for goods and services because of the cheap labor the illegals provide. When farmers have to pay higher wages to get their crops out of the fields, compared to paying the cheap wages to illegals, you the consumer pays more for the products he sends to market. Is it a wash? Of course not. But what kind of tax revenue would you receive if you made all these people legal?
Why should mexicans be treated different than people from other countries? How do they make purchases if they earn so little pay? Fact is a lot of illegals working here send Billions back to their families in other countries while they sleeping 2 or 3 to a room. They don't buy a lot of stuff. And the only real price that would be affected by eliminating illegal workers is agricultural and a lot of those workers are actually here legally so it's hard to say how much prices might increase. For every illegal that clears out we get an honest citizen off unemployment and perhaps some of whatever other services they are receiving and collect at least some FICA taxes, perhaps some income tax. We would save plenty. And if we cut off the attraction at the source and the people who are sneaking in just to work are taken out of the equation we a better shot at stopping the smugglers and other dirtbags who are sneaking in. Unfortunately the politicians are more afraid of offending the hispanic vote than doing what's best for our country. There's no excuse why we are at least using E Verify nation wide.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393539/this-is-why-i-h-a-t-e-partisan-politics/180#post_3502790
Why should mexicans be treated different than people from other countries? How do they make purchases if they earn so little pay? Fact is a lot of illegals working here send Billions back to their families in other countries while they sleeping 2 or 3 to a room. They don't buy a lot of stuff. And the only real price that would be affected by eliminating illegal workers is agricultural and a lot of those workers are actually here legally so it's hard to say how much prices might increase. For every illegal that clears out we get an honest citizen off unemployment and perhaps some of whatever other services they are receiving and collect at least some FICA taxes, perhaps some income tax. We would save plenty. And if we cut off the attraction at the source and the people who are sneaking in just to work are taken out of the equation we a better shot at stopping the smugglers and other dirtbags who are sneaking in. Unfortunately the politicians are more afraid of offending the hispanic vote than doing what's best for our country. There's no excuse why we are at least using E Verify nation wide.
Because they are? How many Canadians who walk over here, get a job, get a place to stay, and never become legal citizens do you hear about? There'sa multitude of illegals from various European countries that "sneak" over here from Canada you never hear about. Why? Because all the Republican's and people in the South want to concentrate on are the one's that come here from Mexico.
"For every illegal that clears out we get an honest citizen off unemployment." You're joking right? Just go read the stories of the Alabama farmers that tried to get some of these "honest citizens" to come work for them in the fields. Most of them lasted less than a week, and demanded crap like multiple breaks, lunch breaks, more than minimum wage, etc. If you honestly think unemployed Americans will lower themselves to perform back-breaking manual labor, you'e been drinking too much of the Right Wing Kool-Aide.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393539/this-is-why-i-h-a-t-e-partisan-politics/180#post_3502817
Because they are? How many Canadians who walk over here, get a job, get a place to stay, and never become legal citizens do you hear about? There'sa multitude of illegals from various European countries that "sneak" over here from Canada you never hear about. Why? Because all the Republican's and people in the South want to concentrate on are the one's that come here from Mexico.
"For every illegal that clears out we get an honest citizen off unemployment." You're joking right? Just go read the stories of the Alabama farmers that tried to get some of these "honest citizens" to come work for them in the fields. Most of them lasted less than a week, and demanded crap like multiple breaks, lunch breaks, more than minimum wage, etc. If you honestly think unemployed Americans will lower themselves to perform back-breaking manual labor, you'e been drinking too much of the Right Wing Kool-Aide.
BS, 78% of illegals in the US are from Mexico or South America. 6% are from Europe or Canada. Which do you think is causing our problems? There are more illegals here from China than Canada and Europe combined.
Farmers can legally hire as many migrants as they need through the H-2A Visa program. LEGALLY! I have no problem paying a little more for fruits and veggies if I know the people making the money aren't here illegally AND aren't being treated like slaves.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
The fallacy with your argument is it's very difficult today to get an H-2 Visa. If they were that available, you don't think the illegals would grab those up instead of sneaking over here worrying whether they'd get caught and deported for just trying to get some money for their families to survive in Mexico? You think the one's coming from the South "cause more problems" is because that's the only one's you hear about in the news. Look at the statistics of the last year in regards to illegals coming over here. There were several months where they reported less than one percent of illegals coming across. The jobs are getting harder to find, and it cost them more to come over here to stay and work than it does to just find some cheap labor on the Mexican side.
I hope this new Mexico President may do something to change the attitudes and the way business is done in Mexico. Considering he's part of the PRI, I highly doubt it, but if he can turn things around, there may come a day when more people are leaving the US and working over there instead of the other way around.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393539/this-is-why-i-h-a-t-e-partisan-politics/180#post_3502865
The fallacy with your argument is it's very difficult today to get an H-2 Visa. If they were that available, you don't think the illegals would grab those up instead of sneaking over here worrying whether they'd get caught and deported for just trying to get some money for their families to survive in Mexico? You think the one's coming from the South "cause more problems" is because that's the only one's you hear about in the news. Look at the statistics of the last year in regards to illegals coming over here. There were several months where they reported less than one percent of illegals coming across. The jobs are getting harder to find, and it cost them more to come over here to stay and work than it does to just find some cheap labor on the Mexican side.
I hope this new Mexico President may do something to change the attitudes and the way business is done in Mexico. Considering he's part of the PRI, I highly doubt it, but if he can turn things around, there may come a day when more people are leaving the US and working over there instead of the other way around.
As of today the wait for a H2 visa is within 60 days for the Mexico City American Consular according to the state department web site. Farmers are required to run an add in the Newspaper for 2 weeks to show they cannot hire citizens for the work. At that point they can hire from the pool of Visa holders. It's just easier to hire illegals.
 
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