too many tangs to shake a stick at

[jillian ayers]

ophiura, thanx for the advice, i'll definately stick with cleaner shrimp now, I didn't know that cleaner wrasses did bad in the aquarium. Also, I left out one of the fish I will be putting in, the Royal Gramma. They're beautiful! Polarpooch, here's a pic of a black and white perc., yeah they're clownfish, a rare strain. my work sells them for $60.

 

[overanalyzer]

Originally posted by Jillian Ayers
I would love to have it, I am debating between getting it or some other tang. Here's what else I will put in the tank, everyone give me your ideas on what tang would do/look best
3 blue chromis
1 false clown
1 black and white clown
1 coral beauty
1 zebra moray
maybe a mandarinfish after a year or so
a couple of cleaner wrasses
Oh, how I would LOVE to put more (and the tang) in there but that would be overstocking. So, which tang would go best with this?
OK to the thread - Regal or Hippo Tang - how ever you wish to call it .... Planning on re-doing my living room and putting a 72 bowfront in there with a regal as the show piece fish ... please don't tell me to go bigger - got this floor support issue I can't resolve without major construction and renovation .... wife won't go for that
Jillian - a moray and a mandarin??? I'd think the eel would eat the mandarin quickly! I could be wrong ....
Also - will the false and black and white get on well togehter?? Maybe get some false black and whites - like those fake old pictures - all B&W with a little slash of orange?? would be cool if you could get them to breed.
Small Reefer - I once shoved my brother in a really small locker and he seemed to be getting on fine - he could breath and almost turn around and ......
Name dropping - uhm You know Bud Selig - the current a-hole in charge of baseball? well when he was Chancellor @ Kansas I one time ran him over and put him square on his A$$ - now that is NAME DROPPING!!!

 

[jillian ayers]

I've heard that zebra morays won't touch fish, but that the snowflake morays will. Which really sucks cause I wanted a snowflake bad.

 

[surfinsam]

I Just think that everyone should settle down and if you want to attack some one's preference on what size of a tank they keep their tang in keep it to the facts, there is no need to make personal attacks to get your point across I am logging in here a couple of times a week to get educated in the saltwater hobby but I and other members here need facts not the (now famous on this board) slandering of people. So the person has a yellow tang in a 29 and he is happy with it that way, he thinks the fish is happy , he enjoys his tank, these are all given facts from these posts, also he is educated another given that does not mean that he will never in his life learn and maybe if something happend to the tang in the 29 he will maybe change his mind and entertain your views but I have learned from experience that you cannot get someone to listen to you when you are verbally attacking everything that person hold sacred.
Look back at your posts and see that you did not support any of your claims and all that was said was stuff pertaining to personal attacks. I know no one will take the blame for it getting to that point but all of you need to chill out and help each other and not tear the other person down to some how stimulate your own desire for superiority. By the way I also have a master's degree and I am younger than both of you guys that have displayed your acheivements by age 28 or what ever it was. I also am beginning my PHD at a renoun university but do I know it all NO! Bu the greatest aspect of being intelligent is knowing when you need to know more about a subject, thats why I am here, thats why most of you are here, just keep it civil and we can all enjoy the hobby.
By the way I love the Blue Hippo Tangs they are sweet but I think the best ones out there are the Unicorn Tangs.
good luck everyone and be nice!!!!

 

[alti]

hey sam, if you think the tang police are bad here, check out the other message boards and this will seem like a pleasant conversation.

 

[neutronics]

hmm...how come I seem to be the only one who like sohal tang the most?

 

[ophiura]

surfinsam,
There are scientific facts involved here, about the adult size of tangs, and the behavior of tangs...a person with his education should know this.
While I don't oppose the keeping of a small tang in a 29g for the short term, saying it is fine for years is highly misleading. There is clearly a problem if the animal has not outgrown this tank: either the hobbyists refuses to see it (which is extremely common), or the animal's growth is stunted (meaning, it is not in good health). These, really, are the two options in this case. But his tang is dead anyway.
To challenge this with "I have my Master's degree and worked with this guy" is irrelevant, and certainly not providing any facts either, nor is it indicating that he is open to debate on the matter. It is as silly as saying "I don't want your other opinions on keeping the fish I am cramming into this tank, just tell me if I can have this one."
When we post, we agree to getting replies, and I can assure you this particular person knew what he was doing and what he was stirring up. And people tend to respond in the same tone as the post they are replying to...People are much more friendly when a person says "gosh, I didn't know that, he seemed really healthy," as opposed to calling everyone else uneducated idiots. There are people in this hobby who know far more than any of my books taught me, and they have never spent a day in school studying it.
I have a Master's degree (actually valued my marriage more and just didn't finish my PhD- so not just sitting around for 2 years working under someone). It is in this field. I think it is entirely relevant to reply to his statement with an equally educated counterpoint, and to clarify it to you (BTW, I am older than 28, but thanks anyway). In some ways, I was calling a spade a spade. It is in the same style as his argument. But unlike him, I highly value the insight, advice and experience of the people on the front lines of this hobby...not those sitting in some academic institution.
I think if you read back over the posts- the first two replies to his were "sorry, IMO, off my soapbox," and he threw the first big insult saying, in effect, the others don't have any right to their opinions because they are uneducated.
As I agree with their opinions, and the fact that a tang does not belong in that size tank long term, it was an insult to me, and you are darn tootin' I'll call that spade.
Short term tang in 29g (a few months)? OK, saying it is fine for years, go for it, is irresponsible. We need to encourage responsible reefkeeping. Someone with his education should be on the front lines of that.

 

[flamehawk]

Professionally handled and well said, Susan. Thanks.

 

[ophiura]

BTW, large tangs in a big tank are spectacular animals, so my vote is for Naso's in multi-thousand gallon tanks. When they actually reach wild adult size...wow...stunning creatures. Actually, I really quite like all tangs, though I have been afraid of a sohal He's off the books because of one bad attitude Sorry neutronics
And, Jillian, zebra morays have very strong jaws. IME, FYI

 

[flamehawk]

Sohal's are tough and definately have an attitude. Mine included. He is the king of the tank both in size( about 8 in.) and bravado. Will be interesting to see how he reacts to emperor(6-7 inches). He used to do well with my other adult emperor( remember the one which passed due to additive problem-see prior post)although then the emperor was clearly the boss. They sparred a bit but not much. Since I have the Q tank right next to show tank, they are definatley eyeing each other out. I wounder if the sohal thinks it's the first emperor that for some reason is in another tank??

 

[surfinsam]

O, I agree with everything you said in your post I was simply trying to get everyone to realize that this "debate " was becoming more than it should. I want to get reliable responses and it does not matter what degree you have to give a reliable response. Sure they are scientific facts and numbers to substain everything that was said in opposition to his post however the fact is the responses were getting rude and insulting because some one ventured to say "you guys are idiots and I have a far superior intellect than any of you" does not mean that you in turn must say the same thing and lower yourself to that persons lack of basic intelligence. I for one believe that when visitors come and look around here for advice and see such spin offs with insults and degrading remarks you may in turn lose other people who have valuable information to share and help all of us learn in this hobby.
I am happy to hear the value of your marriage exceeded your thirst for educational satisfaction, but I am sure that you and many others here can agree with me that his disregard for your advice is his choice and he must live with his decisions and nothing you say whither it is crude or not will change that so why whip a dead horse it will go no where?????
Just my 2 cents. on that topic.
BTW I am under 28 with two masters and hoping to finish up my PHD in technology and to tell the truth there is nothing that I know less about than this hobby right now so I appreciate every ounce of knowledge I can "siphon" out of you guys to help me. I will not be a person who does not take heed of your advice as a matter of fact I received advice from a few people here and I in turn researched what they were saying and found it to be accurate and listened that is the only way, we are not all perfect, we are not the alpha and Omega of Saltwater Hobbying. Listen and learn, reading does not mean you retain the information take it to heart and listen and learn.

 

[ophiura]

surfinsam,
Believe me when I say I am calling a spade a spade.
This topic, about how to properly address a situation like tangs in small tanks, has been gone over a lot recently. And the reasons people react the way they do has been presented as well. It is a passionate issue, expressed in a passion-less format. The nuances of people's argument can not be presented as they wish. Rudeness and desperation appear to be the same.
However, there was something different here! I do not expect people to be told they have no basis for their opinions because of their lack of formal education on the topic, and to be cheerful in return. Small reefs is getting back what he dished out. And you are right, there is no point trying to get him to change his mind- beating a dead horse- I doubt he ever intended to reply again in the first place.
But for people researching this topic, well, they are getting the very strong impression, one would hope, that this is a really bad idea. It really really is. People have tried it, but the animals have failed. It really stinks to be the guinea tang, especially in an experiment that fails in the overwhelming majority of cases, but people keep trying it just the same, as if one day it will work.
I think we must agree to disagree here.

 

[surfinsam]

O, do not get me wrong I agree with you and the fact that the Tang should not be an experiment and I agree that his comments are what started the entire thing. I agree that Tangs must be housed in a tank of appropiate size and I guess you were right about the fact that he had no intentions of replying. I just feel that if people want to get involved in this hobby they should research before hand so that instances like this one do not occur I went to a LFS where they had a fish where the previous owner had housed it in a tank that was definetly too small for the fish and it kept growing but because of the limitations in space it grew sorta funny and now looks deformed that fish constantly came down with numerous diseases and stress related problems. So i understand what it is that you are saying maybe some people have to learn the hard way.
Good advice ophiura, I visited your web site very interesting stuff. Keep being passionate and giving advice. (see I went on to research you a little) You have to do that sometimes before you can trust someone's information

 

[sting_ray29]

-

 

[flamehawk]

I'm done with this thread and topic.

 

[saltlover]

I vote for the sailfin tang! I have one in my 80 gallon tank and he is great. Very personable.
If I had a bigger tank I would get a unicorn tang they are very cool.

 

[saltlover]

I vote for the sailfin tang! I have one in my 80 gallon tank and he is great. Very personable.
If I had a bigger tank I would get a unicorn tang they are very cool.

 

[drue131]

I have a purple tang and a hippo in a 25 gallon. they are doing fine. if they were full grown I would have a problem. they are 3 fto 4 inches.

 

[teetee]

Ohhhh boyyy,we are about to get jucier now.eek:

 

[jillian ayers]

I sense a troll in our mist...