unions

fish master

fish master

Member
ive been reading about all these union put downs. everyone that talks down about them doesnt know what the unions are about. unions keep these big companies from taking advantage of the worker. unions are about safety, unions are about trained people. let me give some examples. there is a crane on the job,in non union jobs, the guy digging the ditch out with the shovel can jump in the crane and can pick a load putting everyone at risk. in union job that crane operator has all kids of training before he can step into that crane. if you have family or kids working on that job i think you would want the union guy in that crane,if you say no your lieing. if you didnt have unions you would be working for dirt pay. i keep hearing about (you cant fire a union worker) that is bull. iam a union superintendant for a major road contractor. i fire people all the time. if they dont perform, they get sent down the road.the ones that work hard stay.the ones that are fired might get a job somewhere else,but that is no different than you,if you get fired you go find a job somewhere else. i worked for a non union company when i was younger,we had an accident that killed one and injured two other guys.it was something that they should not have been doing, but the company told them to do it or they would be fired. if that was union it would not have happened. like i said i been non union and ive been union, and i would pick union anyday.so for all you people that want to beat up on unions,your just wasting oxygen that the smart people of the usa need.
 
darknes

darknes

Active Member
Sorry, but I'm going to call you on this one.
As a manufacturing engineer I've worked at both union and non-union facilities. The current place I work now is non-union and we have world-class safety. You have to have certification to work a crane, forklift, etc.
Unions had a purpose at one time. Now, companies understand that an injured employee costs much more than a safe employee. Non-union companies do not pay dirt...why would you work at a place that doesn't pay anything?
The attitude between factory workers and office workers is so much better with a non-union facility and there is not the tension you have with unions. At a union company, I could not go on the floor and ask people to perform a special engineering instruction without getting harassed.
I am not saying union employees do not work hard, but they work by quotas. Once they meet their quota for the day, they sit on their ass until the shift is over. I am also not allowed to accuse a union employee of not doing their job, you have to go through a lengthy process to do a write-up.
I'm sorry, but today I see no benefits for unions.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Originally Posted by fish master
http:///forum/post/2874598
let me give some examples. there is a crane on the job,in non union jobs, the guy digging the ditch out with the shovel can jump in the crane and can pick a load putting everyone at risk.

Yeah, that happens all the time.
I'm not anti-union per se but you certainly didn't help your cause.
Do you think unions can to no harm? Are all unions excellent or is it possible that some may occationally overstep their bounds? For reference I point you to the Steel industry.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Oh man. My cup of tea.....when I get more time I will reply to this in depth. I have worked at non union and union plants. My wife used to be a postal employee....I will give examples of how a union can and does cripple a company. Not all aspects of unions are bad, I will agree to that, but the stances many use to defend unions are wrong for the most part..
 
fish master

fish master

Member
that is good that you have a company like that. but not all non union companyies are like that. you dont have to a certification to run a crane. some companies want a certification but most dont. its not a law. our union guys work until the shift is over. if the sit on their #$%@###$, they get sent down the road
 
tangman99

tangman99

Active Member
I too have worked both union and non-union jobs. I never saw any advatage to having a union at the jobs I worked. My father-in-law was a Union Representative for the company he worked at for almost 30 years. The company finally got tired of being held hostage by the Union and closed all of it's areas that were union thus geting rid of all their union run locations. They gave everyone the chance (including my father in law) the opportunity to transfer to another location that was not unioned. He refused and in candid talks he states with no reservations while his intentions were to help the workers, the union did everything to itself and got what it deserved.
 
veni vidi vici

veni vidi vici

Active Member
I'm a Union Carpenter and i have and do work both sides .The union side is by far the better.However i believe our Representatives are getting a little greedy.There has to be a common ground for both sides,The Unions and The Companies who provide the work,so that both ends are able to prosper.Not just one side.The Unions where created to provide the blue collar workers with fair pay and benefits along with safety.I'm still Pro -Union, but times are tough and i believe for the benefit of all parties and America we need to see some concessions made on the Organized Labor side right now.
 
aquaknight

aquaknight

Active Member
Sorry, but the original example isn't remotely accurate. I work for a non-union heavy equipment manufacturer, and the workplace is very, very structured. Drivers have to be retrained, just to be able to operate a higher class forklift, let alone for some random employee to 'just jump on one of the heavy lift cranes.'
There seems to be, at least IMO, that there is a differences in the different employment fields. People/unions in the service field, like carpentry, home-building, etc, seem like genuinely, all of them have to perform, or else. And where it's easily identifiable who's not performing. But in some of the unionized manufacturing companies, they really seem to be trying sucking the last drop of blood from the company. Where are documented case of employee's screwing off, and nothing gets done about it.
 
ruaround

ruaround

Active Member
unions are good and bad... IMO more bad than good... the experience i have had with people that have been in a union for a long time is they are WAY more whiney and WAY more lazy... and they love to drop the "im going to call my union rep" card ALOT... Idaho became a "right to work" state back in the mid 80's which was probably the best thing that ever happened to the working people... it cracks me up that unions still try to strike... scabs will cross the line any day of the week!!!
 
maxalmon

maxalmon

Active Member
I used to own a manufacturing company and had to attend trade shows to show off new products, I would pull my trailer up to within about 10-15 feet of where my booth was (trailer was 5x8) but due to unions I was not able to unload the trailer, nor was I allowed to move anything from the trailer to my space and had to just sit and wait for 2 guys to come over and move stuff 10feet, sometimes we would have to wait for 2-4 hours... Same is true for when it was time to packup and leave, everybody at the show would just be sitting around waiting for the unions guys to show up. Ontop of all this, it cost me $250 that I had to pay for the guys to move my show stuff 10 feet and I had no options, either pay the fee or they wouldn't unload the trailer and get fined if you did try and unload the trailer yourself. This happened at several conventions centers.... Were talking about a couple of foldup tables, some boxes and display stuff and a handcart to move everything.....There is absolutley no way to justify the above
 
veni vidi vici

veni vidi vici

Active Member
Originally Posted by maxalmon
http:///forum/post/2874936
I used to own a manufacturing company and had to attend trade shows to show off new products, I would pull my trailer up to within about 10-15 feet of where my booth was (trailer was 5x8) but due to unions I was not able to unload the trailer, nor was I allowed to move anything from the trailer to my space and had to just sit and wait for 2 guys to come over and move stuff 10feet, sometimes we would have to wait for 2-4 hours... Same is true for when it was time to packup and leave, everybody at the show would just be sitting around waiting for the unions guys to show up. Ontop of all this, it cost me $250 that I had to pay for the guys to move my show stuff 10 feet and I had no options, either pay the fee or they wouldn't unload the trailer and get fined if you did try and unload the trailer yourself. This happened at several conventions centers.... Were talking about a couple of foldup tables, some boxes and display stuff and a handcart to move everything.....There is absolutley no way to justify the above
Ive worked at McCormick Place for trade shows and i have to say its ridiculous.I was ashamed of what goes on there.Ive gotten in fight with electricians for plugging in A light,Decorators union for sticking a Velcro backed picture on the display......I mean real nasty screaming matches to the point where we going to throw punches.I will never go back to doing that again.
People actually leave product there because its cheaper.Either that or it gets stolen.
 
ruaround

ruaround

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2874967
Maybe we should ask people in third world countries if they rater be unionized or not
perhaps you should ask them if they have a job... its pretty hard to form a workers union if there is no work...
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by ruaround
http:///forum/post/2874978
perhaps you should ask them if they have a job... its pretty hard to form a workers union if there is no work...
ever look at the label of the things you wear gee a lot of it is still made in america right
 
chilwil84

chilwil84

Active Member
knowing this thread is based on the automakers problems, all skilled union workers(carpenters, electrictions, etc) should be ashamed for supporting people making as much to more than them just because they are union in a job that they have taken the skill out of with robots years ago.
 
pbienkiewi

pbienkiewi

Member
Union and Non-Union still have to follow the same safety rules. Rules are regulated and enforced by OSHA. You sugested that union is safety orientated and non-union is not. Both have to follow safety precautions. OSHA inspector showes up to the same job union or not. He will be asking, Who is the competent person. You better know and he getter know his stuff. You better be using all necessary PPE. What kind of soil you digging in, A,B,C or a mix. How wide and deep is this hole? Did you test the air quality in the hole? Are there trench boxes? Are they assembled correctly? Is there tab data on the boxes? how are people entering and exiting the excavation? How is the ladder set set up? how many ladders should there be? Is the soil slopped to the right degree to the type of soil? But then again you didn't see him inspecting the job aways away and all the pictures he took. Your a union superintendant for a major road contractor so your safety guy better be following the rules. Sometimes it is better to work safely than harder. You mentioned that a non union company where there was one fatal and two injurys. The non union company MADE someone do something. What I see there was failure on the company to train their employees.
Now to the union is better than non union part. It all depends on what field of work you do. I have seen where a police union settled for a 1%, 2%, 3%, and 4% raises over 5 years. You know the patrolman got the 1% and the highest up got the 4%. A union is there to make money. You pay your dues and they will fight to get the best they can get for you so the company does not $crew it's employees. Everyone is out there to make the all mighty dollar. believe it or not I do not favor one or the other.
 
t316

t316

Active Member
Originally Posted by pbienkiewi
http:///forum/post/2875127
Now to the union is better than non union part. It all depends on what field of work you do. I have seen where a police union settled for a 1%, 2%, 3%, and 4% raises over 5 years. You know the patrolman got the 1% and the highest up got the 4%. A union is there to make money. You pay your dues and they will fight to get the best they can get for you so the company does not $crew it's employees. Everyone is out there to make the all mighty dollar. believe it or not I do not favor one or the other.
Where I come from, you have to be man enough to negotiate your own raise....

I have never had an army standing behind me to step in, just in case I wimp out and don't get what I want. Maybe I'm old school though....
 
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