Upgrading my 65 gallon Reef - Sump/fuge
- Thread starter al&burke
- Start date
kzoobenjamin
New Member
I guess I'm not really following you on this one. I wouldn't try to push more than 5X through the refugium, but I'm not not sure why the sump flow rates can't be higher. What difference does it make how many GPH you are putting through the sump? Also, IMO a higher turnover in the sump means better skimming efficiency, otherwise you are re-skimming the same water over and over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/383256/upgrading-my-65-gallon-reef-sump-fuge#post_3350878
Love the bonsai type aquascape!!!! I wouldn't try to push more than 5X through the sump. Skimmer efficiency is important.
So, the total turnover of your DT including powerheads is 4.6? That seems very low to me. I usually try to shoot for 20X total turnover, but I also like corals that prefer high flow rate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al&Burke http:///forum/thread/383256/upgrading-my-65-gallon-reef-sump-fuge/20#post_3351368
Any comments on these flows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/383256/upgrading-my-65-gallon-reef-sump-fuge#post_3350878
Love the bonsai type aquascape!!!! I wouldn't try to push more than 5X through the sump. Skimmer efficiency is important.
So, the total turnover of your DT including powerheads is 4.6? That seems very low to me. I usually try to shoot for 20X total turnover, but I also like corals that prefer high flow rate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al&Burke http:///forum/thread/383256/upgrading-my-65-gallon-reef-sump-fuge/20#post_3351368
Any comments on these flows.
acrylic51
Active Member
Ben Your thinking might seem logical on flow through the sump, but it's not. Increased flow through the sump will not increase your skimmer efficiency, and will actually decrease it's efficiency, and the harder you push flow through the sump you also increase chances of micro bubble issues. Your skimmer works off of "contact time or dwell time" for it to be efficient, so increase rate through the sump hinders that time. We all know the skimmer doesn't process 100% of the water that endures the sump, but that is also figured into the flow rates of 3-5X turnover rates.
kzoobenjamin
New Member
I guess I follow you on the micro bubbles part, but I just don't see how the flow through the sump would have anything to do with the contact or dwell time of the skimmer unless you are using a counter current skimmer. If you are using a "pumped" skimmer, the contact/dwell time is going to be the same regardless of turnover rate of the sump. I am also assuming that your skimmer is pulling water from and returning it to the sump.
The only reason I say it would increase efficiency is that instead of the skimmer re-skimming the same water over and over with only a small introduction of "dirty" water into the sump would seem less efficient than skimming a higher percentage of "dirty" water with a higher sump turnover.
The only reason I say it would increase efficiency is that instead of the skimmer re-skimming the same water over and over with only a small introduction of "dirty" water into the sump would seem less efficient than skimming a higher percentage of "dirty" water with a higher sump turnover.
acrylic51
Active Member
Curious as to what you mean by counter current skimmer and pumped skimmer? Water turbulence around your skimmer pump and changing levels will also affect the skimmers pump performance. I could see an argument about flow rate on a record style skimmer, but again the flow rate to a record skimmer isn't anywhere near what your thinking as well. Another good source would be to look up MRC Beckett skimmers and records and it will/should explain the feed rate to your skimmer.
acrylic51
Active Member
Ben I guess what I'm getting at is your skimmer pump will only intake "X" amount of water to be processed. Regardless of what your flow rate is to/through the sump. So with that in mind what are you gaining by pumping double the amount of water through the sump? Nothing!! Your additional flow you want or need should be coming from inside the DT, not through the sump.
kzoobenjamin
New Member
I don't know as I'm necessarily gaining anything, but you had mentioned not exceeding 5X in the sump.
If you are increasing the flow rate in the sump then you are increasing the flow rate in the DT. I don't really like the look of powerheads so my current build won't have any and I will be relying totally on return pump to supply 20X turnover to the DT. I guess I will see how it works. It will be a learning experience one way or the other.
If you are increasing the flow rate in the sump then you are increasing the flow rate in the DT. I don't really like the look of powerheads so my current build won't have any and I will be relying totally on return pump to supply 20X turnover to the DT. I guess I will see how it works. It will be a learning experience one way or the other.
acrylic51
Active Member
Ben maybe I'm confusing a bit!!! The general consensus is to run anywhere between 3-5X turnover rate through a sump. There are lots of variables, but they are general guidelines....even pushing it to 5X yes you have increased flow through the sump, but nothing majorly drastic. Your allowing all the components of your filtration to work properly. Your allowing junk if any to settle at it's lowest point which is your sump, where you could easily remove it from there vs inside your DT. As I pointed out you gain nothing by mad flow through the sump, but possibly creating micro bubbles, and pushing "junk" back into the DT that could have settled out in the sump. The skimmer will only "intake" "X" amount of water so nothing is gained. Mad insane flow through the sump could; depending on the sensitivity of the skimmer make it less effective.
You pointed out for your setup you want clean. Trust me I'm by no means a fan of PH's or stuff hanging inside the tank. If you read through my build thread you'd understan how anal I am about that look. With that being sai to get your turnover rate in excess of 20-50X you would utilize PH's and to a lot of peoples dislikes at times CL's. If you want extreme flow inside the tank you should look at CL system. This is where you get/develop your flow, not through the sump.
Take a look at items like Sea Swirls, OceansMotions. This would give you a clean look a your after. I'm curious again you mentioned your setup. What size tank? What size sump? Again in th past I've tried pushing 5800gph through a 5' x 30" wide sump, an it wasn't successful. Sometimes you have to learn the hard way and I did. Again look into CL's, Sea Swirls, penductor, and eductors (spelling). They will minimize intrusion inside your tank. Check out the OceansMotions revs. As water pressure is applied to them they drop down into the tank and rotate or index and provide flow and when water pressure is taken away the pop back up out of the water....
You pointed out for your setup you want clean. Trust me I'm by no means a fan of PH's or stuff hanging inside the tank. If you read through my build thread you'd understan how anal I am about that look. With that being sai to get your turnover rate in excess of 20-50X you would utilize PH's and to a lot of peoples dislikes at times CL's. If you want extreme flow inside the tank you should look at CL system. This is where you get/develop your flow, not through the sump.
Take a look at items like Sea Swirls, OceansMotions. This would give you a clean look a your after. I'm curious again you mentioned your setup. What size tank? What size sump? Again in th past I've tried pushing 5800gph through a 5' x 30" wide sump, an it wasn't successful. Sometimes you have to learn the hard way and I did. Again look into CL's, Sea Swirls, penductor, and eductors (spelling). They will minimize intrusion inside your tank. Check out the OceansMotions revs. As water pressure is applied to them they drop down into the tank and rotate or index and provide flow and when water pressure is taken away the pop back up out of the water....
kzoobenjamin
New Member
I don't want to hijack this thread any more than I have already done but, it will be a 26G DT and a roughly 15 gallon custom sump pushing around 450GPH (not quite 20x). There will also be a 10 gallon refugium. I will probably start a thread in the next week or so when I have some actual pictures to post, but I'm not sure if it's DIY or Nano.
al&burke
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by KzooBenjamin http:///forum/thread/383256/upgrading-my-65-gallon-reef-sump-fuge/20#post_3351538
I don't want to hijack this thread any more than I have already done but, it will be a 26G DT and a roughly 15 gallon custom sump pushing around 450GPH (not quite 20x). There will also be a 10 gallon refugium. I will probably start a thread in the next week or so when I have some actual pictures to post, but I'm not sure if it's DIY or Nano.
Oh don't worry about that - I am the king of hijacking I think. Either or someone will help. SOund like a lot of flow though.
Originally Posted by KzooBenjamin http:///forum/thread/383256/upgrading-my-65-gallon-reef-sump-fuge/20#post_3351538
I don't want to hijack this thread any more than I have already done but, it will be a 26G DT and a roughly 15 gallon custom sump pushing around 450GPH (not quite 20x). There will also be a 10 gallon refugium. I will probably start a thread in the next week or so when I have some actual pictures to post, but I'm not sure if it's DIY or Nano.
Oh don't worry about that - I am the king of hijacking I think. Either or someone will help. SOund like a lot of flow though.
al&burke
Active Member
I took a couple pictures of my 65 reef after I removed all the rock to get the infected fish out. I basically randomly put it back in being carefull to put the good rocks with the coral atached carefully back in, tell me what you think. With the new scape I want to have more larger caves and pillars of rock, don't know how I am going to do that. Thanks for looking.
