Vodka Dosing.

[renogaw]

i've got two herbivores, a kole and a foxface, but they are piggies with the flake food, mysis and such. i only see the kole nipping at the glass every once in a while when i havent scraped for a few days. i have no algae in my tank whatsoever, and i've even thrown in a hair algae covered rock and had it cleared in less than a day so its not the DT i'm worried about. it's the nastiness they can't get to.
i started reading the article linked at the beginning of this thread, but havent had the time to just sit and read it since i'm at work.
my problem is i've got two suncorals that have been declining since i haven't been feeding them. my nitrates were wayyyy too high because of having to feed them so much and with sps i didn't want to have that issue. so, i'm sorta reading that you actually can increase your feedings and keep nitrates down this way.

 

[spanko]

Yup tis the whole idea. Keep feeding the anaerobic bacteria a carbon source to convert the nitrates into nitrogen gas, then feed the tank more. Encourage growth and color in the coral.
Do you have any critters in the fuge to keep it clean, snails, crabs, etc?
If you are getting cyano on the Chaetomorpha it almost sound like not enough flow through to tumble the algae.
Can you take the suncoral out of the tank for feeding? Then put them back when finished.

 

[florida joe]

Yup tis the whole idea. Keep feeding the anaerobic bacteria a carbon source to convert the nitrates
Henry my dear friend I am going to have to disagree with that statement. I may be missing something but dosing as I understand it and employ it is the introduction of a carbon source (vodka). To stimulate the growth of heterotrophic bacteria in the water column. Which assimilates nitrates in their bio mass And that bio mass is removed via protein skimmer or in my case removal of a mass in my refug. Not involving anaerobic bacteria
Of course my friend I can and most likely am wrong

 

[spanko]

My mind is wandering, trying to do too many things at once here at work and it always gets int he way of reefing!!!! You are correct sir it is heterotrophs not anaerobes.

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/3154723
My mind is wandering, trying to do too many things at once here at work and it always gets int he way of reefing!!!! You are correct sir it is heterotrophs not anaerobes.
My friend consider yourself lucky at least you Have a mind to wander as in most cases I am not that lucky

 

[renogaw]

Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/3154709
Yup tis the whole idea. Keep feeding the anaerobic bacteria a carbon source to convert the nitrates into nitrogen gas, then feed the tank more. Encourage growth and color in the coral.
Do you have any critters in the fuge to keep it clean, snails, crabs, etc?
If you are getting cyano on the Chaetomorpha it almost sound like not enough flow through to tumble the algae.
Can you take the suncoral out of the tank for feeding? Then put them back when finished.
i've put snails, crabs, hermits, etc into the fuge area with the dsb, and every single one of them somehow finds its way out of this area and into the first compartment of my sump. this, along with the darkening of the dsb along the glass, worries me that i might have a sulfur issue in the dsb, but i have no sulfur smell coming from it...
my fuge area is not big enough to put a pump in to tumble the chaeto, and i've got so much chaeto in there that i'd not even be able to tumble it (it just grows so friggin fast, hense my thoughts of false phosphates) but i do have about 350gpm going through it. the cyano is ontop of the chaeto, not through out it so i just think the surface is not agitated enough to stop cyano.

 

[spanko]

Well IMO if it is growing that fast then you can export the nutrients by removing (harvesting) some of it so it is not so cramped. Remember the more it grow the more nutrient you can export. If you stunt it's growth by letting it get crammed in there so tightly it is not serving your purpose as efficiently as you can have it do. Then harvest the chaeto down to a size that can be tumbled and harvest it more often to keep it down to that manageable tumbable size. You are letting it get stagnant and letting the nutrient accumulate on the chaeto so that the cyano feeds off of the nutrients. I hope I am making some sense to you, small enough chaeto ball so that it can move in your flow.
This harvesting more often to allow the chaeto to grow faster and export more nutrient will help to lower your nitrates. And keep harvesting = exporting.

 

[al mc]

I am trying to balance the desired algae growth with the vodka dosing. I have found that as my nitrates drop under 5 with the vodka dosing that my algae starts to die off. I am willing to trade my quest for '0' nitrates for nitrates of '5ish' with increased coral feeding and keeping the algae growing, albeit slower than before I started the vodka dosing.
I have also missed some days with the dosing with no observeable negative consequences. But unlike Henry I have few sps, mostly softies and LPS corals

 

[renogaw]

Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/3154829
Well IMO if it is growing that fast then you can export the nutrients by removing (harvesting) some of it so it is not so cramped. Remember the more it grow the more nutrient you can export. If you stunt it's growth by letting it get crammed in there so tightly it is not serving your purpose as efficiently as you can have it do. Then harvest the chaeto down to a size that can be tumbled and harvest it more often to keep it down to that manageable tumbable size. You are letting it get stagnant and letting the nutrient accumulate on the chaeto so that the cyano feeds off of the nutrients. I hope I am making some sense to you, small enough chaeto ball so that it can move in your flow.
This harvesting more often to allow the chaeto to grow faster and export more nutrient will help to lower your nitrates. And keep harvesting = exporting.
makes sense, i just don't like throwing stuff away, and no one in my reef club wants it, and it's not worth trying to sell since it's too expensive to ship for the $10 it has seemed to be down to everywhere.

 

[florida joe]

makes sense, i just don't like throwing stuff away
Simply throwing something away and exporting for the benefit of the tank as a whole IMO are two completely different things

 

[renogaw]

yea, i guess heh. i just put up a new post for trying to sell some chaeto on other forums, if no bites i'll just toss it i guess.

 

[spanko]

+1 with Joe here. I am with you Ren, don't like to just can stuff, but in this case to get a handle on the nutrient export pitching some algae is a small price to pay here. Maybe a local fish store will take it? Maybe even a little in store credit could be had?
So Joe you agree with my suggestion here as a tryout prior to jumping into carbon dosing?

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/3154911
+1 with Joe here. I am with you Ren, don't like to just can stuff, but in this case to get a handle on the nutrient export pitching some algae is a small price to pay here. Maybe a local fish store will take it? Maybe even a little in store credit could be had?
So Joe you agree with my suggestion here as a tryout prior to jumping into carbon dosing?
Most definitely my good friend. As you and I know dosing is NOT something to just jump into

 

[bgrimm]

Great read guys and lots of good information. I have a question though. How do soft corals react to the vodka dosing?
Thanks for the help.
Ben

 

[renogaw]

Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/3154911
+1 with Joe here. I am with you Ren, don't like to just can stuff, but in this case to get a handle on the nutrient export pitching some algae is a small price to pay here. Maybe a local fish store will take it? Maybe even a little in store credit could be had?
So Joe you agree with my suggestion here as a tryout prior to jumping into carbon dosing?
i've actually sold 5 bags so by monday my chaeto should be so small it will not be crowded in there heh

 

[renogaw]

Originally Posted by bgrimm
http:///forum/post/3155906
Great read guys and lots of good information. I have a question though. How do soft corals react to the vodka dosing?
Thanks for the help.
Ben
i was going to look into this as well...i've got a lot of softies, including a leather and some LPS

 

[spanko]

I have not noticed any effect good or bad on my rics, palys, zoas or gorgs. No other "softies" in the tank.

 

[bgrimm]

Good to know. Thanks Henry.

 

[florida joe]

Research a paper by Mrutzek and Kokott (2004)
Basically they state that dosing stimulates soft coral polyps. They feel the coral feeds on the biomass

 

[9supratt4]

Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/3154650
Not really a problem I do it when I get home from work, 6 drops vodka, 2 drops of Brightwell Amino Acid, feed the tank. I have missed days with no consequences. Gone out of town for 4 days on business no dosing. Missed 2 days at a time on short trips etc. Would like to read what you have on missing doses can you remember where you saw it?
I'm still looking for that article I read that says you can't just stop or miss doses. It talked about having to wean the tank off the vodka. Can't remember where I read it as I've read so many articles