Vodka Dosing.
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florida joe
Well-Known Member
taking your word on
it
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Al Mc
http:///forum/post/3099039
Check in for me:
Week three complete: Reef system up to 13ml/day of Vodka. Nitrates have been stable at 14 days with no water change. I will continue to slowly increaase the vodka until the nitrates start to drop or I run out of money for Vodka.
Al what are you nitrate readings IMO 13ml is over the top This stuff takes a while to kick in and then it’s a diesel
http:///forum/post/3099039
Check in for me:
Week three complete: Reef system up to 13ml/day of Vodka. Nitrates have been stable at 14 days with no water change. I will continue to slowly increaase the vodka until the nitrates start to drop or I run out of money for Vodka.
Al what are you nitrate readings IMO 13ml is over the top This stuff takes a while to kick in and then it’s a diesel
al mc
Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3099045
Al what are you nitrate readings IMO 13ml is over the top This stuff takes a while to kick in and then it’s a diesel
They have been 10 for about 2 weeks. Beforfe Vodka dosing they would be '20' by now and I would be doing a 20-25% water change. No observable changes in the tank except water 'looks' clearer and the skimmate is near black versus green/brown before.
http:///forum/post/3099045
Al what are you nitrate readings IMO 13ml is over the top This stuff takes a while to kick in and then it’s a diesel
They have been 10 for about 2 weeks. Beforfe Vodka dosing they would be '20' by now and I would be doing a 20-25% water change. No observable changes in the tank except water 'looks' clearer and the skimmate is near black versus green/brown before.
florida joe
Well-Known Member
skimmate is near black versus green/brown before.
you are on your way
you are on your way
posiden
Active Member
Hey Spanko,
Your tank is looking great. Congrats.
Sorry if this has been covered in your thread but, I was wondering about this method. I believe it is refered to as probiotic???
Anyway, I don't consider myself to be very smart guy. I don't seem to be able to be able to decifer what I read very well. I cant say that I understand the process of carbon dosing but, my take on it is............You are increasing the biodiversity of your tank on a bacterial level thereby decreasing nutrients to the ultra low level. You then skim heavy.....I don't understand the skimming part. What is it that is being skimmed off???
So the way I see the basic mechanics of this is, You dose a carbon source to get the levels down to the utra low level and skim hard to strip the water column of pretty much anything. The corals are now basicly starving so they respond to the enviroment by extending the polyups to try to catch anything they can. Now the coral responds the one way it can and increase it's size to maximize the surface area to capture all the light it can to feed the zooxanthellae algae to feed the coral itself. Which gives us the results we desire which is faster growth better color and great polyup extension.
Am I way off base on this???
Your tank is looking great. Congrats.
Sorry if this has been covered in your thread but, I was wondering about this method. I believe it is refered to as probiotic???
Anyway, I don't consider myself to be very smart guy. I don't seem to be able to be able to decifer what I read very well. I cant say that I understand the process of carbon dosing but, my take on it is............You are increasing the biodiversity of your tank on a bacterial level thereby decreasing nutrients to the ultra low level. You then skim heavy.....I don't understand the skimming part. What is it that is being skimmed off???
So the way I see the basic mechanics of this is, You dose a carbon source to get the levels down to the utra low level and skim hard to strip the water column of pretty much anything. The corals are now basicly starving so they respond to the enviroment by extending the polyups to try to catch anything they can. Now the coral responds the one way it can and increase it's size to maximize the surface area to capture all the light it can to feed the zooxanthellae algae to feed the coral itself. Which gives us the results we desire which is faster growth better color and great polyup extension.
Am I way off base on this???
spanko
Active Member
Hey Posiden, how are you? Here is a brief but fairly complete definition. You are right on in your understanding. The skimmere is acrually skimming, from my understanding, dead and dying anaerobic bacteria that has been working to reduce the nitrates. But here is more.
"The addition of ethanol to the system increases the metabolism of anaerobic (actually most) bacteria so that they will work harder to convert nitrate, etc. into nitrogen gas and misc other intermediates in the nitrogen cycle: feeding them 2-carbon fragments increases the need for more nitrate, much the same way that when we run (as opposed to walking), we use more oxygen to burn the carbon (6-carbon sugars, etc.)we use for energy that our body needs to fuel muscle contraction. This same mechanism or alcohol fueling the bacteria is used in wastewater treatment for sewage, etc., but these septic systems can use methanol (much cheaper single carbon fragments) that would poison our live systems of vertebrates and invertebrates. The net result is a drop in avaiable nitrate, making our systems nitrate-limited rather than phosphate-limited for algal growth, clearing the water of pelagic algal growth and most often reducing overall algal growth in the system. Sounds great until you overdose the tank with EtOH and you get a bacterial bloom and resulting O2 drops... ...and it doesn't take much, we're talking mililiters per dose..."
"The addition of ethanol to the system increases the metabolism of anaerobic (actually most) bacteria so that they will work harder to convert nitrate, etc. into nitrogen gas and misc other intermediates in the nitrogen cycle: feeding them 2-carbon fragments increases the need for more nitrate, much the same way that when we run (as opposed to walking), we use more oxygen to burn the carbon (6-carbon sugars, etc.)we use for energy that our body needs to fuel muscle contraction. This same mechanism or alcohol fueling the bacteria is used in wastewater treatment for sewage, etc., but these septic systems can use methanol (much cheaper single carbon fragments) that would poison our live systems of vertebrates and invertebrates. The net result is a drop in avaiable nitrate, making our systems nitrate-limited rather than phosphate-limited for algal growth, clearing the water of pelagic algal growth and most often reducing overall algal growth in the system. Sounds great until you overdose the tank with EtOH and you get a bacterial bloom and resulting O2 drops... ...and it doesn't take much, we're talking mililiters per dose..."
posiden
Active Member
I am pretty good. How have you been??
Yea I know about the overdose side of this method. I also have a 29 bio cube. I did dose it with vodka for a little while till the bacteria bloom. I had white stuff on everything. Oops
. So I have not dosed since then. I am not sure if you remember or not but I spoke with you in the scrubber thread and that is the method I have chosen. Now I can't dose vodka since I don't run a skimmer and I never really have. I ran the Bio cube skimmer for a bit and it was so so. I sometimes think I am in the wrong hobbie for my check book if you get my drift.
However I do love the sicence of it just like brewing beer.(my other passion) Now for some other questions if you would.
Do you think there is any imposed risk of a tank change with this method? What I mean is, do you think there would be any adverse affects of changing the tank on these corals? I would think to some extent that once you start this type of regimen then you are commited for the long haul. A change that dramitic could play he!! on the inhabitants. That is unless you were to recreate the same enviroment before the move. What are your thoughts on this?
How do you feel about his? It would seem that we have tried to recreate the ocean enveriorment to give us success and to give the inhabitants the best home we could. Now it almost seems that we are doing what we humans do best and, that is to make things do what we want them too. Corals don't have this intense coloring in the wild. Nor do they have to endure as much lighting as we subject them to.
Yea I know about the overdose side of this method. I also have a 29 bio cube. I did dose it with vodka for a little while till the bacteria bloom. I had white stuff on everything. Oops
Do you think there is any imposed risk of a tank change with this method? What I mean is, do you think there would be any adverse affects of changing the tank on these corals? I would think to some extent that once you start this type of regimen then you are commited for the long haul. A change that dramitic could play he!! on the inhabitants. That is unless you were to recreate the same enviroment before the move. What are your thoughts on this?
How do you feel about his? It would seem that we have tried to recreate the ocean enveriorment to give us success and to give the inhabitants the best home we could. Now it almost seems that we are doing what we humans do best and, that is to make things do what we want them too. Corals don't have this intense coloring in the wild. Nor do they have to endure as much lighting as we subject them to.
al mc
Active Member
Five weeks into vodka dosing:
1. reef tank: up to 15ml/day; nitrates at 10 and stable now for some time
even though I am feeding the corals more often. NO change
in growth of macroalgae in sump/refugium; more skimate
though
2. FOWLR: 95 gallon with 20G sump/refugium; This tank has a couple puffers...real slobs when they eat; nitrates here stable at 40 for 3 weeks (usually I would have to change 20-30% of the water weekly to keep them at that level)....macroalgae in refugium diminished and skimmate very heavy.
I will slow my increases in vodka down to 0.5ml each week until I see a drop in the nitrates or rapid elimination of microalgae.
1. reef tank: up to 15ml/day; nitrates at 10 and stable now for some time
even though I am feeding the corals more often. NO change
in growth of macroalgae in sump/refugium; more skimate
though
2. FOWLR: 95 gallon with 20G sump/refugium; This tank has a couple puffers...real slobs when they eat; nitrates here stable at 40 for 3 weeks (usually I would have to change 20-30% of the water weekly to keep them at that level)....macroalgae in refugium diminished and skimmate very heavy.
I will slow my increases in vodka down to 0.5ml each week until I see a drop in the nitrates or rapid elimination of microalgae.
spanko
Active Member
Posiden
Ah a beer maker eh. I am a wine maker myself. Do close to the limit of 200 gallons a year.
I do believe there is a probably risk associated with stopping the dosing regimen. I believe you could do it gradually, but the things that you were trying to achieve would slowly revert back to some other state. How intense a change would I guess be linked to how quilckly or slowly you reduced the dosing. Joe and I have talked about being a slave to dosing in some earlier posts and I don't know about slave, it's really no trouble to get into the dosing habit, but yes you need to continue it to continure to get the results.
About humans and making things what we want them to be well yeah I suppose so. I like the intense color and do think it is a result of our "interfernece" in the natural order of things. Maybe we are more a part of the evolutionary process in this case, IDK.
Al, it would seem like we would require some pics now..
On another note, you know how when you go down to beach and there are some rocks that are sometimes in sometimes out of the water and have what appears to be hair algae growing on them. This from the water and waves washing over them and give the algae a good nutrient and sunlight environment to grow in along with the light of the day? Well I have a 29 biocube and always noticed that the false wall that the water falls over into the next chamber had this type of algae growing along it's top edge. I would harvest it our once in a while and it would grow back. Same idea as the alge scrubber thing me thinks. Well it is now gone, I me gone and the top of the wall is completely clean. This just another note that I am achievng that ULN system as the chaeto in the fuge died, the caulerpa in the display is gone, and now this that was the final area of any alge is gone. Just thought I would document that here. Will get some new pics up soon.
Ah a beer maker eh. I am a wine maker myself. Do close to the limit of 200 gallons a year.
I do believe there is a probably risk associated with stopping the dosing regimen. I believe you could do it gradually, but the things that you were trying to achieve would slowly revert back to some other state. How intense a change would I guess be linked to how quilckly or slowly you reduced the dosing. Joe and I have talked about being a slave to dosing in some earlier posts and I don't know about slave, it's really no trouble to get into the dosing habit, but yes you need to continue it to continure to get the results.
About humans and making things what we want them to be well yeah I suppose so. I like the intense color and do think it is a result of our "interfernece" in the natural order of things. Maybe we are more a part of the evolutionary process in this case, IDK.
Al, it would seem like we would require some pics now..
On another note, you know how when you go down to beach and there are some rocks that are sometimes in sometimes out of the water and have what appears to be hair algae growing on them. This from the water and waves washing over them and give the algae a good nutrient and sunlight environment to grow in along with the light of the day? Well I have a 29 biocube and always noticed that the false wall that the water falls over into the next chamber had this type of algae growing along it's top edge. I would harvest it our once in a while and it would grow back. Same idea as the alge scrubber thing me thinks. Well it is now gone, I me gone and the top of the wall is completely clean. This just another note that I am achievng that ULN system as the chaeto in the fuge died, the caulerpa in the display is gone, and now this that was the final area of any alge is gone. Just thought I would document that here. Will get some new pics up soon.
posiden
Active Member
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/3113288
Posiden
Ah a beer maker eh. I am a wine maker myself. Do close to the limit of 200 gallons a year.
I do believe there is a probably risk associated with stopping the dosing regimen. I believe you could do it gradually, but the things that you were trying to achieve would slowly revert back to some other state. How intense a change would I guess be linked to how quilckly or slowly you reduced the dosing. Joe and I have talked about being a slave to dosing in some earlier posts and I don't know about slave, it's really no trouble to get into the dosing habit, but yes you need to continue it to continure to get the results.
About humans and making things what we want them to be well yeah I suppose so. I like the intense color and do think it is a result of our "interfernece" in the natural order of things. Maybe we are more a part of the evolutionary process in this case, IDK.
Hey spanko,
I never have developed a pallet for wine. There are a couple that I drink when the occasion arrises tho. A buddy is a wine maker. I tried to get him into brewing beer and he did the resarch and the next thing I know is he is making wine. He gave me a plum wine, it was pretty good.
I too enjoy the intense colors and the added bonus of no bothersome algae. From what I understand, corals don't have this much color in the wild. I think the Smithsonian is a good example.(In terms of tanks)I was just in refrence to what I fear the hobbie becoming another mutated strain of who knows what cause, us humans can't leave well enough alone. I am not knocking you friend, just discussing a topic.
Here is where I sound smart.(at least I think so) I must warn you, the only reason I can spout this off is cause it is newly acuired info. I have been reading things I don't understand for the last 3 1/2 hours. I feel like my brain is turning into a black tar and is going to ooz out of my ears.
I do understand that the carbon dosing develops bacterial blooms. Among them would be bacterioplankton which is a food source for mutiple things.(good and bad) They are most certainly in the wild but.......The fact that we MUST run a skimmer while employing this method would seem to suggest that we are going too far in overdriving the bacteria. When these little guys are in the wild they get thier nutrient for the tidal shifts.(from what I am able to gather) That would be the limiting factor to thier population in the wild. I can see where people would think that a skimmer would recreate the action of the waves, but I don't. For one just the shear size of the ocean verses the costal shore line to allow things to froth up for removal. Second is nobody removes this gunk from the shores. It just sits and slowly redisovles back into the water. If it doesn't then it sits on the sand dries out and waits for the next incoming tide to go right back in. I gess that is where the diversity of life comes in. Then you have tempiture differences at different depths creating different currents like the air we breath does. Even though the water is the same salinity the temp differences causes density changes and that allows the water to float on itself. Creating bands if you will of water moving at different rates.
I wonder if an aquarist could have success with the occasional shot of carbon(vodka,sugar,vinigar) while still employing algae in the system. Thereby creating a more....dare I say "Natural" ecosystem.
I am looking forward to those pics. Your tank is more apealing to look at then mine right now.
http:///forum/post/3113288
Posiden
Ah a beer maker eh. I am a wine maker myself. Do close to the limit of 200 gallons a year.
I do believe there is a probably risk associated with stopping the dosing regimen. I believe you could do it gradually, but the things that you were trying to achieve would slowly revert back to some other state. How intense a change would I guess be linked to how quilckly or slowly you reduced the dosing. Joe and I have talked about being a slave to dosing in some earlier posts and I don't know about slave, it's really no trouble to get into the dosing habit, but yes you need to continue it to continure to get the results.
About humans and making things what we want them to be well yeah I suppose so. I like the intense color and do think it is a result of our "interfernece" in the natural order of things. Maybe we are more a part of the evolutionary process in this case, IDK.
Hey spanko,
I never have developed a pallet for wine. There are a couple that I drink when the occasion arrises tho. A buddy is a wine maker. I tried to get him into brewing beer and he did the resarch and the next thing I know is he is making wine. He gave me a plum wine, it was pretty good.
I too enjoy the intense colors and the added bonus of no bothersome algae. From what I understand, corals don't have this much color in the wild. I think the Smithsonian is a good example.(In terms of tanks)I was just in refrence to what I fear the hobbie becoming another mutated strain of who knows what cause, us humans can't leave well enough alone. I am not knocking you friend, just discussing a topic.
Here is where I sound smart.(at least I think so) I must warn you, the only reason I can spout this off is cause it is newly acuired info. I have been reading things I don't understand for the last 3 1/2 hours. I feel like my brain is turning into a black tar and is going to ooz out of my ears.
I do understand that the carbon dosing develops bacterial blooms. Among them would be bacterioplankton which is a food source for mutiple things.(good and bad) They are most certainly in the wild but.......The fact that we MUST run a skimmer while employing this method would seem to suggest that we are going too far in overdriving the bacteria. When these little guys are in the wild they get thier nutrient for the tidal shifts.(from what I am able to gather) That would be the limiting factor to thier population in the wild. I can see where people would think that a skimmer would recreate the action of the waves, but I don't. For one just the shear size of the ocean verses the costal shore line to allow things to froth up for removal. Second is nobody removes this gunk from the shores. It just sits and slowly redisovles back into the water. If it doesn't then it sits on the sand dries out and waits for the next incoming tide to go right back in. I gess that is where the diversity of life comes in. Then you have tempiture differences at different depths creating different currents like the air we breath does. Even though the water is the same salinity the temp differences causes density changes and that allows the water to float on itself. Creating bands if you will of water moving at different rates.
I wonder if an aquarist could have success with the occasional shot of carbon(vodka,sugar,vinigar) while still employing algae in the system. Thereby creating a more....dare I say "Natural" ecosystem.
I am looking forward to those pics. Your tank is more apealing to look at then mine right now.
florida joe
Well-Known Member
You could consider waiting a while also before you remove any algae the released nitrates could fuel an expansion in the bio mass-produced by the dosing
spanko
Active Member
Took a look here;
http://aquaripure.com/
Seems like I and others are getting the same results in the claims here without this product. I, at this point in my exeriment, would not spend the money on this product. There are many other reasons to do water changes than just to reduce nitrates that they do not address in their cost analysis. IDK seems like money could be better utilized that to go with this product. You can do the carbon dosing that they say needs to be done with this product.............well.........without this product!
JMO let's see what others have to say.
http://aquaripure.com/
Seems like I and others are getting the same results in the claims here without this product. I, at this point in my exeriment, would not spend the money on this product. There are many other reasons to do water changes than just to reduce nitrates that they do not address in their cost analysis. IDK seems like money could be better utilized that to go with this product. You can do the carbon dosing that they say needs to be done with this product.............well.........without this product!
JMO let's see what others have to say.
