Vodka Dosing.
- Thread starter spanko
- Start date
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Have you been able to find enough information to alert you of all of the possible risks and are you willing to take them?
My dear friend where have I heard that before Sound advice to say the least.
Al do you have any Caulerpa in your refug ?
Henry please forgive my highjacking but we both know full well the pros and cons involved
My dear friend where have I heard that before Sound advice to say the least.
Al do you have any Caulerpa in your refug ?
Henry please forgive my highjacking but we both know full well the pros and cons involved
N
nihoa
Guest
man, chuck your sponges out of your canister. if you have lots of liverock you have all the filter you need and those sponges are nitrate traps. i hauled all my canister media out and filled it with liverock rubble which makes a bit of a fuge. i get the extra flow from the canister and a place to store some extra rock with good water movement through it.
thats my opinion, maybe there would be others here that see canister filters as something worthwhile.
Originally Posted by Jayson417
http:///forum/post/3065979
i clean out my canister once a week and my wet/dry once every 2 weeks.
thats my opinion, maybe there would be others here that see canister filters as something worthwhile.
Originally Posted by Jayson417
http:///forum/post/3065979
i clean out my canister once a week and my wet/dry once every 2 weeks.
al mc
Active Member
Henry and Joe.....I have hopefully done my research on the vodka dosing. I have two large 'reefs' each with refugiums and RDSBs. I have a FOWLR system as well. I am trying the vodka dosing on the FOWLR and one of the reefs. Both are in my home and I can monitor them closely. Both are 'overskimmed' and have good surface to air contact. From what I have read the biggest problems are decrease in oxygen levels, the loss of one type of dentrifying bacteria as another develops and cloudiness/sludging in dead water circulation areas.
As with many things in this hobby there is great debate about vodka dosing.
RK article and melev seem to on the 'positive' side and Borneman on the 'negative' side.
I would be happy to hear your or other swf.com board members thoughts, positive and negative, on this question.
Thanks Al
As with many things in this hobby there is great debate about vodka dosing.
RK article and melev seem to on the 'positive' side and Borneman on the 'negative' side.
I would be happy to hear your or other swf.com board members thoughts, positive and negative, on this question.
Thanks Al
al mc
Active Member
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/3073896
Sounds like you have done some research. Have you been able to find enough information to alert you of all of the possible risks and are you willing to take them?
Do I know all the risks..probably not...but does anyone in this hobby know all the risks or possible gains? At one point we just have to try to expand our personal knowledge by trial and error.
http:///forum/post/3073896
Sounds like you have done some research. Have you been able to find enough information to alert you of all of the possible risks and are you willing to take them?
Do I know all the risks..probably not...but does anyone in this hobby know all the risks or possible gains? At one point we just have to try to expand our personal knowledge by trial and error.
spanko
Active Member
Originally Posted by Al Mc
At one point we just have to try to expand our personal knowledge by trial and error.
HA! If you go back to my original posts in this thread those were my thoughts too. Good luck with your experiment and please feel free to use this thread as your tracking mechanism also if you wish to. I think it would be good to get as much data in here as we could to allow people a targeted source on SWF for vodka dosing.
At one point we just have to try to expand our personal knowledge by trial and error.
HA! If you go back to my original posts in this thread those were my thoughts too. Good luck with your experiment and please feel free to use this thread as your tracking mechanism also if you wish to. I think it would be good to get as much data in here as we could to allow people a targeted source on SWF for vodka dosing.
al mc
Active Member
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/3074167
HA! If you go back to my original posts in this thread those were my thoughts too. Good luck with your experiment and please feel free to use this thread as your tracking mechanism also if you wish to. I think it would be good to get as much data in here as we could to allow people a targeted source on SWF for vodka dosing.
Sorry that I hijacked the thread Henry. But I will post from time to time with observations. Just on day 3 now so not much observable difference in tank,skimmer or nitrates (20)/ phosphates (0).
One concern with the experiment is that I may skew the results with a water change during the forst few days/weeks. Since I have a deep sand bed it may take weeks/months to see the results and I won't allow the nitrates to get over 30ish before I change the water in my reef. The FOWLR is a 'puffer'
tank so the trates can run up pretty high before I will get worried.
http:///forum/post/3074167
HA! If you go back to my original posts in this thread those were my thoughts too. Good luck with your experiment and please feel free to use this thread as your tracking mechanism also if you wish to. I think it would be good to get as much data in here as we could to allow people a targeted source on SWF for vodka dosing.
Sorry that I hijacked the thread Henry. But I will post from time to time with observations. Just on day 3 now so not much observable difference in tank,skimmer or nitrates (20)/ phosphates (0).
One concern with the experiment is that I may skew the results with a water change during the forst few days/weeks. Since I have a deep sand bed it may take weeks/months to see the results and I won't allow the nitrates to get over 30ish before I change the water in my reef. The FOWLR is a 'puffer'
tank so the trates can run up pretty high before I will get worried.
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Al I don’t think you need to worry about water changes affecting your results. At this time. I am sure you have being changing your water regularly and still maintaining a constant reading of nitrates. When you see a rapid decline in nitrates it will be due to the dosing if all other maintenance remains the same.
My own personal observations.
As my nitrates started to diminish I noticed no increases in protein skimmer production. What I did notice was a accumulation of a white viscous material on my prefilters going from my overflow box to my refug.
A short time after my nitrates reached zero there was an accumulation of thick mucus like film floating in my refug. (4inch sand/mud, caulerpa, pods, shrimp, cucumber, snails est.)
After a week or so at zero I had an increase in nitrates to what I estimated to be 2 and they remained at that level with a prophylactic dosing of 2 ml a day. I would remove the layer of mucus like product weekly from my refug.
Note I had some caulerpa die off with the dosing which I attribute to the dosing out competing it for nutrients, that in its self is a testament to how powerful dosing can be. I did not with the die off of caulerpa experience a sexual event associated with it.
I have no explanation for the accumulation of heterotrophic bacteria in my refug that the dosing stimulated and which assimilated nitrogen in their living biomass. But it was constantly in that area where it was harvested
My own personal observations.
As my nitrates started to diminish I noticed no increases in protein skimmer production. What I did notice was a accumulation of a white viscous material on my prefilters going from my overflow box to my refug.
A short time after my nitrates reached zero there was an accumulation of thick mucus like film floating in my refug. (4inch sand/mud, caulerpa, pods, shrimp, cucumber, snails est.)
After a week or so at zero I had an increase in nitrates to what I estimated to be 2 and they remained at that level with a prophylactic dosing of 2 ml a day. I would remove the layer of mucus like product weekly from my refug.
Note I had some caulerpa die off with the dosing which I attribute to the dosing out competing it for nutrients, that in its self is a testament to how powerful dosing can be. I did not with the die off of caulerpa experience a sexual event associated with it.
I have no explanation for the accumulation of heterotrophic bacteria in my refug that the dosing stimulated and which assimilated nitrogen in their living biomass. But it was constantly in that area where it was harvested
al mc
Active Member
End of week #!
Observations:
Reef: Started with 'trates' 20 and phosphate '0'.....current dose of vodka (80proof) is 2.0ml/day. Trates this am still 20, phosphates 0.
FOWLR: Started with trates of 40 and phosphate 0. Same readings today.
(I would usually is a rise, so that may be an improvement)
No sign of stress for fish (both)/inverts (reef). Only observable change is skimmate was dark green color before vodka is now brown.
Starting 2.5ml vodka reef/2.0 vodka FOWLR divided in two doses for this week
Observations:
Reef: Started with 'trates' 20 and phosphate '0'.....current dose of vodka (80proof) is 2.0ml/day. Trates this am still 20, phosphates 0.
FOWLR: Started with trates of 40 and phosphate 0. Same readings today.
(I would usually is a rise, so that may be an improvement)
No sign of stress for fish (both)/inverts (reef). Only observable change is skimmate was dark green color before vodka is now brown.
Starting 2.5ml vodka reef/2.0 vodka FOWLR divided in two doses for this week
spanko
Active Member
Keep an eye out for a bacteria bloom here. This is an indication that you have reached your prophylactic dose measurement. If you do experience the bloom you resort back to the dosing volume you used prior and this will be your ongoing dose. For me I never did the increase to bloom, I started with 2 drops in my tank and have not changed over time. I may not be to the maximum dosage therefor not getting the maximum benefit, however I am of the better safe than sorry thought here and will live with the benefit I get. It has been good for me so far. No SPS burning, no bloom, have seen zero on phos and nitrate. Have seen good increase in polyp extension. Not seeing any real color increase yet but am willing to wait here.
al mc
Active Member
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/3077706
Keep an eye out for a bacteria bloom here. This is an indication that you have reached your prophylactic dose measurement. If you do experience the bloom you resort back to the dosing volume you used prior and this will be your ongoing dose. For me I never did the increase to bloom, I started with 2 drops in my tank and have not changed over time. I may not be to the maximum dosage therefor not getting the maximum benefit, however I am of the better safe than sorry thought here and will live with the benefit I get. It has been good for me so far. No SPS burning, no bloom, have seen zero on phos and nitrate. Have seen good increase in polyp extension. Not seeing any real color increase yet but am willing to wait here.
Thanks for the info and your input!
http:///forum/post/3077706
Keep an eye out for a bacteria bloom here. This is an indication that you have reached your prophylactic dose measurement. If you do experience the bloom you resort back to the dosing volume you used prior and this will be your ongoing dose. For me I never did the increase to bloom, I started with 2 drops in my tank and have not changed over time. I may not be to the maximum dosage therefor not getting the maximum benefit, however I am of the better safe than sorry thought here and will live with the benefit I get. It has been good for me so far. No SPS burning, no bloom, have seen zero on phos and nitrate. Have seen good increase in polyp extension. Not seeing any real color increase yet but am willing to wait here.
Thanks for the info and your input!
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Al IMO you are going to have to increase your dosage. I would go with 5ml. For a month if you do not see a drop in nitrates you may in fact have to go as high as 10 ml. Again IMO I thing when you see some build up on your filters or an abundance of skim mate it is a sign you are cultivating heterotrophic bacteria which are feeding on your nitrates and phosphates
al mc
Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3077907
Al IMO you are going to have to increase your dosage. I would go with 5ml. For a month if you do not see a drop in nitrates you may in fact have to go as high as 10 ml. Again IMO I thing when you see some build up on your filters or an abundance of skim mate it is a sign you are cultivating heterotrophic bacteria which are feeding on your nitrates and phosphates
I would be surprised if after only a week on this amount of dosing I was nearing my steady state. I believe with the aged tanks that I have, the reef even has a remote deep sand bed, that I eventually will be giving 10+mls
daily and that it will take several weeeks to see the nitrates drop.
http:///forum/post/3077907
Al IMO you are going to have to increase your dosage. I would go with 5ml. For a month if you do not see a drop in nitrates you may in fact have to go as high as 10 ml. Again IMO I thing when you see some build up on your filters or an abundance of skim mate it is a sign you are cultivating heterotrophic bacteria which are feeding on your nitrates and phosphates
I would be surprised if after only a week on this amount of dosing I was nearing my steady state. I believe with the aged tanks that I have, the reef even has a remote deep sand bed, that I eventually will be giving 10+mls
daily and that it will take several weeeks to see the nitrates drop.
spanko
Active Member
Definitly agree with you Al. Seeing some real results are going to take upwards of 1.5 months IMO. If you are following the reef central articles spread sheet just stay the course. Joe is probably correct in the amounts that you will eventually need, but time is on your side. Nothing needs to be accomplishe quickly here. Your level of how comfortable you are with this needs to be your driver.
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Al Mc
http:///forum/post/3078083
I would be surprised if after only a week on this amount of dosing I was nearing my steady state. I believe with the aged tanks that I have, the reef even has a remote deep sand bed, that I eventually will be giving 10+mls
daily and that it will take several weeeks to see the nitrates drop.
Exactly Al dosing takes a while to get going. Once it does it is a nitrate and phosphates eating machine. I personally would up your dosage
http:///forum/post/3078083
I would be surprised if after only a week on this amount of dosing I was nearing my steady state. I believe with the aged tanks that I have, the reef even has a remote deep sand bed, that I eventually will be giving 10+mls
daily and that it will take several weeeks to see the nitrates drop.
Exactly Al dosing takes a while to get going. Once it does it is a nitrate and phosphates eating machine. I personally would up your dosage
al mc
Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3078189
Exactly Al dosing takes a while to get going. Once it does it is a nitrate and phosphates eating machine. I personally would up your dosage
Henry/Joe....I am following the RK schedule. So, at this point I am going up 0.5ml/day each week. If I were to increase the dose faster/further then what would the dose be and what problems would I look for?...Thanks
Reef: total water volume..about 250g (curent dose is 2.5ml vodka total/day)
FOWLR: total volume..about 100g (current dose 2.0ml/day)
I have been more aggressive with the FOWLR tank as it is inhabitated by two puffers...
Al
http:///forum/post/3078189
Exactly Al dosing takes a while to get going. Once it does it is a nitrate and phosphates eating machine. I personally would up your dosage
Henry/Joe....I am following the RK schedule. So, at this point I am going up 0.5ml/day each week. If I were to increase the dose faster/further then what would the dose be and what problems would I look for?...Thanks
Reef: total water volume..about 250g (curent dose is 2.5ml vodka total/day)
FOWLR: total volume..about 100g (current dose 2.0ml/day)
I have been more aggressive with the FOWLR tank as it is inhabitated by two puffers...
Al
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Al Mc
http:///forum/post/3078502
Henry/Joe....I am following the RK schedule. So, at this point I am going up 0.5ml/day each week. If I were to increase the dose faster/further then what would the dose be and what problems would I look for?...Thanks
Reef: total water volume..about 250g (curent dose is 2.5ml vodka total/day)
FOWLR: total volume..about 100g (current dose 2.0ml/day)
I have been more aggressive with the FOWLR tank as it is inhabitated by two puffers...
Al
Al
Mrutzek and Kokott wrote a report in 2004 establishing the formula I used for dosage rate. The rate given was between 5 and 10 Ml per day per 1000L (260 gallons) of aquarium water. Cloudiness was sighed when overdosing weather it was algae bloom or not was never established.
http:///forum/post/3078502
Henry/Joe....I am following the RK schedule. So, at this point I am going up 0.5ml/day each week. If I were to increase the dose faster/further then what would the dose be and what problems would I look for?...Thanks
Reef: total water volume..about 250g (curent dose is 2.5ml vodka total/day)
FOWLR: total volume..about 100g (current dose 2.0ml/day)
I have been more aggressive with the FOWLR tank as it is inhabitated by two puffers...
Al
Al
Mrutzek and Kokott wrote a report in 2004 establishing the formula I used for dosage rate. The rate given was between 5 and 10 Ml per day per 1000L (260 gallons) of aquarium water. Cloudiness was sighed when overdosing weather it was algae bloom or not was never established.
spanko
Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3078508
Al
Mrutzek and Kokott wrote a report in 2004 establishing the formula I used for dosage rate. The rate given was between 5 and 10 Ml per day per 1000L (260 gallons) of aquarium water. Cloudiness was sighed when overdosing weather it was algae bloom or not was never established.
Joe, did you mean algae bloom here or bacteria bloom?
http:///forum/post/3078508
Al
Mrutzek and Kokott wrote a report in 2004 establishing the formula I used for dosage rate. The rate given was between 5 and 10 Ml per day per 1000L (260 gallons) of aquarium water. Cloudiness was sighed when overdosing weather it was algae bloom or not was never established.
Joe, did you mean algae bloom here or bacteria bloom?