What exactly is God's plan?

[theclemsonkid]

I think it would be very interesting to have a group of people raised completely outside the realm of religion, and see if there are basic morals instilled in humans naturally. Like, if you put 50 men and 50 women on an island, do you think they would do good for each other because it's genetically instilled in them? Or do you think that the survival of the fittest would kick in and you would just have a bunch of people maiming each other until there was no one left?
I like to feel like even without religion, parts of me would still feel the need to help, nurture, take care of, and assist other people. But that's also because of how I have been raised socially. I think a real life "Truman Show" would yield very, very interesting results...

 

[mantisman51]

That is the myopic view that I reject-"well if God isn't fair to everyone then He's not a real God". We are ordered, as believers, to go out into the world and share the Gospel. Now, what God does with those who hear the Gospel or don't isn't my concern. I have heard and I have to answer for what I do. The Bible says that we will give an account of ourselves-not anyone else. But, as far as people not going to hell if they haven't heard the Gospel, why send missionaries? If they hear and reject the Gospel then they are going to hell for sure, whereas, if we don't tell them they are guaranteed not to go to hell. Why go and force them to have to make that choice once they've heard when if we leave them alone they got a golden "ignorance ticket"? And this is why I trust what God has said and do what I can, when I can.

 

[darthtang aw]

Pretty arrogant little statement there.  I know individual's who are devout Christians, but are dumber than a light post intellectually.  I'm a very successful businessman, college graduate, have a loving family, well respected in the community, and have religious friends who could care less if I believe in a God or not.  I'm haven't practiced a religion since I was 13.  So to say that makes me "weaker mentally" is flawed logic, and laughable at best.
I've never told them anything.  They have their own free will to determine whether or not to believe in some Supreme Being themselves.  They've attended a variety of church services and organization with their friends.  They've been to Lutheran, Methodist, and Catholic services and events.  I don't hinder or discourage them one way or another.  They don't ask us about why we don't attend a church or why we don't go to church on Sunday's.  It's apparently not important to them.
What is any more arrogant than some of your past comments. case in point Romney and the belief God lives near Kolob?
You completely missed my point and in the statement managed to prove my point. Those with religious beliefs are constantly challenged to maintain those beliefs. You were in the belief structure till age 13...and then questioned your belief, eventually moving away from the belief. This was the "easier" road. Thus required less "strength".
Athiests are hardly ever challenged to prove there isn't a god......Because that would be an easier to road to transverse.

 

[darthtang aw]

I think it would be very interesting to have a group of people raised completely outside the realm of religion, and see if there are basic morals instilled in humans naturally.  Like, if you put 50 men and 50 women on an island, do you think they would do good for each other because it's genetically instilled in them?  Or do you think that the survival of the fittest would kick in and you would just have a bunch of people maiming each other until there was no one left? 
I like to feel like even without religion, parts of me would still feel the need to help, nurture, take care of, and assist other people.  But that's also because of how I have been raised socially.  I think a real life "Truman Show" would yield very, very interesting results...
 
Actually, I think there is a passage in the bible referencing this very aspect. Paraphrasing, one does not have to follow all the tenants, just know of and believe in God to enter. History has proven the viewing of the world around you alone can bring about the belief in God.

 

[farsight32]

"What exactly is God's plan?"
I think this question is the simplest, yet most complex thing you could ever ask. You are either asking a believer (in any higher power) to attempt to explain the goals of a Creator that is beyond their understanding, or asking a non-believer to attempt to guess what was the end goal of a being they don't even believe in. Either way, I think it is inherently impossible to come to the correct conclusion.
But, it wouldn't be any fun if we didn't try.

I am a believer. I personally believe that God originally created a paradise where he could live in an intimate relationship with his creations, but that we fell from that place through our own inherent desires. So, like most Christians, I believe the book of Genesis. Where I differ is my perception of the current state of affairs. So many people want to look at all of the world and see it as punishment for our sins. People want to look at all of the horror and sorrow and blame it on an unfair vengeful God.
I differ in that I do not believe we live in a broken world to pay for our sins. I think this place is not a curse, but an opportunity. God could have destroyed this place and hit the reset button, but He didn't. Now we live in a world of equity. Bad things don't only happen to non-believers, they happen to everyone. Some good people suffer through more than they deserve, and some bad people never reap what they sow. There is parity, everyone is on equal footing.
Regardless of what you believe, you wake up everyday with a chance to go into this messed up little world and make it a better place. You have the chance to show compassion, kindness, and love to people who don't deserve it. To help people who can't help themselves, and be there for the people who need you. I think people get way too caught up in whether you believe in a higher power, or what you call Him/Her.
I think the reason we are here is like the motto we learned in boy scouts every time we went camping.
When you leave this place, it should be a better place than when you arrived.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393378/what-exactly-is-gods-plan#post_3499265
So if I use your logic of why people suffer, then I suppose the millions of people who were devastated by Hurricane Sandy must've quit believing in God all at once? Every person from South Carolina to Maine had a massive "sit-in" and vowed not to believe in God? S&it happens. We have no control over catastrophic events in our lives. So if I quit believing in God, then some drunk driver plows into my car and maims me, am I to assume that occurred because God wanted to prove his existence? Did he push the drunk driver's car into my path? Maybe Hurricane Sandy is an omen of things to come. Maybe the Mayans were right all along. 51 days and counting to the Eternal Wrath Of God occurs!
What logic? Disaster was left out on purpose to make my post a little shorter, since I am a bit long winded so to speak on the subject...LOL, I was trying not to bore everyone.
I never mentioned natural disasters in my synopsis....but since you bring it up... Personally I believe that God set everything in motion from day one. The Earth will go through it's transitions..the wind blows, the tides rise and fall, the comets have their destination just as the sun and the moon were set on course. So if people are building their houses in the flood zone...in the hurricanes path...along the tornado alley, or on the volcano's island when it erupts...God was not mad at them, they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. I do believe there are some people that God has warned, so they can escape.
I believe he gave the scientists the know how brains to be able figure things out and to predict the earths movement and give a warning to people. Sometimes HaShem sends an Angel to protect someone he favors, for example when your car breaks down or won't start...had you of been on time you would have been in the thick of the accident kind of thing. Ah, but people knock on wood and thank the gods of fate and luck instead. There have been times recorded when the Angel's intervention was obvious, such as when the pillar of fire came between the nation of Israel and Pharaoh's army when he came after them in a rage. The 2 Angels that came and led Lot to safety when Amorrah (proper Hebrew for Gomorrah) was destroyed...
God didn't just create and let it ride...Sometimes he does intervene, and since we never know the mind of God...it never hurts to ask for favor. He can get snippy, it's recorded in the books that he was so disgusted with the idol worshipers, he told the people to go cry out to the idol for help since they favored serving false gods more than Him. God is not the Genie of the Bible who comes at your command to do your will and take care of your wants. I come across so many who say..."I prayed and nothing happened, so I don't believe in him!" Like that is his punishment for not jumping when you wanted him to. I'm certain that if you only come to him when you want something, you can expect to be as ignored as he was when you were satisfied and nothing was wrong in your life. The time to make nice is when all is well, and your only motivation is getting to know him. There are plenty of people I know that are certain God sent his Angel to help them in the time of need, but they were believers before the problem arose.
Oh and by the way...they have found another calendar of the Mayans that goes beyond 2012. LOL...

 

[bang guy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/393378/what-exactly-is-gods-plan/20#post_3499297
I think it would be very interesting to have a group of people raised completely outside the realm of religion, and see if there are basic morals instilled in humans naturally. Like, if you put 50 men and 50 women on an island, do you think they would do good for each other because it's genetically instilled in them? Or do you think that the survival of the fittest would kick in and you would just have a bunch of people maiming each other until there was no one left?
I like to feel like even without religion, parts of me would still feel the need to help, nurture, take care of, and assist other people. But that's also because of how I have been raised socially. I think a real life "Truman Show" would yield very, very interesting results...
Read about the indigenous people of Borneo. They are still there, they are removed from all society other than their own.

 

[beth]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/393378/what-exactly-is-gods-plan/20#post_3499299
That is the myopic view that I reject-"well if God isn't fair to everyone then He's not a real God". We are ordered, as believers, to go out into the world and share the Gospel. Now, what God does with those who hear the Gospel or don't isn't my concern. I have heard and I have to answer for what I do. The Bible says that we will give an account of ourselves-not anyone else. But, as far as people not going to hell if they haven't heard the Gospel, why send missionaries? If they hear and reject the Gospel then they are going to hell for sure, whereas, if we don't tell them they are guaranteed not to go to hell. Why go and force them to have to make that choice once they've heard when if we leave them alone they got a golden "ignorance ticket"? And this is why I trust what God has said and do what I can, when I can.
Ah, but does the Gospel make allowances with the "ignorance ticket"? No, it doesn't. Reference John 3:5.

 

[mantisman51]

That's my point. If ignorance was justification(in the Biblical sense), then we are doing more harm than good sending missionaries to spread the Gospel, which makes no sense.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/393378/what-exactly-is-gods-plan/20#post_3499303
What is any more arrogant than some of your past comments. case in point Romney and the belief God lives near Kolob?
You completely missed my point and in the statement managed to prove my point. Those with religious beliefs are constantly challenged to maintain those beliefs. You were in the belief structure till age 13...and then questioned your belief, eventually moving away from the belief. This was the "easier" road. Thus required less "strength".
Athiests are hardly ever challenged to prove there isn't a god......Because that would be an easier to road to transverse.
Uh, that's what Mormon's believe. Romney is a Mormon. A+B=C.
How are they "constantly challenged"? Challenged doing what? Ever been to a Catholic service? Sit, kneel, stand,sit, kneel, stand, sit... With the exception of the Reading of The Gospel, and the priest's little 5-10 minute "sermon", the rest of the service is EXACTLY the same week after week. People memorize the "lines" and say them in their sleep. Pretty comical once you see it in action a few times...
I'm Agnostict, not Atheist. Not the same...

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/393378/what-exactly-is-gods-plan/20#post_3499313
What logic? Disaster was left out on purpose to make my post a little shorter, since I am a bit long winded so to speak on the subject...LOL, I was trying not to bore everyone.
I never mentioned natural disasters in my synopsis....but since you bring it up... Personally I believe that God set everything in motion from day one. The Earth will go through it's transitions..the wind blows, the tides rise and fall, the comets have their destination just as the sun and the moon were set on course. So if people are building their houses in the flood zone...in the hurricanes path...along the tornado alley, or on the volcano's island when it erupts...God was not mad at them, they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. I do believe there are some people that God has warned, so they can escape.
I believe he gave the scientists the know how brains to be able figure things out and to predict the earths movement and give a warning to people. Sometimes HaShem sends an Angel to protect someone he favors, for example when your car breaks down or won't start...had you of been on time you would have been in the thick of the accident kind of thing. Ah, but people knock on wood and thank the gods of fate and luck instead. There have been times recorded when the Angel's intervention was obvious, such as when the pillar of fire came between the nation of Israel and Pharaoh's army when he came after them in a rage. The 2 Angels that came and led Lot to safety when Amorrah (proper Hebrew for Gomorrah) was destroyed...
God didn't just create and let it ride...Sometimes he does intervene, and since we never know the mind of God...it never hurts to ask for favor. He can get snippy, it's recorded in the books that he was so disgusted with the idol worshipers, he told the people to go cry out to the idol for help since they favored serving false gods more than Him. God is not the Genie of the Bible who comes at your command to do your will and take care of your wants. I come across so many who say..."I prayed and nothing happened, so I don't believe in him!" Like that is his punishment for not jumping when you wanted him to. I'm certain that if you only come to him when you want something, you can expect to be as ignored as he was when you were satisfied and nothing was wrong in your life. The time to make nice is when all is well, and your only motivation is getting to know him. There are plenty of people I know that are certain God sent his Angel to help them in the time of need, but they were believers before the problem arose.
Oh and by the way...they have found another calendar of the Mayans that goes beyond 2012. LOL...
Do you actually believe this stuff you're saying?

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/393378/what-exactly-is-gods-plan/20#post_3499297
I think it would be very interesting to have a group of people raised completely outside the realm of religion, and see if there are basic morals instilled in humans naturally. Like, if you put 50 men and 50 women on an island, do you think they would do good for each other because it's genetically instilled in them? Or do you think that the survival of the fittest would kick in and you would just have a bunch of people maiming each other until there was no one left?
I like to feel like even without religion, parts of me would still feel the need to help, nurture, take care of, and assist other people. But that's also because of how I have been raised socially. I think a real life "Truman Show" would yield very, very interesting results...
People get along because we are social creatures., we depend on each other to survive. Even without being taught a religion, I do think people will ponder and come up with some sort of culture surrounding a god of some sort, it is part of the hard wire of the human race. Religion had been around since ancient times in every culture on Earth. The American Indians believed in the great spirits of the lake, trees and animals all around them.
Bionicarm: You bet your bottom dollar I believe every single word I wrote...I wouldn't lie to you. That doesn't mean I can't grow and learn, I don't have a closed mind....I am far, far. far from knowing it all...but I have experienced too much to not believe that God is there.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/393378/what-exactly-is-gods-plan/20#post_3499354
People get along because we are social creatures., we depend on each other to survive. Even without being taught a religion, I do think people will ponder and come up with some sort of culture surrounding a god of some sort, it is part of the hard wire of the human race. Religion had been around since ancient times in every culture on Earth. The American Indians believed in the great spirits of the lake, trees and animals all around them.
Bionicarm: You bet your bottom dollar I believe every single word I wrote...I wouldn't lie to you. That doesn't mean I can't grow and learn, I don't have a closed mind....I am far, far. far from knowing it all...but I have experienced too much to not believe that God is there.
Believing in God is one thing. Actually believing there's these "guardian angels" that swoop down from the heaven's anytime anyone needs a helping hand? Someone's been watching too many movies....

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393378/what-exactly-is-gods-plan/20#post_3499375
Believing in God is one thing. Actually believing there's these "guardian angels" that swoop down from the heaven's anytime anyone needs a helping hand?
What, you don't believe it spirits? But you'd consider believing in god?

What is this madness and why do these types of threads keep coming up with the Apocalypse looming on the horizon?

 

[beth]

If you study anthropology at all you know that humans have had a belief system since pre-historic times. Is it because they were just superstitious? Or hard-wired with a belief system?
Bionic, I was an atheist once upon a time. I was around 13 too when I started to disbelieve. I went to college and studied history and humanities. All those studies convinced me all the more there was no God; man I had all the intellectual backup too to argue for hours why God was hocus-pocus medievalism. I just loved to get involved, as you do, in arguments about religion and how nutty believing in God is.
Well, something pretty bad happened in my life that I just didn't know how to deal with. I didn't ask God for help, I was a non-believer. Instead he told me I needed help and he was going to help me. He did--very quickly too. Everything turned around after that. I guess you can say I was pretty much a Doubting Thomas and needed to be treated as such. The Mountain came to me in this case.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/393378/what-exactly-is-gods-plan/20#post_3499377
If you study anthropology at all you know that humans have had a belief system since pre-historic times. Is it because they were just superstitious? Or hard-wired with a belief system?
Bionic, I was an atheist once upon a time. I was around 13 too when I started to disbelieve. I went to college and studied history and humanities. All those studies convinced me all the more there was no God; man I had all the intellectual backup too to argue for hours why God was hocus-pocus medievalism. I just loved to get involved, as you do, in arguments about religion and how nutty believing in God is.
Well, something pretty bad happened in my life that I just didn't know how to deal with. I didn't ask God for help, I was a non-believer. Instead he told me I needed help and he was going to help me. He did--very quickly too. Everything turned around after that. I guess you can say I was pretty much a Doubting Thomas and needed to be treated as such. The Mountain came to me in this case.
So it took a catastrophic event in your life to be "convinced" and become a "true believer"? How exactly did he "tell you you needed help, and he was going to help you"? Was it some bright light event? Was it some mental whisper in your ear? You own personal version of a miracle? We as humans control our own destiny's. You may think it was "God's help". I say it was just karma, positive thinking, and self determination that changed whatever problems you were having in life at the time. So if this "bad event" were to never have happened in your life, would you still be an Atheist, or would you have "converted" anyways for whatever reason?

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393378/what-exactly-is-gods-plan/20#post_3499387
So it took a catastrophic event in your life to be "convinced" and become a "true believer"? How exactly did he "tell you you needed help, and he was going to help you"? Was it some bright light event? Was it some mental whisper in your ear? You own personal version of a miracle? We as humans control our own destiny's. You may think it was "God's help". I say it was just karma, positive thinking, and self determination that changed whatever problems you were having in life at the time. So if this "bad event" were to never have happened in your life, would you still be an Atheist, or would you have "converted" anyways for whatever reason?
LOL...Interesting and amusing bionicarm...Karma is part of an eastern religious belief. Personally I think you are just a stubborn cuss, who is hoping with all your might there is no God...you argue more to convince yourself than others of your opinion.
I looked it up just for you:
Many Hindus see God's direct involvement in this process; others consider the natural laws of causation sufficient to explain the effects of karma.[sup][28][sup][29][/sup][30][/sup] Followers of Vedanta consider Ishvara, a personal supreme God, as playing a role in the delivery of karma. Theistic schools of Hinduism such as Vedanta thus disagree with the Buddhist and Jain views and other Hindu views that karma is merely a law of cause and effect but rather is also dependent on the will of a personal supreme God. A summary of this theistic view of karma is expressed by the following: "God does not make one suffer for no reason nor does He make one happy for no reason. God is very fair and gives you exactly what you deserve

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/393378/what-exactly-is-gods-plan/20#post_3499408
LOL...Interesting and amusing bionicarm...Karma is part of an eastern religious belief. Personally I think you are just a stubborn cuss, who is hoping with all your might there is no God...you argue more to convince yourself than others of your opinion.
I looked it up just for you:
Many Hindus see God's direct involvement in this process; others consider the natural laws of causation sufficient to explain the effects of karma.[sup][28][sup][29][/sup][30][/sup] Followers of Vedanta consider Ishvara, a personal supreme God, as playing a role in the delivery of karma. Theistic schools of Hinduism such as Vedanta thus disagree with the Buddhist and Jain views and other Hindu views that karma is merely a law of cause and effect but rather is also dependent on the will of a personal supreme God. A summary of this theistic view of karma is expressed by the following: "God does not make one suffer for no reason nor does He make one happy for no reason. God is very fair and gives you exactly what you deserve
I honestly could care less if there's one or not. I just don't understand how people mold their lives around a belief that a God MAY exist. There was an article a few weeks ago where a woman went a month or two following every statement and edict that was written in the Bible. It was an interesting perspective as to how one book had such control over a person's everyday life. The hardest part she had with it was the "honoring and bowing down" to her husband.

 

[dragonzim]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/393378/what-exactly-is-gods-plan#post_3499286
I want my children to grow up with good morals and values - but that doesn't come from a church, or church doctrine... it comes from my example as a father and my wife's example as a mother.
I get frustrated when people think they can't live good moral lives without God. Then, it's the threat of Hell which keeps them doing "good" rather then genuinely wanting to be a good person.
That, my friend, is the million dollar answer!

 

[bionicarm]

Whoops. Looks like she's going for a year...
http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2011/09/a_year_of_biblical_womanhood.html