Would You Hire a Vocal Atheist?
- Thread starter garnet13aj
- Start date
jmick
Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Thus proving my point. If this quote is accurate Hitler was clueless as to what Jesus taught.
Umm, it's a great example of someone twisting religion to suit their needs in order to slander another group of people. I think that many people interpret the bible in different ways...
Look at the Mel Gibson movie, could he have made the Jews look any worse? Seems he shares some of Hitler's thoughts on the matter.
Thus proving my point. If this quote is accurate Hitler was clueless as to what Jesus taught.
Umm, it's a great example of someone twisting religion to suit their needs in order to slander another group of people. I think that many people interpret the bible in different ways...
Look at the Mel Gibson movie, could he have made the Jews look any worse? Seems he shares some of Hitler's thoughts on the matter.
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
Umm, it's a great example of someone twisting religion to suit their needs in order to slander another group of people. I think that many people interpret the bible in different ways...
Look at the Mel Gibson movie, could he have made the Jews look any worse? Seems he shares some of Hitler's thoughts on the matter.
I'm curious as to how the Jews looked bad? From a Biblical point of reference the Jewish leaders were the one's opposing Jesus. The Bible also portrays their payment to Judas to betray Christ.
That doesn't make them responsible for His death, however. The Bible teaches that Christ was the Son of God who went willingly to the cross for the sins of all men. From a Biblical point of reference that's what occured.
Jmick, If I went out right now and said "I'm going to take over the world and wipe the scourge of Europeans off the map because of my belief that Jmick has a great SW tank and he's taught me that we should all do things that way" would that make you responsible?
That's what you are doing by trying to tie Hitler into a religion.
The Bible can be interpretted different ways, to only some degree. There are some clear guidelines that can't be "twisted".
Umm, it's a great example of someone twisting religion to suit their needs in order to slander another group of people. I think that many people interpret the bible in different ways...
Look at the Mel Gibson movie, could he have made the Jews look any worse? Seems he shares some of Hitler's thoughts on the matter.
I'm curious as to how the Jews looked bad? From a Biblical point of reference the Jewish leaders were the one's opposing Jesus. The Bible also portrays their payment to Judas to betray Christ.
That doesn't make them responsible for His death, however. The Bible teaches that Christ was the Son of God who went willingly to the cross for the sins of all men. From a Biblical point of reference that's what occured.
Jmick, If I went out right now and said "I'm going to take over the world and wipe the scourge of Europeans off the map because of my belief that Jmick has a great SW tank and he's taught me that we should all do things that way" would that make you responsible?
That's what you are doing by trying to tie Hitler into a religion.
The Bible can be interpretted different ways, to only some degree. There are some clear guidelines that can't be "twisted".
jmick
Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
I'm curious as to how the Jews looked bad? From a Biblical point of reference the Jewish leaders were the one's opposing Jesus. The Bible also portrays their payment to Judas to betray Christ.
That doesn't make them responsible for His death, however. The Bible teaches that Christ was the Son of God who went willingly to the cross for the sins of all men. From a Biblical point of reference that's what occured.
Jmick, If I went out right now and said "I'm going to take over the world and wipe the scourge of Europeans off the map because of my belief that Jmick has a great SW tank and he's taught me that we should all do things that way" would that make you responsible?
That's what you are doing by trying to tie Hitler into a religion.
The Bible can be interpretted different ways, to only some degree. There are some clear guidelines that can't be "twisted".
It was my point that it can be used for as instrument of good and evil and historically it has, there is no denying that.
Well, if millions of people followed my every word (like that of Jesus) and you were charismatic enough who knows what you could convince the masses to do...
I'm curious as to how the Jews looked bad? From a Biblical point of reference the Jewish leaders were the one's opposing Jesus. The Bible also portrays their payment to Judas to betray Christ.
That doesn't make them responsible for His death, however. The Bible teaches that Christ was the Son of God who went willingly to the cross for the sins of all men. From a Biblical point of reference that's what occured.
Jmick, If I went out right now and said "I'm going to take over the world and wipe the scourge of Europeans off the map because of my belief that Jmick has a great SW tank and he's taught me that we should all do things that way" would that make you responsible?
That's what you are doing by trying to tie Hitler into a religion.
The Bible can be interpretted different ways, to only some degree. There are some clear guidelines that can't be "twisted".
It was my point that it can be used for as instrument of good and evil and historically it has, there is no denying that.
Well, if millions of people followed my every word (like that of Jesus) and you were charismatic enough who knows what you could convince the masses to do...
garnet13aj
Active Member
We all have opinions, and they are all valid.
I wouldn't go that far. In my opinion (hehe) opinions are only valid when the issue has been truly looked at from boths sides. Opinions aren't valid if they can't be defended when challenged.
John 12:47
And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
This is a really awesome quote, I just thought I'd throw that out there.
In my mind, what I envisioned based on the wording of the poll, was stumbling across your typical youtube video with someone preaching a diatribe against the church. That would turn me off to that person. Not so much as to what they said, but more for the way they said it and the forum they chose to do it in.
This is basically what I'm talking about. Someone making a video explaining why belief in a god is ridiculous and enumerating the reasons why.
Agreeed I saw the story about this on ABC last night, and it is a bunch of KIDS that are being influenced..Yes to you that are atheists, you are going to say that religion is based on influence..There is a difference in what is happening to these KIDS
These aren't 5 year olds. They are highschoolers and college kids who have chosen to look into the possibility that there is no god. It isn't influence if you are given both sides and make a decision on your own. There are people of all ages rising up to the blasphemy challenge, if that is what you are referring to. Yes, highschoolers and college "kids" are impressionable, but they are also coming into their own and learning to think for themselves. I would give them more credit. If it was "kids" of the same age going on youtube and making videos proclaiming their love for God you would pat them on the back, not say they are impressionable and don't know what they are doing.
I wouldn't go that far. In my opinion (hehe) opinions are only valid when the issue has been truly looked at from boths sides. Opinions aren't valid if they can't be defended when challenged.
John 12:47
And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
This is a really awesome quote, I just thought I'd throw that out there.
In my mind, what I envisioned based on the wording of the poll, was stumbling across your typical youtube video with someone preaching a diatribe against the church. That would turn me off to that person. Not so much as to what they said, but more for the way they said it and the forum they chose to do it in.
This is basically what I'm talking about. Someone making a video explaining why belief in a god is ridiculous and enumerating the reasons why.
Agreeed I saw the story about this on ABC last night, and it is a bunch of KIDS that are being influenced..Yes to you that are atheists, you are going to say that religion is based on influence..There is a difference in what is happening to these KIDS
These aren't 5 year olds. They are highschoolers and college kids who have chosen to look into the possibility that there is no god. It isn't influence if you are given both sides and make a decision on your own. There are people of all ages rising up to the blasphemy challenge, if that is what you are referring to. Yes, highschoolers and college "kids" are impressionable, but they are also coming into their own and learning to think for themselves. I would give them more credit. If it was "kids" of the same age going on youtube and making videos proclaiming their love for God you would pat them on the back, not say they are impressionable and don't know what they are doing.
garnet13aj
Active Member
Dictionary.com top 3 definitions for prejudice:
prej·u·dice [prej-uh-dis] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -diced, -dic·ing.
–noun
1.an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.
2.any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable.
3.unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, esp. of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.
So no. Isn' it prejudice to say "I believe in God and this is why." Therefore, it isn't prejudice to say "I don't believe in god, and this is why."
Prejudice would be "I don't believe in god, therefore I hate and would never hire a religious person."
or
"I believe in god, and therefore hate atheists/agnostics and would never hire one."
prej·u·dice [prej-uh-dis] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -diced, -dic·ing.
–noun
1.an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.
2.any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable.
3.unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, esp. of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.
So no. Isn' it prejudice to say "I believe in God and this is why." Therefore, it isn't prejudice to say "I don't believe in god, and this is why."
Prejudice would be "I don't believe in god, therefore I hate and would never hire a religious person."
or
"I believe in god, and therefore hate atheists/agnostics and would never hire one."
garnet13aj
Active Member
One definition I found on dictionary.com:
To make distinctions on the basis of class or category without regard to individual merit; show preference or prejudice
They are very similar. I would say (correct me if Im wrong) acting on a prejudice would be to discriminate.
To make distinctions on the basis of class or category without regard to individual merit; show preference or prejudice
They are very similar. I would say (correct me if Im wrong) acting on a prejudice would be to discriminate.
bang guy
Moderator
Originally Posted by watson3
So where would the line of discrimination versus prejudice be..
Prejudice would be more like thinking someone would not be trustworthy if they didn't believe in God. We all have prejudice in some form. Our minds are set up to form paradigms that help us predict the future. It's what we do. When it goes too far and we are brainwashed into applying irrational beliefs this feature of the human brain can become troublesome.
Discrimination would be not hiring someone because they didn't believe in God when the job has nothing to do with that belief. This would be the application of an irrational prejudice.
So where would the line of discrimination versus prejudice be..
Prejudice would be more like thinking someone would not be trustworthy if they didn't believe in God. We all have prejudice in some form. Our minds are set up to form paradigms that help us predict the future. It's what we do. When it goes too far and we are brainwashed into applying irrational beliefs this feature of the human brain can become troublesome.
Discrimination would be not hiring someone because they didn't believe in God when the job has nothing to do with that belief. This would be the application of an irrational prejudice.
hagfish
Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Ok, that's just silly.
If I go around claiming I'm an Elf does that make it true? Hitler's parents may have been Catholic, Hitler may have attended mass, heck he could have trained to be a bishop. That doesn't make him a "Catholic".
"But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do."
Religion is more than checking a box, giving money, or sitting on a pew.
Exactly. If one is a Christian there is evidence of it. Typically, it's not very obvious to humans because we don't know everything people do and think. But there is really no way he could have been a true Christian given all the things he did. It is possible he repented and truly meant it toward the end. But I doubt it, and if he did I doubt he meant it.
The church someone goes to makes no difference if they don't hold to it's beliefs.
Ok, that's just silly.
If I go around claiming I'm an Elf does that make it true? Hitler's parents may have been Catholic, Hitler may have attended mass, heck he could have trained to be a bishop. That doesn't make him a "Catholic".
"But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do."
Religion is more than checking a box, giving money, or sitting on a pew.
Exactly. If one is a Christian there is evidence of it. Typically, it's not very obvious to humans because we don't know everything people do and think. But there is really no way he could have been a true Christian given all the things he did. It is possible he repented and truly meant it toward the end. But I doubt it, and if he did I doubt he meant it.
The church someone goes to makes no difference if they don't hold to it's beliefs.
hagfish
Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
I thought I might chime in on this. I am agnostic; I neither accept or reject the existence of god or a higher power. I treat all people the same and give everyone the benefit of the doubt regardless or race, religion or sexual orientation. That said, I have found many times that people who are very religious tend to be judgmental and more often then not want to convert you and push their faith done your throat. Just look what missionaries have done to native cultures in the Americas, Asia and Africa. They’d often separate children from parents in order to severe ties with their past and culture in order to make more Christians. Also, how many people in South America and Africa have caught STDs from fear of using condoms because the Pope has held such hard line against? How many wars have been started in the name of religion? The annihilation of American Indians from the 15th to the 19th century, which resulted in at least 20 million deaths, was at the hands of Christians.
Well, I might actually hire a vocal atheist over a hard core Christian who feels that you aren’t as good as they are because you don’t follow the same belief system. Look at the comments that Watson has made, he is a perfect example.
You talk of missionaries like they are terrible people. They are doing amazing things in many places. They provide food and water for many. They provide clothes and books. And much more. And often at considerable personal risk.
Now, the seperation from family is difficult to understand if you don't hold Christian beliefs. But Jesus himself said it is better to hate your family than to turn your back on God. If I had to choose between my family and God today I'd choose God. Many of the early Christians actually had to make this choice. Not only that, but they were being tortured and killed by the Romans for their beliefs. But still, they believed and accepted their fate.
As for STD's, please don't tell me that a lack of belief in God or His commands could possibly decrease this number. The Pope is also against pre-marital --- and --- outside of marriage in general. Obviously if people were following through with these Biblical commands there would be very low STD numbers in the world. Plus, in many places in Africa STD's are so high largely due to incredible numbers of ---- victims. THIS, is what a lack of beliefs can ultimately lead to when taken to it's logical conclusion. That conclusion is that there is no ultimate penalty for anything.
I can't even believe someone has just tried to pin high STD numbers on Christian beliefs.
I thought I might chime in on this. I am agnostic; I neither accept or reject the existence of god or a higher power. I treat all people the same and give everyone the benefit of the doubt regardless or race, religion or sexual orientation. That said, I have found many times that people who are very religious tend to be judgmental and more often then not want to convert you and push their faith done your throat. Just look what missionaries have done to native cultures in the Americas, Asia and Africa. They’d often separate children from parents in order to severe ties with their past and culture in order to make more Christians. Also, how many people in South America and Africa have caught STDs from fear of using condoms because the Pope has held such hard line against? How many wars have been started in the name of religion? The annihilation of American Indians from the 15th to the 19th century, which resulted in at least 20 million deaths, was at the hands of Christians.
Well, I might actually hire a vocal atheist over a hard core Christian who feels that you aren’t as good as they are because you don’t follow the same belief system. Look at the comments that Watson has made, he is a perfect example.
You talk of missionaries like they are terrible people. They are doing amazing things in many places. They provide food and water for many. They provide clothes and books. And much more. And often at considerable personal risk.
Now, the seperation from family is difficult to understand if you don't hold Christian beliefs. But Jesus himself said it is better to hate your family than to turn your back on God. If I had to choose between my family and God today I'd choose God. Many of the early Christians actually had to make this choice. Not only that, but they were being tortured and killed by the Romans for their beliefs. But still, they believed and accepted their fate.
As for STD's, please don't tell me that a lack of belief in God or His commands could possibly decrease this number. The Pope is also against pre-marital --- and --- outside of marriage in general. Obviously if people were following through with these Biblical commands there would be very low STD numbers in the world. Plus, in many places in Africa STD's are so high largely due to incredible numbers of ---- victims. THIS, is what a lack of beliefs can ultimately lead to when taken to it's logical conclusion. That conclusion is that there is no ultimate penalty for anything.
I can't even believe someone has just tried to pin high STD numbers on Christian beliefs.
garnet13aj
Active Member
So, in case anybody's still interested in the original subject, I'll throw out another viewpoint someone brought up during our club discussion.
One of the Christians at our meeting said he may be more likely to hire an atheist, if he was well qualified to ensure a diverse envirnment in the office. He said he wouldn't want to end up w/a vacuum of the same ideas w/no variety. I have heard this reasoning applied to the idea of hiring a diverse mix of races also. Especially in a business where creative ideas are important, a diverse mix of people from diverse backgrounds can increase the amount of original ideas thrown in the pot. This can be true for advertising, politics, and creating new products.
One of the Christians at our meeting said he may be more likely to hire an atheist, if he was well qualified to ensure a diverse envirnment in the office. He said he wouldn't want to end up w/a vacuum of the same ideas w/no variety. I have heard this reasoning applied to the idea of hiring a diverse mix of races also. Especially in a business where creative ideas are important, a diverse mix of people from diverse backgrounds can increase the amount of original ideas thrown in the pot. This can be true for advertising, politics, and creating new products.
jmick
Active Member
Originally Posted by hagfish
You talk of missionaries like they are terrible people. They are doing amazing things in many places. They provide food and water for many. They provide clothes and books. And much more. And often at considerable personal risk.
Now, the seperation from family is difficult to understand if you don't hold Christian beliefs. But Jesus himself said it is better to hate your family than to turn your back on God. If I had to choose between my family and God today I'd choose God. Many of the early Christians actually had to make this choice. Not only that, but they were being tortured and killed by the Romans for their beliefs. But still, they believed and accepted their fate.
As for STD's, please don't tell me that a lack of belief in God or His commands could possibly decrease this number. The Pope is also against pre-marital --- and --- outside of marriage in general. Obviously if people were following through with these Biblical commands there would be very low STD numbers in the world. Plus, in many places in Africa STD's are so high largely due to incredible numbers of ---- victims. THIS, is what a lack of beliefs can ultimately lead to when taken to it's logical conclusion. That conclusion is that there is no ultimate penalty for anything.
I can't even believe someone has just tried to pin high STD numbers on Christian beliefs.
They may think and feel they are doing the right thing by pushing god on the undeveloped nations and people of the world and are more often then not very self righteous and zealots. The destruction of Native American Identity can be blamed on missionaries who viewed them as savages and idiots who needed to be saved. Missionaries were also a vehicle used to exploit the natives for their land and resources.
You talk of missionaries like they are terrible people. They are doing amazing things in many places. They provide food and water for many. They provide clothes and books. And much more. And often at considerable personal risk.
Now, the seperation from family is difficult to understand if you don't hold Christian beliefs. But Jesus himself said it is better to hate your family than to turn your back on God. If I had to choose between my family and God today I'd choose God. Many of the early Christians actually had to make this choice. Not only that, but they were being tortured and killed by the Romans for their beliefs. But still, they believed and accepted their fate.
As for STD's, please don't tell me that a lack of belief in God or His commands could possibly decrease this number. The Pope is also against pre-marital --- and --- outside of marriage in general. Obviously if people were following through with these Biblical commands there would be very low STD numbers in the world. Plus, in many places in Africa STD's are so high largely due to incredible numbers of ---- victims. THIS, is what a lack of beliefs can ultimately lead to when taken to it's logical conclusion. That conclusion is that there is no ultimate penalty for anything.
I can't even believe someone has just tried to pin high STD numbers on Christian beliefs.
They may think and feel they are doing the right thing by pushing god on the undeveloped nations and people of the world and are more often then not very self righteous and zealots. The destruction of Native American Identity can be blamed on missionaries who viewed them as savages and idiots who needed to be saved. Missionaries were also a vehicle used to exploit the natives for their land and resources.