Yes, YET ANOTHER POLITICAL THREAD! lol

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by NOTSONOOB
http:///forum/post/2708559
In reality it is their children and children's children that were the assimulated bunch into the US culture. Most of them just came here for work, to make a better life for their spawn.
Anyway, the BIG (capital big) difference is that they didn't come here breaking laws and stealing identities and that is the problem that we all have with it.
What they should have done was built a little burg on the Rio Grande that all could come through documented, checked and stamped, just like Elis Island and I think that there would have been no problems with the whole idea.
Second, is that it is also a battle with corporations, who favor dead unions and cheap sources of labor.
Yeah but those people took the initiative to learn the language and in many cases insisted it was the only language spoken in the home. A good friend of mine is married to a girl who's parents were born in Mexico. She speaks in perfect english unless she says a proper spanish name, Tortillia, Edwardo, Encinata etc. and then she pronounceds the names with a perfect mexican accent. Funny think is the girl doesn't speak spanish at all. Here parents were a little too concerned that the kid spoke perfect english.
As far as dead unions I am all for it. Their day came and went. They are just another political group now.

 

[darthtang aw]

unions are a big reason you saw a lot of jobs go overseas. The public wanted a cheap product...the business had to find ways to cut costs, avoiding union employees is a huge cost cutter. I have seen many union employee in my time, very rarely do I see them best butt and work hard. A lot of times they don't work the entire 8 hours either..unions were a good thing in the beginning but as with everything became corrupt and obstructions later.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2708994
Yeah but those people took the initiative to learn the language and in many cases insisted it was the only language spoken in the home. A good friend of mine is married to a girl who's parents were born in Mexico. She speaks in perfect english unless she says a proper spanish name, Tortillia, Edwardo, Encinata etc. and then she pronounceds the names with a perfect mexican accent. Funny think is the girl doesn't speak spanish at all. Here parents were a little too concerned that the kid spoke perfect english.
As far as dead unions I am all for it. Their day came and went. They are just another political group now.
Growing up my mom (1st gen american) was preached at to get straight A's and learn to speak english without an accent, because people will judge you on how you speak. My grandparants weren't perfect but they had that right.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2708024
A black man can be President in the USA.... My hope, however, is that a Socialist cannot.
This has nothing to do with race. It has to do with upholding the Constitution. The very reason our country is not like your homeland is due to that founding document.
Now, by his own admission, Obama will gut parts of the Constitution. That's why many of us oppose him.
If you want to go back home feel free. Our Nation will be just fine without the constant stream of immigrants, despite what the liberals try to say otherwise. I live on a border state, I have seen firsthand what a withering drain immigrants have been.
Obama can not "gut" the Constitution... as you put it... Secondly, Bush has already violated the Constitution in regards to the wire-tapping, not to mention International law by engaging in the Iraq war. And yes, race does play a role in this election in the minds of voters whom there are many that will not vote for him based on his race. Racism is a very real issue today and it has not gone anywhere...

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2710188
Obama can not "gut" the Constitution... as you put it... Secondly, Bush has already violated the Constitution in regards to the wire-tapping, not to mention International law by engaging in the Iraq war. And yes, race does play a role in this election in the minds of voters whom there are many that will not vote for him based on his race. Racism is a very real issue today and it has not gone anywhere...
You almost topped yourself this time. If you want to talk "international law" lets talk the 17 UN resolutions...
The only place racism hasn't gone anywear is within the black community. The simple fact that we have a black candidate as a nominee for the second biggest party in the nation should be proof enough. Or black a Supreme court Justice, black woman US secretary of state... But it isn't. Go figure.
Have you noticed, Rylan that it hasn't been Republicans talking about race? It wasn't a republican who said Obama doesn't look like the guys on the dollar bill... MLK's dream hasn't been fulfilled, because democrats still judge you based on the color of your skin...

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2707035
It is predicted it would take 10 years for ANWAR production to hit the markets. Had that boob Clinton not vetoed the bill that would be on our markets lowering prices now.
Democrats are calling on Bush to release a third of the petroleum reserves to the market now to lower gas prices. How is increasing production any different? And according to the people who do the offshore drilling work, additional production would come on line as soon as a year and the most remote sites could take as long as six years
And for the record the largest source of oil spilled in the ocean is from natural seeps (62%). Oil production tends to lessen those.
http://www.cnie.org/NLE/CRSreports/06Nov/RL33705.pdf
Page 34
Classic Republican spin is more oil is the answer... facts are that it is not. We can blame speculators, the Iraq war, greed, and oil producer gawging,and increased demand for high oil... More oil is only a temporary bandaid that we won't feel for years to come... This ANWAR proposal is just like the Tax Holiday.
How can McCain offer a Tax Holiday as part of his campaign when we were already in summer for one, and 2nd it wouldn't be implemented until next year.
McCain's solutions equate to pennies... The real and and only solution is to move away from oil and to implement alternative fuels... This is the key to solving the Energy crisis, Auto & plane industries crisis, jobs, and a struggling economy.
Obama is offering $1000 energy rebate... So he does care and is addressing the issue temporarily... but again more oil like McCain is calling for will do very little if anything.... We knew 30 years ago that we needed to develop alternative fuels... just like we knew social security would be a problem.. This is not a last 10 years problem.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by NOTSONOOB
http:///forum/post/2708388
This of course is a very inaccurate statement. If it is inacted into law then you will see impacts in 5-6 years.
However, this is the OBAMA alternative. Fill your tank with Ethanol. You know, from companies I have stock options with. Your car will pollute more and have less efficient, so you have to fill up your tank more often, but what do I care, I'll get rich off corn procedes.
In other words, we HAVE no choice but to get oil we need. Either we keep the trillions of dollars for energy in our economy, OR we give it to whacko shieks that want to blow us up anyway. Or how about Putin?
There you have it. The great debate.
The alternatives are there, but in the mean time you have to have butter for your bread. Most alternatives are at LEAST 10 years out. Can we afford to send 10 years worth of energy costs out of this country?
Of course you realize "Flipper" (changes his mind faster than lighting) changed his position again!
No, the alternatives are there... problem is there is no incentives for them to be implemented... The 1st electric car was produced like 90-100 years ago. Brazil uses alternative fuels. The issue is America is reluctant to change unless it is highly profitable. 10 years is what is being projected, but even if you are right.... 5-6 years... can we afford to pay rising costs for that length of time? At that point, 10 cents cheaper gas will be only a fraction of the $5+ gas we see at the pump.
The only way to lower prices is to develop alternatives and to use less of it...

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2708540
Yeah but you saw those people strive to become part of "America" with a few exceptions. It's one thing to add eliments of foreign cultures to our own, that is one thing that accounts for the overall greatness of this country but when people refuse to even learn the language, then expect, no demand that we teach their kids in their native language and offer government services the illegals aren't entitled to in the first place in a native language? I don't think so.
Celebrating St. Paddys and Cinco De Mayo has become as American as Sweet and Sour Pork or Margaritas

Thats all great but we don't really want vast areas where the culture of another country replaces our own. China town, Little Siagon etc. is OK but lets face it, Southern California has gotten to the point where Mexican culture is overtaking our own and it is a direct result of uncontrolled immigration.
Very interesting... American culture is a mix of all those cultures ... I think your comments are just the arrogance of americans... Were you required to learn Apache or any of the other native languages? My point is that these people should be required to learn english, but when Americans go to other countries.. .we expect them to know english... We have foreigners come here and they'll know 3 or 4 languages... yet we know only one, and grammatically we are not very good at the one we do know. Culture is more than just the food you eat... Everything from Christmas traditions, beer, and the many regional traditions from the midwest, east coast, creole, and on and on... all are unique to the people who inhabited that area. Heck, Californina and the whole Southwest was Mexican to about 150 years ago.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2710203
Classic Republican spin is more oil is the answer... facts are that it is not. We can blame speculators, the Iraq war, greed, and oil producer gawging,and increased demand for high oil... More oil is only a temporary bandaid that we won't feel for years to come... This ANWAR proposal is just like the Tax Holiday.
How can McCain offer a Tax Holiday as part of his campaign when we were already in summer for one, and 2nd it wouldn't be implemented until next year.
McCain's solutions equate to pennies... The real and and only solution is to move away from oil and to implement alternative fuels... This is the key to solving the Energy crisis, Auto & plane industries crisis, jobs, and a struggling economy.
Obama is offering $1000 energy rebate... So he does care and is addressing the issue temporarily... but again more oil like McCain is calling for will do very little if anything.... We knew 30 years ago that we needed to develop alternative fuels... just like we knew social security would be a problem.. This is not a last 10 years problem.
Is the law of supply and demand too complicated for you to grasp?
We aren't even close to having any signifigant results from alternatives. We have already seen what a great idea the ethenol push was

The move to alternative fuels is going to take a lot of time and in the meanwhile you want us to pay 4 bucks a gallon for gas.
And as far as Obama's 1000 dollar energy credit how is he going to pay for it? Raising taxes on the oil companies? Great, then they will just increase the prices we pay to cover the tax increases.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2710198
You almost topped yourself this time. If you want to talk "international law" lets talk the 17 UN resolutions...
The only place racism hasn't gone anywear is within the black community. The simple fact that we have a black candidate as a nominee for the second biggest party in the nation should be proof enough. Or black a Supreme court Justice, black woman US secretary of state... But it isn't. Go figure.
Have you noticed, Rylan that it hasn't been Republicans talking about race? It wasn't a republican who said Obama doesn't look like the guys on the dollar bill... MLK's dream hasn't been fulfilled, because democrats still judge you based on the color of your skin...
No it has not... the common mistake that people make is they say look at Powell, Rice, Obama... and they say look you have made it... Yet, they refuse to look at the statistics... The fact that people have said on this very thread that they will not vote for him because they want to "save his life"... that is proof enough... it is not about Republicans or Democrats... its about Americans and the stigma of what it means to be Black in America. It is hard for me to even get into a nightclub in my own city because I am a young black male... Forget about my education and the fact that I am a professional. Something also of significance is the apology issues by Congress that has gotten little press. All the people you mentioned are firsts or perhaps the second in history.
Now back to your original comment because I don't want this to be a racial thread... 17 Resolutions ?..... You skipped the part about the Constitution... did Bush violate it or not?

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2710248
Very interesting... American culture is a mix of all those cultures ... I think your comments are just the arrogance of americans... Were you required to learn Apache or any of the other native languages? My point is that these people should be required to learn english, but when Americans go to other countries.. .we expect them to know english... We have foreigners come here and they'll know 3 or 4 languages... yet we know only one, and grammatically we are not very good at the one we do know. Culture is more than just the food you eat... Everything from Christmas traditions, beer, and the many regional traditions from the midwest, east coast, creole, and on and on... all are unique to the people who inhabited that area. Heck, Californina and the whole Southwest was Mexican to about 150 years ago.
I get that you don't care much for this country but name a better one? I've been to Europe, have you? I didn't expect that many people would know English and I was right. If you can see the difference between people wanting to come to this country to live and work without speaking the language and a tourist I don't know what to tell you.
The whole point is we have our own culture that is exactly as you said, a mix of a lot of others. When you allow a huge influx of immigrants from a single country pretty soon that culture starts to overtake our own, not flavor it.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2710203
Classic Republican spin is more oil is the answer... facts are that it is not. We can blame speculators, the Iraq war, greed, and oil producer gawging,and increased demand for high oil... More oil is only a temporary bandaid that we won't feel for years to come... This ANWAR proposal is just like the Tax Holiday.
How can McCain offer a Tax Holiday as part of his campaign when we were already in summer for one, and 2nd it wouldn't be implemented until next year.
McCain's solutions equate to pennies... The real and and only solution is to move away from oil and to implement alternative fuels... This is the key to solving the Energy crisis, Auto & plane industries crisis, jobs, and a struggling economy.
Obama is offering $1000 energy rebate... So he does care and is addressing the issue temporarily... but again more oil like McCain is calling for will do very little if anything.... We knew 30 years ago that we needed to develop alternative fuels... just like we knew social security would be a problem.. This is not a last 10 years problem.
Not classic republican answer, unless you want to say that the republicans actually believe in classic Freedman economics.
Here is the deal. If the growth in supply outpaces the growth in demand then price will go down. Why won't that concept get through your head?
Heck even the insane Pelosi is trying to increase supply by other means, (releasing oil for the oil reserve, the problem is we can't release enough to really change prices). IF you want to talk bandaid there you go...
You know what is funny the feds make as much from big oil as big oil makes from oil, and they don't have any risk. Got to love a politician going out and saying we need to charge em more, so they can in turn charge you more, then pay for the bureaucracy, then pay you a grand, it is just silly, moronic Jimmy Carter style economics and we all know what happens when we let the Jimmy Carters of the world in charge.
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2710211
No, the alternatives are there... problem is there is no incentives for them to be implemented... The 1st electric car was produced like 90-100 years ago. Brazil uses alternative fuels. The issue is America is reluctant to change unless it is highly profitable. 10 years is what is being projected, but even if you are right.... 5-6 years... can we afford to pay rising costs for that length of time? At that point, 10 cents cheaper gas will be only a fraction of the $5+ gas we see at the pump.
The only way to lower prices is to develop alternatives and to use less of it...
Brazil uses Sugar to make ethenol, we can't use produce sugar without major subsities because it isn't worth it. So, yeah, we could less efficiently produce sugar and spend a fortune, but frankly 4 dollar oil is better than trying to turn sugar into fuel, that would be more expensive. The beauty of our economic system is that it promotes efficiency while not promoting wasteful spending, and that is why we as tax payers have to fund subsities for silly ideas like using corn to produce oil. It his us three times, through taxes, through increase fuel costs and increased food costs. Brilliant. Or we could drill for more oil, which lowers price, helps local economies, and we don't use our own food to drive. This is just silly, there is NO LOGICAL way for Obama's hair brained carter style plans to work, We have been down this road IT DOESN"T WORK so quit wasting our times.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2710255
Now back to your original comment because I don't want this to be a racial thread... 17 Resolutions ?..... You skipped the part about the Constitution... did Bush violate it or not?
Because it isn't worth the argument, I could go show you how it was legal, but you'd have your fingers in your ears going "I'm not listening" so why bother?

 

[stdreb27]

As for the "Americans are still racist" charge, look simply put, you have a black candidate who by vote won the primary and a strong contender for an election. Regardless of political views you have a big chunk of american society willing to vote for a black candidate. Well maybe dispite political views...

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2710252
Is the law of supply and demand too complicated for you to grasp?
We aren't even close to having any signifigant results from alternatives. We have already seen what a great idea the ethenol push was

The move to alternative fuels is going to take a lot of time and in the meanwhile you want us to pay 4 bucks a gallon for gas.
And as far as Obama's 1000 dollar energy credit how is he going to pay for it? Raising taxes on the oil companies? Great, then they will just increase the prices we pay to cover the tax increases.
there is more than just ethanol.. I don't think that this is his or anybody's only option or option.. We are talking nuclear, geo-thermal, wind, electric, and other alternatives like ethanol from trash, corn, sugarcane, and there is another crop that produces 40% more ethanol than corn does- forget what its called.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2710334
there is more than just ethanol.. I don't think that this is his or anybody's only option or option.. We are talking nuclear, geo-thermal, wind, electric, and other alternatives like ethanol from trash, corn, sugarcane, and there is another crop that produces 40% more ethanol than corn does- forget what its called.
The simple fact is, we can't have "nuclear" cars. We already HEAVILY subside sugarcane (what brazil uses) The simple fact remains our economic system promotes good ideas through competition. If someone really had a "water car" or whatever, it would be mass produced. Because people would jump on it.
The technology isn't developed or even invented. And that will take way longer than even using Obama's 10 year number.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2710334
there is more than just ethanol.. I don't think that this is his or anybody's only option or option.. We are talking nuclear, geo-thermal, wind, electric, and other alternatives like ethanol from trash, corn, sugarcane, and there is another crop that produces 40% more ethanol than corn does- forget what its called.
Rylan, do you understand that as far as wind, solar and nuclear they are not a competing technology with oil? Those are sources of electric power generation. There is only a fractional percentage of our electric power that comes from petroleum based products. Natural gas, coal and hydro are our main sources.
Biodiesel, ethenol (the right kind) and in some cases natural gas are the only alternatives to oil as far as transportation right now. Those will have a small effect for now but the wind, solar etc. are all good things we should be developing but it wont affect our oil use other than what it takes to mine the coal use in coal fired plants.
Once battery technology makes fully electric cars more practical they (wind, solar, nuke) will have an indirect impact. But again that technology is still years away.
At this point I think the hot ticket is Diesel powered hybrids. A turbodiesel VW gets much better mileage than even a Toyota Prius. If the TD technology were married to the Hybrid system 100 MPG may be a reality for a small car.
Thing is none of that will have an effect anytime soon. Not enough Diesel power cars in this country right now for the Biodiesel to make a big difference. Pure electric cars are too expensive right now and don't have the range/recharge time to make them a viable for anything but short city trips anyway. Ethanol would be doable if the politicians got a backbone and would kill the subsidies for corn based and shift to celluostic based ethanol.
I am all for pursuing the alternatives. We are going to need them but for now we also need the oil and a lot of it.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2710643
Rylan, do you understand that as far as wind, solar and nuclear they are not a competing technology with oil? Those are sources of electric power generation. There is only a fractional percentage of our electric power that comes from petroleum based products. Natural gas, coal and hydro are our main sources.
Biodiesel, ethenol (the right kind) and in some cases natural gas are the only alternatives to oil as far as transportation right now. Those will have a small effect for now but the wind, solar etc. are all good things we should be developing but it wont affect our oil use other than what it takes to mine the coal use in coal fired plants.
Once battery technology makes fully electric cars more practical they (wind, solar, nuke) will have an indirect impact. But again that technology is still years away.
At this point I think the hot ticket is Diesel powered hybrids. A turbodiesel VW gets much better mileage than even a Toyota Prius. If the TD technology were married to the Hybrid system 100 MPG may be a reality for a small car.
Thing is none of that will have an effect anytime soon. Not enough Diesel power cars in this country right now for the Biodiesel to make a big difference. Pure electric cars are too expensive right now and don't have the range/recharge time to make them a viable for anything but short city trips anyway. Ethanol would be doable if the politicians got a backbone and would kill the subsidies for corn based and shift to celluostic based ethanol.
I am all for pursuing the alternatives. We are going to need them but for now we also need the oil and a lot of it.
Why change to ethanol it is dirtier than burning gas and more expensive?

 

[reefreak29]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2710334
there is more than just ethanol.. I don't think that this is his or anybody's only option or option.. We are talking nuclear, geo-thermal, wind, electric, and other alternatives like ethanol from trash, corn, sugarcane, and there is another crop that produces 40% more ethanol than corn does- forget what its called.
switch grass

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2710645
Why change to ethanol it is dirtier than burning gas and more expensive?
Running ethanol is cleaner, producing it isn't real effective yet but it can be. If they switch over to the non grain version it makes more sense. You are convering what is otherwise going to end up in a landfill into fuel. Not a bad deal all in all. If we are using wind, solar nuclear etc. to generate the electricity used to make the ethanol it's a good deal all around.