Yet another reason to ban assault weapons

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2990792
*sigh*, the NRA is the biggest lobbyist and PAC in Washington. They're practically in every politician's pocket so they'll support their twisted agenda's. Every NRA card holder I've come across is the last person I'd give a gun to. Why? Because they talk like you, and have no clue what the meaning of proper gun usage is. Their idea of handling a gun is how many bullets they can run through it, and what kind of recoil it has. Ninety percent of them wouldn't know what to do in a life threatening situation if their lives depended on it. They have the same mentality as you -- if I'm packin', I'm protected. Just try to intimidate or threaten me and see what happens. What happens is they get disarmed by their attacker and their weapon is used against them. That, or they pull their weapon with the intent in using it, but don't assess the situation first -- like pulling a gun out and pointing it at a carload of punks.

Why don't you try looking up actual facts and figures before spouting off crap like "The NRA is the biggest Lobbying group/pac". They aren't even in the top 20 for PACs or lobbying.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2990828
First off how do you know "Im a gun accident waiting to happen?" That like me just saying you where a accidental conception that happened.
So let me answer your first question,No im have not taken a C&C course since Illinois currently dosent allow citizens to C&C.But thanks to the NRA and the Illinois Sheriffs Police Association that is in the works so that i can.At that point i will be required to do so.
However this hasent slowed down the criminals in the murder capital of the USA "Chicago" or the rest of my state.
Now to this statementHMMMMMM? well let me answer that like this.If we where we might still have a living minister in downstate Illinois and some 5 living students at NIU.They may have been able to protect themselves from these two separate insane people
Yeah you already stated you would have waited to see him take your child or shoot you or your family before you got through reasoning with the perpetrators.
Here is my official stance,A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
So until Congress rescinds or amends this you cant have my guns,any of them,in any way shape or form.
You sure like to paint with a broad brush and make a lot of assumptions. Im 99.9% sure that i can and would make the right judgment call under duress.Deadly force is a last resort but if it came down to me or a criminal perpetrating a crime that may result in harm to me or my family i like my chances much more armed than not and having to reason with a bullet.
BTW i am quite proficient with a firearm and do preform well under pressure.
At least Illinois has the sense not to allow the 'gangsta's' of Chicago to own guns. Talk about rising crime and deadly assault by weapons crimes.

Good try. If someone had a gun when that guy shot that minister, there would've been even more bloodshed.
I bet you do think you're proficient with a firearm. Most of the NRA totin' card holders think they are. It's quite apparent you don't have a clue what kind of pressure you would be iun if the situation did arise where you'd have to pull a weapon on another human being. You watch too many movies. Please do yourself a favor and avoid a CWP at all costs if they do become available in Illinois. I wouldn't want your wife of family to have to bury you at such a young age.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2990956
Those are typically the best places. But then again, I typically don't go to an actual bar per say. Most restaurant I walk into, don't ban guns. And we look because we typically won't come back if they do.
Now there's a statement from a good ole' boy NRA card holder. So do you also avoid any restaurant that allows smoking? You're more likely to die from second-hand smoke in an establishment that you are from a gunshot wound. You are one paranoid individual.

 

[oscardeuce]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2991027
I bet you do think you're proficient with a firearm. Most of the NRA totin' card holders think they are. It's quite apparent you don't have a clue what kind of pressure you would be iun if the situation did arise where you'd have to pull a weapon on another human being. You watch too many movies. Please do yourself a favor and avoid a CWP at all costs if they do become available in Illinois. I wouldn't want your wife of family to have to bury you at such a young age.
Would winning a National high power event, and 4 State Championships in small bore count as "proficient"?
Bionic,
I'm waiting on your answer.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2990960
Once again ASSuming you know the facts.
First off I have no CWP. I carried (and still do) the gun in my car.
I would never point a gun at anything I didn't intend to shoot or was at least willing to shoot. Making eye contact with the driver while holding the gun pointed straight up was enough for him to decide HE WAS THROUGH PLAYING GAMES. I had tried slowing down and speeding up to avoid the clowns and they kept right beside me. We were coming up on a red light with cars in both lanes where I couldn't avoid the idiot. The gun finally came out when the guy sitting in the middle of the back seat reached under the seat for something. He saw the gun and stopped short of the other cars, light turned green and I cut a right. Never saw them again. I suppose in your world I should have let the 5 of them drag me out of the car

I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Had it come to the point of shooting I would be willing to make my case.
Oh, and the whole thing that started this was a guy I knew had written the Bulls suck and a couple other things on the back of my car with white shoe polish. This was during the Suns Bulls finals in 93 and I was in Phoenix. Evidently the bangers like the Bulls or something.
Ah, hear it comes out. So you were in the middle of a road rage incident, and you pulled out an ILLEGAL weapon from under your seat to show you had the capability of 'blowin' their heads off'. And you're telling me some detective friend of yours said this was the right thing to do?

He should have confiscated your gun and arrested you on the spot. Had you used that weapon against those idiots, you'd be writing your response from a jail cell. YOU HAVE NO LEGAL RIGHT TO CARRY A WEAPON IN YOUR VEHICLE. You may transport that weapon to and from your primary residence if you are taking it to a gun shop or shooting range, but it has to be unloaded, and should be in the trunk of your car. You better pray you never get pulled over and the cop has a reason to search your car or happens to see that gun. Trust me, I know this from experience. I don't know the laws in Arizona, but I imagine they are similar to the one's in Texas. Better keep a record of your closest 6 friends. Pull a stunt like that again, you'll need them.

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2991027
At least Illinois has the sense not to allow the 'gangsta's' of Chicago to own guns. Talk about rising crime and deadly assault by weapons crimes.

LOL Yeah while Chicago was busy enforcing its No Handgun Law within its city limits it elevated itself to Murder Capital of the USA.Your argument is beyond a weak one it is ridicules.
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2991027
Good try. If someone had a gun when that guy shot that minister, there would've been even more bloodshed.
Uh yeah ...That poor murdering lunatic whould have been shot and he would have bleed some before he slit his own throat

. Poor lunatic
Weak Bionicarm very weak.
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2991027
I bet you do think you're proficient with a firearm. Most of the NRA totin' card holders think they are. It's quite apparent you don't have a clue what kind of pressure you would be iun if the situation did arise where you'd have to pull a weapon on another human being. You watch too many movies. Please do yourself a favor and avoid a CWP at all costs if they do become available in Illinois. I wouldn't want your wife of family to have to bury you at such a young age.
You have now crossed over into the "Talking out of your rectum" phase of your argument it just went from weak to pathetic. Again do you know me? To be able to make to make such a baseless statements is absurd.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2990965
Why don't you try looking up actual facts and figures before spouting off crap like "The NRA is the biggest Lobbying group/pac". They aren't even in the top 20 for PACs or lobbying.
Yea right. Why do you think the major gun ban laws have always been swept under the carpet? How do you think the D.C. ban was overturned? Wake up and smell the roses.

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2991033
Yea right. Why do you think the major gun ban laws have always been swept under the carpet? How do you think the D.C. ban was overturned? Wake up and smell the roses.
Uhhhh Because they are Unconstitutional.You dont have to like it just learn to live with it.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2991032
LOL Yeah while Chicago was busy enforcing its No Handgun Law within its city limits it elevated itself to Murder Capital of the USA.Your argument is beyond a weak one it is residuals.
Uh yeah ...That poor murdering lunatic whould have been shot and he would have bleed some before he slit his own throa

^&. Poor lunatic
Weak Bionicarm very weak.
You have now crossed over into the "Talking out of your rectum" phase of your argument it just went from weak to pathetic. Again do you know me? To be able to make to make such a baseless statements is absurd.
Do I know you? No. Do I know people exactly like you? Yes I do. And a couple of them I helped carry their coffin to their grave because they walked around with the same attitude of yours.
Illinois apparently has a good reason for not allowing CWP in their state. Considering the crime history there, I can understand why. Allowing normal citizens like you the ability to carry would probably triple the crime rate in the major cities. Again, you make assumptions of what someone with a gun could POSSIBLY do in a shooting like the one that happened in that church.

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2991038
Do I know you? No. Do I know people exactly like you? Yes I do. And a couple of them I helped carry their coffin to their grave because they walked around with the same attitude of yours.
Sure you do

I might know a person or 3 that have been killed by gun violence during 2 robberies and trying to stop a man from playing hand ball with his girlfriend head.
*Edit*
Opps i forgot my cousin , shot dead while asking for directions.
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2991038
Illinois apparently has a good reason for not allowing CWP in their state. Considering the crime history there, I can understand why.
Well i guess you should contact the Illinois Sheriff Association then because they seem to think its a good idea to allow C&C .http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/Bill...7&SessionID=76
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2991038
Allowing normal citizens like you the ability to carry would probably triple the crime rate in the major cities.
Triple the crime rate huh? Thats what they said about Gun Town USA ...Google it and see what facts you find out.
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2991038
Again, you make assumptions of what someone with a gun could POSSIBLY do in a shooting like the one that happened in that church.
Yup.I would say the odds of the lunatic killing the minister go down significantly.

 

[oscardeuce]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2990743
Jesus, where do you people come up with this stuff? The idiots on the 9-11 planes didn't have guns. They had razor blades. They were able to do what they did because of the lax security measures the FCC allowed prior to 9-11. Read the other posts about taking the guns away from pilots (I guess that's the argument). From what a highly experienced flight attendent says, over 90% of flights these days has an Air Marshall on it. If those policies were implemented prior to 9-11, there's a good chance none of the 9-11 planes would've crashed or hit their mark. The terrorists would've been dead before they even reached the cabin. They wouldn't have even been able to get into the cabins for that matter. And the people carrying the guns (i.e Air Marshalls) are trained extensively to handle the types of threats on airplanes. If someone were to pull ANY device and threaten a passenger, they'd have a bullet between their eyes before they knew what happened next.
Running some numbers, I'm reluctant to post, unless our FA flies out of a "gateway" airport, our numbers are less than 90%. If he/she flies out of a "gateway" that number shold be 100% based on the TSA website.
I earned my SEL Private ticket 24 years ago, so I too have some experience with aviation.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/2991048
Running some numbers, I'm reluctant to post, unless our FA flies out of a "gateway" airport, our numbers are less than 90%. If he/she flies out of a "gateway" that number shold be 100% based on the TSA website.
I earned my SEL Private ticket 24 years ago, so I too have some experience with aviation.
Even without the Marshall's on the plane, the TSA has tightened their security regarding the cockpit's since 9-11. Once a plane is in the air, it would be very difficult for someone to compromise a cockpit. Add the tightened security at the gates -- checking shoes, no liquids more than 3 oz. (or is it 1?), no sharp devices - fingernail clippers, scissors, etc. terrorists would have to come up with something quite innovative to take down a plane. Can it still be done? With today's technology, sure. But I'm personally not concerned when I fly today.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2991046
Sure you do

I might know a person or 3 that have been killed by gun violence during 2 robberies and trying to stop a man from playing hand ball with his girlfriend head.
*Edit*
Opps i forgot my cousin , shot dead while asking for directions.
Well i guess you should contact the Illinois Sheriff Association then because they seem to think its a good idea to allow C&C .http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/Bill...7&SessionID=76
Triple the crime rate huh? Thats what they said about Gun Town USA ...Google it and see what facts you find out.
Yup.I would say the odds of the lunatic killing the minister go down significantly.
You have your ideologies, I have mine. Nothing I say to you would convince you differently. Shoot, just do what reefraff does and carry a gun anyways. Apparently his detective buddy says it's OK to do.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2991028
Now there's a statement from a good ole' boy NRA card holder. So do you also avoid any restaurant that allows smoking? You're more likely to die from second-hand smoke in an establishment that you are from a gunshot wound. You are one paranoid individual.
Does anything in houston even allow smoking in it? I don't even think you can smoke in a bowling alley any more.
But it has very little to do with safely. Just not going to support an organization that buys into the idea that "gun free" is safe.

 

[oscardeuce]

Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/2991029
Would winning a National high power event, and 4 State Championships in small bore count as "proficient"?
Bionic,
I'm waiting on your answer.
Still waiting.......

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/2991101
Still waiting.......
What are you talking about? Are you saying you have these honors? If so, congratulations. But again, pointing a gun at a stationary, or even moving target is completely different from aiming and shooting a breathing human being. Especially if that person is shooting back. Any of your targets in your small bore competitions ever shoot back at you? Go play paint ball sometime and see how 'proficient' you are. Yea, the guns aren't as accurate, but it'll give you an idea of what you'd be facing if that paint ball gun was a real one.
Better yet, check with your local authorities and see if they allow CWP holders to go through their Gun Simulation program. My buddy who used to teach the class said the SAPD was allowing accredited CWP holders to come to their police academy and go through their simulator. They have the 'range' that you walk through with the pop-out targets. They also have the virtual one with the video where you carry an actual gun with a special laser attachment that you shoot at a screen that has various attack scenarios on it. He said it's a real eye opener. Don't know if they do it anymore though.

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2991180
What are you talking about? Are you saying you have these honors? If so, congratulations. But again, pointing a gun at a stationary, or even moving target is completely different from aiming and shooting a breathing human being. Especially if that person is shooting back. Any of your targets in your small bore competitions ever shoot back at you? Go play paint ball sometime and see how 'proficient' you are. Yea, the guns aren't as accurate, but it'll give you an idea of what you'd be facing if that paint ball gun was a real one.
Better yet, check with your local authorities and see if they allow CWP holders to go through their Gun Simulation program. My buddy who used to teach the class said the SAPD was allowing accredited CWP holders to come to their police academy and go through their simulator. They have the 'range' that you walk through with the pop-out targets. They also have the virtual one with the video where you carry an actual gun with a special laser attachment that you shoot at a screen that has various attack scenarios on it. He said it's a real eye opener. Don't know if they do it anymore though.
I like that virtual simulator where a virtual assailant is firing his weapon at you and all you have is a tree to stand behind and a bullhorn for reasoning.

"Stop Please!" "Please Refrain From Firing On Me....Its Against The Law!!!"

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2991031
Ah, hear it comes out. So you were in the middle of a road rage incident, and you pulled out an ILLEGAL weapon from under your seat to show you had the capability of 'blowin' their heads off'. And you're telling me some detective friend of yours said this was the right thing to do?

He should have confiscated your gun and arrested you on the spot. Had you used that weapon against those idiots, you'd be writing your response from a jail cell. YOU HAVE NO LEGAL RIGHT TO CARRY A WEAPON IN YOUR VEHICLE. You may transport that weapon to and from your primary residence if you are taking it to a gun shop or shooting range, but it has to be unloaded, and should be in the trunk of your car. You better pray you never get pulled over and the cop has a reason to search your car or happens to see that gun. Trust me, I know this from experience. I don't know the laws in Arizona, but I imagine they are similar to the one's in Texas. Better keep a record of your closest 6 friends. Pull a stunt like that again, you'll need them.
Once again spouting off about things you know nothing about. Perfectly legal to carry a gun in your car in Arizona. You also might want to look up the definition of road rage. This had nothing to do with driving aggressively, someone took offense to what amounted to a bumper sticker on my car and started acting the fool. And the friend who was just a patrol officer at the time just said I should have gotten a plate and reported the incident.
Knowing the laws in the state where you reside makes things much easier. For instance when I lived in Montana one of my clients was the Sheriffs office. I overheard the deputy that worked the desk tell two different people that they didn't need a CWP if they were carrying the gun in their car as long as they were going to be in a situation where they might need the gun. Did a little checking and it turns out most states have the same rule on that. Heading to and from a gun range, back country hiking or just heading out to a buddies property where you could do a little plinking are acceptable reasons for the gun being in the car.
You wanna act like a scared rabbit and be a victim good luck, I for one wont take crap off some punk. If someone cuts me off in traffic or flips me the bird am I going to shoot them or wave the gun at them? Of course not (there goes that common sense thing again) but I wouldn't suggest trying to ram my truck or car jack me.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2991306
Once again spouting off about things you know nothing about. Perfectly legal to carry a gun in your car in Arizona. You also might want to look up the definition of road rage. This had nothing to do with driving aggressively, someone took offense to what amounted to a bumper sticker on my car and started acting the fool. And the friend who was just a patrol officer at the time just said I should have gotten a plate and reported the incident.
Knowing the laws in the state where you reside makes things much easier. For instance when I lived in Montana one of my clients was the Sheriffs office. I overheard the deputy that worked the desk tell two different people that they didn't need a CWP if they were carrying the gun in their car as long as they were going to be in a situation where they might need the gun. Did a little checking and it turns out most states have the same rule on that. Heading to and from a gun range, back country hiking or just heading out to a buddies property where you could do a little plinking are acceptable reasons for the gun being in the car.
You wanna act like a scared rabbit and be a victim good luck, I for one wont take crap off some punk. If someone cuts me off in traffic or flips me the bird am I going to shoot them or wave the gun at them? Of course not (there goes that common sense thing again) but I wouldn't suggest trying to ram my truck or car jack me.

No, I do know what I'm talking about. You just choose to ignore it. Not road rage? What do you call it? Were you or were you not in a moving vehicle at the time of the confrontation? If the answer is yes, then it's road rage. I guess you think unless it has to do with someone cutting you off, or flipping you the bird, you don't consider it road rage. Go look it up or ask your detective buddy.
You're actually telling me it's legal to carry a LOADED weapon in your vehicle in Arizona? Where exactly do you store this weapon? Is it in plain site, in a glove box, under a seat? If it's not in plain site, it's considerd a CONCEALED WEAPON. That' requires a CWP if applicable in the state you live in. Show me the Arizona statute where it says that you can carry a loaded weapon hidden in your car.
You are a fool if you think you wouldn't be prosecuted for murder or assault if you shot someone with that weapon while you had it in your car. I don't care what the situation was - car jacking, ramming your car, road rage, pick one. You have no legal right to use deadly force against someone while in your vehicle. I don't care if it's a gun, or your actual car. If you think you do, then just go right ahead and try it. After it happens, people here will be going " Where's reefraff? He hasn't been online in ages?" Why? Because reefraff is in prison, and they give him little or no access to the internet. Please oh please show me the Arizona statute that states you have the right to shoot someone with a firearm while traveling in your vehicle if the situation were to arise. And don't give me the "Well if I was being carjacked, and I shot the guy, no sane DA or judge would prosecute me." You can't possibly be that naive.

 

[bionicarm]

Road rage (also road violence) is the informal name for deliberately dangerous and/or violent behaviour under the influence of heightened, violent emotion such as anger and frustration, involving an automobile in use.
This can involve deliberately hitting another person, vehicle or object with his/her own vehicle and/or firing a weapon from it. Other possibilities include hitting the person or vehicle with an item which is not his vehicle (e.g. using a golf stick), but which ultimately hits another person or vehicle.
Getting out of one's vehicle to another person's vehicle and banging, knocking on the windows, and yelling insults, is another form of road rage.
road rage
Function: noun
: a motorist's uncontrolled anger that is usually provoked by another motorist's irritating act and is expressed in aggressive or violent behavior
road rage
Noun
aggressive behaviour by a motorist in response to the actions of another road user
Show me in ANY of these defintions where it expressly states 'aggressive driving' is the defintion of road eage.