110 gal Mixed Reef Build. 180 gal System

acrylic51

Active Member
Your back siphon could be adjusted to minimize back flow to the sump......Increasing the height of the stand might be my last option.....Only cause I feel would be the more labor intensive route.....I would be more in favor of widening the stand to accommodate a wider sump. Possibly an easier option adding width on the back of the stand.....
 

lubeck

Active Member
I really don't want to modify the stand. With that, do you think I could get away with only haveing a 33 gal sump pushing nearly 2000 gph?
 

acrylic51

Active Member
It's possible, but would really have to look at your baffle layout and how the water enters the sump closely.....The key is going to be eliminating any of the micro bubbles asap so they don't get carried through to the return pump......I'm quite sure the pump is going to get dialed back almost 1/2........Anyway of doing a split sump.....Any shots of the inside of the stand.......
 

lubeck

Active Member
I can get some pics later. Not sure about the pump being dialed back by 1/2? What are your thoughts ? I have a diagram of the sump design I want to use which actually splits the fuge and the skimmer left and right. I will use a T from the return to feed the fuge make sense? I'm at work but I do have a sketch I took from "uncle " from RC.
I'm actually considering biting the bullet and going to look at neptune aquatics because they build their stands really tall and that way I could keep the 55.
 

lubeck

Active Member
Well I called the lfs and buying an oversized stand from them is out of the question, they want $1400 for what I need. My last resort is going to lowes and pricing out some lumber. If I can keep it under $200 or so I will build. The dimensions I'm thinking are 65"x36"x42" tall.
Here is the setup for the fuge. If I decide to build my own stand I will prob go with a 75 gal wide sump

 

acrylic51

Active Member
I think it can be done.....$200.00 might be pushing it, but close depending how fancy you want to get with the stand.....Only change I'd make is bumping the height of the skimmer chamber to 10"......
 

lubeck

Active Member
I need to tell my wife $200, I know it will be closer to $400 :-o. I went and did some pricing. I would like to make the stand 72x36x42 tall. Any idea on what that would look like? I need almost all 42" inside the tank. It would be cheaper to use the 60" boards or buy 10 footers but if I get an extra foot I can accommodate electric now and a calcium reactor down the road.
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
42" tall is pretty tall! My old stand for my 20g was 42" tall, and I felt like it was excessive. I always had to stand to view the tank. None of my chairs went up that high were I could just lay back and view it. My new stand I built purposefully at 30" tall. One foot lower made all the difference to me.
I don't have a whole lot of room underneath my stand, but I definitely have room for my calcium reactor and 5lb CO2 cylinder and other junk that I probably don't need right now.
I think you could save some money by building your stand just 36" tall... that's three feet tall - you could use one 2x4x8 per two legs in that case. Depending on the look you want, traditional or whatever, you can do it for relatively cheap. Look at ADA style stands - and look how simple their stands are. Something like that can be done relatively cheaply.
With your tank only being a 110g, building the stand strong enough where you don't have to have a middle brace is pretty easy. Just build it out of 2x6's. I'd take a planer to them and I'd also rip the sides with a table saw to get rid of the rounded edges... a pocket hole kit would allow you to make all of your screw connections on the inside of the stand. Premium pine takes a really nice stain, if you treat the pine right while your working with it and sand it smooth.
If done right, you can build your stand with 72x36x36 for roughly $200-250 if you have the skills and already have a few tools.
Are you making the tank rim recessed?
 

lubeck

Active Member
Thanks Seth. What does rim recessed mean? I'm not sure if 36" will be enough but prob if I def get a 75 gal wide and get rid of the 55 gal, which is too tall for me to do anything with my skimmer.
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Think about the display tank, not the equipment at this point. What height would be more comfortable viewing? I usually like to take a tape measurer and sit in my favorite chair and sort of play with where I would like the tanks bottom rim to sit while I am sitting. 30" was plenty tall enough for me. Though, my skimmer is only 22".
It's hard to describe what a recessed rim looks like, so I hope to find a picture of it.
This is as good as I could do at almost midnight.

You see where the top of the stand has some wood overlapping the bottom rim? It's kind of like that.
 

acrylic51

Active Member
Stand height really depends on the size of person owning the tank IMO.....If your short like me 42" isn't optimal.....Where if you tall even sitting it might be an enjoyable viewing height...Personally I'd go wide vs making it taller.....Also another thought if you build your own stand you might be able to gain a few inches depending how you lay the floor inside the stand itself.....Instead of laying the 2x4's on edge lay them flat. Also think about where the skimmer itself will fall inside the stand where your cross bracing will fall.....Possible to have the skimmer placed between the cross bracing allowing you to remove the collection cup and out of the sump.......Or is your real issue getting the cup to clear the sump and out of the stand.......
 

acrylic51

Active Member
Bob I was reading an older post of yours.... yes I'm serious about 1/2 way on the return pump buddy. I have mine closr to 3/4 open and I have some crazy runs of plumbing and restrict them a good bit, so 1/2 way would be my starting point and adjust from there.
As far as using the return to feed the fuge seems counter productive IMHO!!!!! I had originally set mine up that way, but isn't the purpose to feed the fuge "raw" water vs. "filtered" water. I scraped that designfor feeding directly from the overflow. Uncle can be argumentative at times and I steer clear of him or threads.
I might add some people don't understand why setups can take a bit of time! !!!!! :)
 

lubeck

Active Member
I hear you Shawn. It didn't make sense to me at first to feed the fuge filtered water but from experience I've seen my sump become a detris trap. If its true that a "real fuge" is to export nitrates and phosphates but NOT organic matter (that's what the skimmer is for) then feeding it water from the skimmer that is clean of some compounds and getting the right flow for the DSB then it does seems logical,no? I'm leaning towards not putting any lr in the fuge but only having macro and a DSb. I need to do more reading on the flow thru a DSb but it seems that its supposed to be high which shouldn't be a problem with my pump. Speaking of which, the bad boy came in today along with my three sanitary Tees for the bean overflow. This sucks because if my stand was big enough, or sump small enough, I could have plumbed the entire tank!!!! Witch would've meant water is next. I need to build a stand. I already put my stand and 55 gal on Craig's list for sale. Looks like already sold the 55. Anybody want to build a stand for me?



This pump is a beast by the way. I didn't know it was going to be that massive. Well constructed and I've read the water blasters are really quiet. I'm curious to know how deep they need to be so they don't suck air/siphon.
 

acrylic51

Active Member
Everything looks good.....Again just my logical thinking on the feeding the fuge.....In reality how much junk are you going to have being dumped into the fuge.....I understand if your leaving all your pumps running and it's being sucked into the overflow and so on, but realistically if you have a properly functioning fuge with DSB it shouldn't become a "sink hole".....Again even with a DSB and people might not want to believe there still has to be some maintenance done on it.
As far as the flow through the fuge/DSB your correct it isn't that slow trickle that most might believe or state.....There's a rather interesting thread I've been following over on RC pertaining just to this subject and goes a bit deeper into the aspects of what a BB tank is missing over a tank with a sand bed.....You are very correct in an earlier statement you made.....Anyone telling you that a ATS can run a system is misleading the pack.....A skimmer and a ATS serve different functions and remove different things, so something Corey and I had talked about months and months ago on this subject is proven somewhat true here lately that they can and should function together to achieve the best of both worlds.....
I don't see an issue with using the flow from the skimmer.....The only issue I might see is getting the water to the fuge, but I think you did outlay how your sump was going to be laid out.....I think I'm thinking of something else of you having to pump water up over a wall in your sump which I believe would be an issue with any skimmer unless it was elevated and gravity drained.....Anyways correct me if I'm wrong.....Using the skimmer output, you can always "up" the fuge flow with a simple powerhead or worse take a line from your manifold and use it for additional flow in the sump.....I don't feel that would be an issue it's more for flow, and trust me you'll have plenty of excess flow to bleed off somewhere......
 

lubeck

Active Member
I'm not sure I'm following you. I won't be using the flow from skimmer to feed the fuge, I'm using the return pump. As you mentioned I'm going to have to dial the return back quit a bit so I don't mind the awkward use of feeding the fuge.
What really could go wrong with that setup? What's the worse that could happen? Will the fuge really not get enough nutrients to do its job?
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Lubeck,
nothing wrong with that system.
Skimmers remove dissolved organics. Algae removes organic and inorganic nitrates and phosphates.
They do different jobs. Both very important.
Dsbs need a little flow, but so does the chaeto. Dsb's are pretty good for breaking down waste but also for keeping some nutrients in the system. Keep in mind that even in the wild, it is nutrient limited, not nutrient absent.
 

acrylic51

Active Member
My mistake Bob!!!! Agree with Seth that they do different jobs, although some might lead you to believe otherwise. I do believe the flow in that area should be a little more vigorous than a slow flow.
What are you planning to use for lighting for the fuge? I'm going LEDs and have a lead on a promising looking bulb.
 

sweatervest13

Active Member
I know I am a little late to the "stand is to short" party. But were you not thinking about doing a fish room??? If so, why not just plumb the tank into the fish room and build a basic stand to hold the sump without any height restrictions.
I had the exact same problem when I was setting up my 125g. I built the stand too short and I could not get the skimmer in and out easily. So I cut a small hole into a large closet next to the tank and just ran the plumbing lines to the new fish room. I built a stand (maybe cost $70, but I think more like $40.00) about 45" tall.


I know the first pic the stand might not look too tall but that is a 67g sump in there and I have all the room I would ever need to get things in and out without any problems.
Just a thought. The underneath of my DT stand is empty for all intents and purposes. Makes for some nice extra storage.
 

lubeck

Active Member
I've considered that scenario very seriously but there is really not enough room due to the washer and drier. My biggest concern is contaminating the sump since it wouldn't be protected from thing ls falling in it. Kitty liter, laundry , bleach. Bla bla bla. I know I will be using the laundry room for other reasons like top offs? Water changes, manifold ?, reactors.
 
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