Quote:
Originally Posted by
Darthtang AW http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/120#post_3504435
Ok, lets try it a different angle and maybe you will understand. cars have a useful purpose. guns have a useful purpose. Now in order for cars to serve their useful purpose they do not need to travel any faster than 75 mph. The exception being law enforcement. How many high speed chaces would this reduce? How many injuries and deaths do high speed chases cause daily in this country? Cars driven by those under the influence of alcohol are highly dangerous and proven to kill more than any other act of man. Shouldn't all cars be fitted with interlocks at the time of purchase? Your shotgun and "hand guns" are your average use cars. The ar platforms are your cars that have the horse power to exceed 75 MPH. What logical reason does anyone have to own a car that can go this fast?
I can pull up statistics that drunk driving and cars driving at high speeds cause more deaths in this country than firearms daily. Compare that to deaths by "assault" weapons and it is night and day. BUT NO ONE EVER calls for these safety measures. Why is that?
Now lets compare columbine to this. Columbine occurred during the assault weapons ban that used to be in place.
The weapons used are as followed..
Dylan -- Intratec TEC-DC9 (9-mm semi-automatic handgun) attached to a strap slung over his shoulder (under coat), Savage 311-D 12-gauge double-barrel shotgun (barrel sawed down to approximately 23 inches, initially half-hidden in Dylan's cargos).
Eric -- 10-shot Hi-Point model 995 carbine rifle on a strap (under coat), Savage-Springfield 67H 12-gauge pump shotgun he called 'Arlene' (named after a Doom character - initially in one of the duffels carried to the top of the grassy knoll -- stock and barrel sawed off, reducing the entire gun to 26 inches).
Dylan --
9mm rounds fired:
outside the school: 3, inside the school: 31, library: 21
(total 55)
Shotgun rounds fired:
outside the school: 2, inside the school: 4, library: 6
(total 12)
Total rounds fired: 67
Eric --
9mm rounds fired:
outside the school: 47, inside the school: 36, library: 13
(total 96)
Shotgun rounds fired:
inside the school: 4, Library: 21
(total 25)
Total rounds fired: 121
But wait, there were home made bombs as well....
48 -- Carbon Dioxide bombs
27 -- Pipe bombs
11 -- 1.5 gallon propane bombs
7 -- gas or napalm bombs
2 -- 20 pound propane bombs
As well as a total of 7 knives which they never used....
Only two shots can be fired from a double-barreled shotgun before the shooter must reload by breaking the barrel open, manually inserting two new rounds, and closing the gun. A pump shotgun can be fired as fast as the gunman can pump and shoot. It shoots much faster than the double-barreled type because spent shells are ejected and a live shell manually slides into place. A gunman can shoot five rounds with the pump shotgun before the weapon must be reloaded.
Now I have two questions for those that support the "assault" weapons ban. Were these two not able to create as much chaos and murder without assault weapons?
The other question...why no cry for interlock devices on all vehicles and governors limiting our speed?
Answer those two questions and I will honestly say, you have a leg to stand on. If not...you are basing all your judgement strictly off emotion and not sound logic. After all, the end goal is saving lives, is it not?
Darth, you car analogy doesn't hold water. Yes they can cause as many deaths as an assault rifle, but they are used 100,000 more times per day than somerone who would shoot someone with an AR-15. How many millions of cars travel daily in virtually every town in America? How often do gun owners shoot their AR's? I have several friends that own one. I was at a party with one of those individuals this weekend, and I was asking him the last time he went to the shooting range. He hadn't been in 3 months. However, he uses his car every single day, and has a 20 mile one-way commute to work. So simple math and statistics would show that he would be 100,000 times more vulnerable of getting smacked by some DUI driver, or some Speed Racer driving 100 in a 70, than he would be of getting shot by some maniac popping cars with his AR on an overpass. Like I said, do the simple math. Take the number of hours some gun owner shoots his AR in a months time frame, and divide that by the number of AR's that are currently owned. Now take the number of hours every single car in America is driven in a months timeframe, and divide that buy the number of registered vehicles in this country. See which percentage is lower. That's why cars are more apt to cause deaths than an AR.
As far as your Columbine scenario? Who knows. How many of those kids could've escaped while they were reloading those shotguns? I shoot my Remington 1100 all the time at skeet, it holds up to three shells. For me to grab 3 shells from a table, load them into the gun, then cock one into the chamber takes about 1 1/2 minutes, maybe 1 minute if I really want to go fast. I'm also not having to keep constant lookout for the possibility of something getting thrown at me, or someone trying to take me down in the process. My vision is focused on getting the shells in, and insuring that the first shell gets loaded into the barrel properly while I'm performing this procedure. Perfect opportunity for several of those victims to run out. Maybe even enough time for some brave soul to try and tackle the guy before he has the opportunity to get it reloaded. Then there's the distance factor. Unless you're using buckshot, the effective range of a shotgun is what, 30 yards? Even then you'd probably only get hit with enough BB's that wouldn't cause fatal damage. An AR on the other hand, I can kick out, load a new 30-round clip, and "cock" that weapon in about 10 seconds. My range is 150 - 200 yards with a high mortality rate depending on where I hit my target. The same can be said with a 9mm handgun. The fatal disatnce is at least twice as far as a shotgun's. You can shoot 3 times more bullets in one load than you can a shotgun. Takes the same 10 seconds or less to reload a 9mm. Don't factor in all the bombs and crap. This guy in Connecticut didn't have those devices (as far as we know). Simple math and plain statistics states you'd have a higher survival rate with someone who just had shotgun's as opposed to someone who had a variety of semi-auto weapons at their disposal in either of these school scenarios's. You can try justifying your rationale all you want, but if you have an inkling of knowledge about these weapons and their capabilities, then you know I'm right.
