415 Gallon Plywood Tank Build
- Thread starter acrylic51
- Start date
al mc
Active Member
Just catching up on your build....very nice. If you have not already worked out your humidity/heat question you might consider using one of those portable A/C units and venting outside...similar to dryer vent. It should keep the fish room cool and dehumidified at the same time.
acrylic51
Active Member
Thanks Al.......I have thought about using the portable A/C units. I already have the vent line in place running outside so it would be a simple hook up at this point. Has you or anyone use a portable A/C unit? How well do they cool. My dad has one that he just tossed to the side, and all he said it didn't cool enough, but not really sure what my dad was expecting
.
Haven't done any work as I had hoped.....Friday morning my 12yr old Rotty passed away, and just can't seem to concentrate on much in the fish room. The house just seems so quiet not having her here romping around with my 2yr old granddaughter
Now there isn't anyone to lay in the middle of the fish room and look at me stupidly. It's just amazing the little things we take for granted!!!!
Haven't done any work as I had hoped.....Friday morning my 12yr old Rotty passed away, and just can't seem to concentrate on much in the fish room. The house just seems so quiet not having her here romping around with my 2yr old granddaughter
al mc
Active Member
Sorry for your loss. While it is of little help...I would tell you as a client that you guys did very well to get a Rottie to 12 years.
I have used a portable as a supplemental system to our central A/C in our grooming area that can get very warm with several dryers going. I think it would work in your application fairly well since you are worried about both heat and humidity.
I have used a portable as a supplemental system to our central A/C in our grooming area that can get very warm with several dryers going. I think it would work in your application fairly well since you are worried about both heat and humidity.
scsinet
Active Member
Originally Posted by acrylic51
http:///forum/post/3274195
Thanks Al.......I have thought about using the portable A/C units. I already have the vent line in place running outside so it would be a simple hook up at this point. Has you or anyone use a portable A/C unit? How well do they cool. My dad has one that he just tossed to the side, and all he said it didn't cool enough, but not really sure what my dad was expecting
.
Most portable AC units draw their condensing air from the room being cooled, which makes them incredibly inefficient. I've also found that most units don't last too long when in continuous service... we used them in our IT rooms quite a bit and were replacing them pretty regularly until I finally gave in and started putting in mini-splits.
Honestly if you want HVAC in the room, I'd look into a mini-split, especially if your fish room is on an outside wall. Installation should be a snap, a 120v 9000BTU system will be plenty, and they are leaps and bounds more efficient than portables.
Airconditioner dot com has a inexpensive 9000 BTU heat pump minisplit for $500, about what a portable costs. Install it yourself and get someone you know to hook up the refrigerant lines for you, or hire a company if you don't know anyone, or do it yourself if you know your way around refrigerants. By the time you pay shipping, a company do the refrigerant, and buy a line set, you're probably looking at $1000 total for everything... that extra $500 is made up in no time in saved electrical.
http:///forum/post/3274195
Thanks Al.......I have thought about using the portable A/C units. I already have the vent line in place running outside so it would be a simple hook up at this point. Has you or anyone use a portable A/C unit? How well do they cool. My dad has one that he just tossed to the side, and all he said it didn't cool enough, but not really sure what my dad was expecting
Most portable AC units draw their condensing air from the room being cooled, which makes them incredibly inefficient. I've also found that most units don't last too long when in continuous service... we used them in our IT rooms quite a bit and were replacing them pretty regularly until I finally gave in and started putting in mini-splits.
Honestly if you want HVAC in the room, I'd look into a mini-split, especially if your fish room is on an outside wall. Installation should be a snap, a 120v 9000BTU system will be plenty, and they are leaps and bounds more efficient than portables.
Airconditioner dot com has a inexpensive 9000 BTU heat pump minisplit for $500, about what a portable costs. Install it yourself and get someone you know to hook up the refrigerant lines for you, or hire a company if you don't know anyone, or do it yourself if you know your way around refrigerants. By the time you pay shipping, a company do the refrigerant, and buy a line set, you're probably looking at $1000 total for everything... that extra $500 is made up in no time in saved electrical.
acrylic51
Active Member
Thanks guys......I have looked at mini splits, but was trying to avoid the added expense, since the wife is actually keeping track on this build....
Do the portable A/C units draw their air from the front or back of the units. I'm interested because like I said my dad has one just sitting around, and I've seen them used, but people not actually venting them outside the room?? The tank area is extremely cool to begin with.....were hitting in the 90's the past couple days and even with the A/C vents shut off to the area down there the temp still hasn't gotten above 70. So I guess my big concern is actually humidity??? Would it be wise to run a line off the main trunk actually into the fish room?
acrylic51
Active Member
Originally Posted by Al Mc
http:///forum/post/3274229
Sorry for your loss. While it is of little help...I would tell you as a client that you guys did very well to get a Rottie to 12 years.
Thanks....yeah was a big lug, and never at table foods. I've had a few dog in my years my 2nd Rottie, and none have just had the personality of her. She enjoy rides in the cop cars.
http:///forum/post/3274229
Sorry for your loss. While it is of little help...I would tell you as a client that you guys did very well to get a Rottie to 12 years.
Thanks....yeah was a big lug, and never at table foods. I've had a few dog in my years my 2nd Rottie, and none have just had the personality of her. She enjoy rides in the cop cars.
scsinet
Active Member
The intake's location depends on the unit.
The majority of portables are built this way now but not all of them... I think the reason they do this is to allow the unit to get rid of it's own condensate without you having to empty the bucket. So... it could be possible to baffle around it and put another hose from the outside, but I'm not sure what that would do to the unit's operation otherwise.
The majority of portables are built this way now but not all of them... I think the reason they do this is to allow the unit to get rid of it's own condensate without you having to empty the bucket. So... it could be possible to baffle around it and put another hose from the outside, but I'm not sure what that would do to the unit's operation otherwise.
acrylic51
Active Member
Just a quick update....I was hoping for a very productive long weekend, but we know how that goes...I had to finish my "honey do list" or I would have gotten the evil eye working on fish tank stuff.......
Worked a bit more on the drywall in the fishroom. Got the ceiling drywall all installed and taped and mudded. Hopefully tomorrow morning I'll hit it quick again and see how it looks. Still haven't decided if I want to go with regular bath room fan or another style exhaust fan for the room? The drywall is installed and taped and just put first coat of mud on.
While waiting for mud to dry I picked up on the skin for the stand and did alittle more work on the doors. I installed the hinges and made a dry run on installing them to the skin itself. I used European style hinges since I wanted a relatively clean look with minimal hardware showing.....Haven't decided if the doors will have handles or go with finger recess for the openings. What do you guys think??????
Here's a couple pics of the door and stand skin work.
While waiting for mud to dry I picked up on the skin for the stand and did alittle more work on the doors. I installed the hinges and made a dry run on installing them to the skin itself. I used European style hinges since I wanted a relatively clean look with minimal hardware showing.....Haven't decided if the doors will have handles or go with finger recess for the openings. What do you guys think??????
acrylic51
Active Member
In a earlier post I had talked about working on my moveable light rack....I couldn't find the pic of the rollers I used for the light track, but here are a couple more pics of the light rack. Need to put a couple more coats of poly and steel wool it down between coats, before I'm happy with them. You will also see in 1 of the pics that the rollers just barely fit inside the aluminum frame. On the top of the roller assembly you can see studs with little balls on the end. What my plans are is to get aluminum rod and cut them to the length I need and then thread the ends to screw into the roller assemblies.
acrylic51
Active Member
Need everyones opinion....
I had talked earlier as well in this thread about making a work table/stand inside the fishroom. The table/stand will be an area to hold "junk" run my water tests and such, and also would serve as a stand for my quarantine tank, and future frag tank, and underneath I would be able to store my salt, water change vats and misc stuff. My buddy has some extra counter tops from a recent job, and he has more than what I need, just I'm not sure if I'm sold on he color????? It's free so I guess I shouldn't be picky??? What do you guys think?????
jchase1970
Member
If you are going to use GFIC then use receptacles, not 1 breaker. And you have to have a ground probe in the water column somewhere also.
What GFIC devices do is the monitor the current going out on the hot terminal and the current coming back on the neutral terminal. Code say they have to trip with a variance of 7ma I think. With out a ground probe you wont ever get a variance because the tank and water are not grounded and thus no other path is available for the current to flow.
When will it trip, if water splashes on the receptacle and causes a spark. If something is leaking current and not grounded and you touch it assuming you are grounded.
When it will not trip, if you have no ground probe in the water column and any device fails like a broken heater for example. It will have stray current introduces to the conductive saltwater but the current will never find another path to ground so it wont trip. GFIC will not trip because of overloaded circuits.
This is why we say GFIC are for personal safety, normally when there is a broken device in your tank you discover it by sticking you hand in there and completing the path to ground though your body.
Why not use a GFIC breaker, If something slashes on a receptacle and cause the GFIC to trip it will shut everything on the circuit off. A splash by the way is called a nuisance trip this can also be cause by motors starting, compressor motors have a issue, refrigerator are prone to tripping GFIC circuits when starting and are normally not on the GFIC protection. Chillers may also cause this. So If you have a nuisance trip, a trip whereby you were not involved, and it shuts off the breaker and everything is shut off and you are gone, what happens to the stuff in the tank once they run out of air?
How to avoid this,
Using GFIC receptacles for each receptacle, why does this make a difference? If you have your pump in one outlet and your heater in another out let and you light in another outlet and so on and so forth, if you are not home and you have a nuisance trip say on the heater receptacle then everything else stays on, like say YOUR PUMP.
Does everything have to be protected, or should everything be protected. Everything in the water should be protected for your safety. So submersible pumps, heaters, skimmers. Anything that you have to change something on that is near the water, lights, you don't want to be changing a bulb and being caught off guard that there is a stray current and get a shock and it surprises you and you drop a bulb and it hits the side of the tank and breaks, you might have just poisoned your fish with mercury.
What can be safe with out being on a GFIC. OK, this is the only thing I suggest not being n a GFIC. My external pump. But does this mean all external pumps are safe no, why do I think mine is ok. My pump is all in a all plastic housing, The only way water could get to anything electrical on the pump would be thought the back of the pump and it would have to be poured on the pump. I would notice a problem with a flood way before this would ever happen.
But you say what if the pump shorts out? That will trip the breaker and shut the circuit off. What if you have a water line break and spray the pump, I have no water lines on the back side of the pump, and if it sprayed across the pump hard enough to somehow get into the pumps electrical connection box it would be a flood all over my floor.
So to avoid a nuisance trip on my pump and me not being aware of it until it is to late to reset the GFIC, I didn't install the pump on a GFIC.
Would I ever install the pump on a GFIC. As a electrician I have to be safe and if the pump has a metal case then that could become energized and therefor it needs to be GFICed. But provide a GFIC receptacle in a location that it is not likely to get splashes on it and not shared with any other equipment. You can install in use water proof bubble covers on this outlet to avoid the splashes.
What GFIC devices do is the monitor the current going out on the hot terminal and the current coming back on the neutral terminal. Code say they have to trip with a variance of 7ma I think. With out a ground probe you wont ever get a variance because the tank and water are not grounded and thus no other path is available for the current to flow.
When will it trip, if water splashes on the receptacle and causes a spark. If something is leaking current and not grounded and you touch it assuming you are grounded.
When it will not trip, if you have no ground probe in the water column and any device fails like a broken heater for example. It will have stray current introduces to the conductive saltwater but the current will never find another path to ground so it wont trip. GFIC will not trip because of overloaded circuits.
This is why we say GFIC are for personal safety, normally when there is a broken device in your tank you discover it by sticking you hand in there and completing the path to ground though your body.
Why not use a GFIC breaker, If something slashes on a receptacle and cause the GFIC to trip it will shut everything on the circuit off. A splash by the way is called a nuisance trip this can also be cause by motors starting, compressor motors have a issue, refrigerator are prone to tripping GFIC circuits when starting and are normally not on the GFIC protection. Chillers may also cause this. So If you have a nuisance trip, a trip whereby you were not involved, and it shuts off the breaker and everything is shut off and you are gone, what happens to the stuff in the tank once they run out of air?
How to avoid this,
Using GFIC receptacles for each receptacle, why does this make a difference? If you have your pump in one outlet and your heater in another out let and you light in another outlet and so on and so forth, if you are not home and you have a nuisance trip say on the heater receptacle then everything else stays on, like say YOUR PUMP.
Does everything have to be protected, or should everything be protected. Everything in the water should be protected for your safety. So submersible pumps, heaters, skimmers. Anything that you have to change something on that is near the water, lights, you don't want to be changing a bulb and being caught off guard that there is a stray current and get a shock and it surprises you and you drop a bulb and it hits the side of the tank and breaks, you might have just poisoned your fish with mercury.
What can be safe with out being on a GFIC. OK, this is the only thing I suggest not being n a GFIC. My external pump. But does this mean all external pumps are safe no, why do I think mine is ok. My pump is all in a all plastic housing, The only way water could get to anything electrical on the pump would be thought the back of the pump and it would have to be poured on the pump. I would notice a problem with a flood way before this would ever happen.
But you say what if the pump shorts out? That will trip the breaker and shut the circuit off. What if you have a water line break and spray the pump, I have no water lines on the back side of the pump, and if it sprayed across the pump hard enough to somehow get into the pumps electrical connection box it would be a flood all over my floor.
So to avoid a nuisance trip on my pump and me not being aware of it until it is to late to reset the GFIC, I didn't install the pump on a GFIC.
Would I ever install the pump on a GFIC. As a electrician I have to be safe and if the pump has a metal case then that could become energized and therefor it needs to be GFICed. But provide a GFIC receptacle in a location that it is not likely to get splashes on it and not shared with any other equipment. You can install in use water proof bubble covers on this outlet to avoid the splashes.
2quills
Well-Known Member
I've never known a certified electrician to install more than one GFCI per circuit. If you want them all protected then just install one GFCI as the first outlet in the circuit. Better yet install a GFCI Breaker, they are LESS likely to cause false trips.
I would not run my pumps on a GFCI outlet or breaker though because yes, motorized equipment can be the cause of many false trips just like the compressor on a refrigerator. If water splashes on an outlet or a heater cracks in a tank with a standard breaker would it not trip also? Is that not what breakers are used for, to help prevent fires?
If you're that concerned about water splashing on your outlets then sure, get the outdoor style box that has a plastic cover.
Grounding probe, ofcorse, why not? But they do not need to be on GFCI as long as the curcuit is properly grounded like all circuits SHOULD be to begin with.
Sorry I haven't caught this thread ealier, great build you've got going on here.
I would not run my pumps on a GFCI outlet or breaker though because yes, motorized equipment can be the cause of many false trips just like the compressor on a refrigerator. If water splashes on an outlet or a heater cracks in a tank with a standard breaker would it not trip also? Is that not what breakers are used for, to help prevent fires?
If you're that concerned about water splashing on your outlets then sure, get the outdoor style box that has a plastic cover.
Grounding probe, ofcorse, why not? But they do not need to be on GFCI as long as the curcuit is properly grounded like all circuits SHOULD be to begin with.
Sorry I haven't caught this thread ealier, great build you've got going on here.
jchase1970
Member
if you have something plugged into them and it falls into the tank it will shut the device off, be it a light fixture, a hand held tool, ect. What is your intentions for the outlets located up that high?