Auto Bailot Just Failed!

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by KOgle
http:///forum/post/2873832
I would also like to point out this is the problem with our gov't.
There are a lot of problems with out government. I think this is important. Second they figured out they could bribe us with our own money. Third democracy doesn't properly reward politicians for doing what is right.

 

[reefraff]

What gets me is the union thug gets on national tv and lies through his teeth and nobody calls him on it.
He claimed the 44.00 an hour labor cost for the import manufacturers didnt include benefits which the Japanese government paid health and pensions. That is a lie, we are talking US workers here and the Japanese govt. doesn't pay squat.

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2873766
Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2873742
because "supposedly" less taxes increases tax revenue, but there is no proof of this.
No proof? Come on, just look at the numbers? It has worked every time it was tried!
It didn't work this time, you should look at the numbers again.
It certainly can work in certain situations like deflation. It's not a cure all fix. Sometimes you just need to SPEND less.

 

[lovethesea]

I think I have a headache!
Seriously this whole thing enrages me. Banks that took bailouts are lending money to companies that layoff and outsource. Big 3 want $$$, but unions will continue to trick their workers into entitlement while the companies go under...or outsourse more jobs overseas. do you want a job or not?? Getting paid not to work can't be an option anymore with UAW. Again, our tax dollars being used to eliminate our jobs and outsourced overseas only for the product (car) to be sent back here???? Unexceptable practices.
Hopefully UAW workers are reading what could happen if they go bankrupt and not once again being hypnotized by UAW.
Do you know how many workers would be standing in line at these plants to apply for a $30+ hr plus benefits job? THOUSANDS per plant, probably including the thousands of white collar educated folks who are now out of a job because their jobs were outsourced or flat out eliminated by company consolidations and they have to have a career change mid life.
wheres the tylenol

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2873856
It didn't work this time, you should look at the numbers again.
It certainly can work in certain situations like deflation. It's not a cure all fix. Sometimes you just need to SPEND less.
There is a lot of reasons why it did in fact work this time. Over the past few years several times the IRS reported record months as far as dollars goes.
Second saying that means you don't understand what this whole problem stems from. Nor do you have a solid grasp on how factors effect the economy. You must understand there are several different things that factor into whatever shape out economy as a whole is in. And quite frankly not much can overcome the negative influences that Fanny and Freddy and the results of them removing risk from the housing moorgage market. Then turning around and selling "riskless" (to quote Barny Frank) securities. It is amazing we are where we are dispite all this happening.

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2873895
There is a lot of reasons why it did in fact work this time. Over the past few years several times the IRS reported record months as far as dollars goes.
Second saying that means you don't understand what this whole problem stems from. Nor do you have a solid grasp on how factors effect the economy. You must understand there are several different things that factor into whatever shape out economy as a whole is in. And quite frankly not much can overcome the negative influences that Fanny and Freddy and the results of them removing risk from the housing moorgage market. Then turning around and selling "riskless" (to quote Barny Frank) securities. It is amazing we are where we are dispite all this happening.
Please look at the deficit to understand that much of the increase in IRS revenues was, in fact, taxes on money the government borrowed from China and spent. If you borrow $100, spend it, and get $40 back, did you really increase your revenue? I strongly disagree that the extra money the IRS collected had anything to do with reducing taxes, sending out rebates, prebates or anything else other than borrow & spend economics.
I suppose if you live in a world where everything is black & white I might appear to be ignorant of what's happening with our economy.

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by lovethesea
http:///forum/post/2873887
I think I have a headache!
Seriously this whole thing enrages me. Banks that took bailouts are lending money to companies that layoff and outsource. Big 3 want $$$, but unions will continue to trick their workers into entitlement while the companies go under...or outsourse more jobs overseas. do you want a job or not?? Getting paid not to work can't be an option anymore with UAW. Again, our tax dollars being used to eliminate our jobs and outsourced overseas only for the product (car) to be sent back here???? Unexceptable practices.
Hopefully UAW workers are reading what could happen if they go bankrupt and not once again being hypnotized by UAW.
Do you know how many workers would be standing in line at these plants to apply for a $30+ hr plus benefits job? THOUSANDS per plant, probably including the thousands of white collar educated folks who are now out of a job because their jobs were outsourced or flat out eliminated by company consolidations and they have to have a career change mid life.
wheres the tylenol

Good post, sums everything up rather nicely IMO.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2873937
Please look at the deficit to understand that much of the increase in IRS revenues was, in fact, taxes on money the government borrowed from China and spent. If you borrow $100, spend it, and get $40 back, did you really increase your revenue? I strongly disagree that the extra money the IRS collected had anything to do with reducing taxes, sending out rebates, prebates or anything else other than borrow & spend economics.
I suppose if you live in a world where everything is black & white I might appear to be ignorant of what's happening with our economy.
oh are you going to trying and argue that the government expenditures to private business is what fueled the increased tax revenues?

 

[sickboy]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2873789
That is like saying prove to me gas makes a car go forward without the engine running.

That whole argument stems off of Tax cuts fuel a growing economy that in turn increases tax revenues. Fuel goes in a car you start the engine the car goes forward.
Tax cuts for whom?? I realize that a tax cut could fuel a growing economy in some instances, but there are also others where the economy booms despite tax increases, like the late 90's. The first Bush's tax increases killed his presidency, but it did the opposite to our economy, especially 4-6 years later. Also, if by cutting taxes you are putting yourself in even more debt it will not spur economic growth. If I get a tax cut at this point in time I am not going to spend it, it will go into the bank or my retirement account b/c I don't know if the economy will be good anytime soon. This will not stimulate the economy or increase tax revenue. If we weren't drowning in debt, yes cut everyone's taxes! But we are being swallowed by this debt and I don't think cutting taxes and hoping we can balance the budget sounds like a real good plan.
But, back to my original question: Where is the proof that cutting taxes is the causation to greater revenue? I'm not arguing that it doesn't work sometimes, because it appears to have a positive effect at times. At other times the economy does just fine no matter what the tax rate is. But where is the proof that cutting taxes is always the causation for increased revenue and not just correlation?

 

[miaheatlvr]

Originally Posted by T316
http:///forum/post/2873561
Where did miaheat go to.....start the thread, then disappear...

There is absolutely nothing, no point of view I could add that has not been expressed here,, By the way I had to be ON SET today and just got home.

 

[t316]

Originally Posted by MiaHeatLvr
http:///forum/post/2874156
There is absolutely nothing, no point of view I could add that has not been expressed here,, By the way I had to be ON SET today and just got home.

He's back.....3 pages later

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2873981
oh are you going to trying and argue that the government expenditures to private business is what fueled the increased tax revenues?

Add it up. The deficit increased during the time you say revenue increased. You say the IRS collected more money because of lower taxes, I say it's from a massive increase in government spending.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2874133
Tax cuts for whom?? I realize that a tax cut could fuel a growing economy in some instances, but there are also others where the economy booms despite tax increases, like the late 90's. The first Bush's tax increases killed his presidency, but it did the opposite to our economy, especially 4-6 years later. Also, if by cutting taxes you are putting yourself in even more debt it will not spur economic growth. If I get a tax cut at this point in time I am not going to spend it, it will go into the bank or my retirement account b/c I don't know if the economy will be good anytime soon. This will not stimulate the economy or increase tax revenue. If we weren't drowning in debt, yes cut everyone's taxes! But we are being swallowed by this debt and I don't think cutting taxes and hoping we can balance the budget sounds like a real good plan.
But, back to my original question: Where is the proof that cutting taxes is the causation to greater revenue? I'm not arguing that it doesn't work sometimes, because it appears to have a positive effect at times. At other times the economy does just fine no matter what the tax rate is. But where is the proof that cutting taxes is always the causation for increased revenue and not just correlation?
What more do you want, you can go back and look at any major tax cut over the last 70 years. And it is directly followed by massive increases in the government's coffers. W, Reagan, Kennedy... The list goes on.
In clinton's case in the 90's you saw massive growth linked to technology...
What I don't get is that you people are willing to accept the corrolation between the government giving money GM and it helping the "worker" but you aren't willing to accept GM keeping that money and it helping the "worker."

 

[t316]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2874266
What I don't get is that you people are willing to accept the corrolation between the government giving money GM and it helping the "worker" but you aren't willing to accept GM keeping that money and it helping the "worker."
You lost me there...elaborate...

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by T316
http:///forum/post/2874275
You lost me there...elaborate...
If you listen to a liberal explain why we should loan money to GM. You get oh this will hurt all kinds of people. And they go down the food chain to parts makers, shippers, dealers the average worker who loses his job..
This is the exact same argument supply side economics use for tax cuts. The only difference is, the government gives GM money. Vs in supply side economics GM keeps its own money to begin with.
The problem is First it removes risk, and allows GM to continue its bad business practices. Second it takes money out of my pocket who uses his money wisely and rewards someone who was foolish with his money. Third it is inefficient, think about this, how much money have we (the US government) spent debating this issue, collecting taxes, and funding the bureaucracy that doesn't need to exist in the first place. Fourth it erodes on the concepts that have made this country the financial power that it is.

 

[jpa0741]

I work for Ford. I am very disappointed in many people here. Alot of poeple take what they hear on tv and think it to be true. Know the facts before you talk sh-t. Yes they need to make changes and yes they have been in the last 10 years. I see it first hand. They have the tools in place to be profitable but won't until the economy turns around. Which in turn is the governments fault. The UNION IS NOT WHY THE BIG 3 ARE IN THIS POSITION. Some of this talk about lazy UAW workers is a bunch of bull and I take offense to it. We have and continue to give back for the good of the company. How many of you writing have not had a raise in 7 years. I am not going to sit and argue this all day. These are tough times for many many families and people need to have a little consideration when they run their mouth. We also need to support fellow Americans more then ever.

 

[t316]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2874287
If you listen to a liberal explain why we should loan money to GM. You get oh this will hurt all kinds of people. And they go down the food chain to parts makers, shippers, dealers the average worker who loses his job..
This is the exact same argument supply side economics use for tax cuts. The only difference is, the government gives GM money. Vs in supply side economics GM keeps its own money to begin with.
The problem is First it removes risk, and allows GM to continue its bad business practices. Second it takes money out of my pocket who uses his money wisely and rewards someone who was foolish with his money. Third it is inefficient, think about this, how much money have we (the US government) spent debating this issue, collecting taxes, and funding the bureaucracy that doesn't need to exist in the first place. Fourth it erodes on the concepts that have made this country the financial power that it is.
Okay, understood....

Originally Posted by jpa0741
http:///forum/post/2874308
I work for Ford. I am very disappointed in many people here. Alot of poeple take what they hear on tv and think it to be true. Know the facts before you talk sh-t. Yes they need to make changes and yes they have been in the last 10 years. I see it first hand. They have the tools in place to be profitable but won't until the economy turns around. Which in turn is the governments fault. The UNION IS NOT WHY THE BIG 3 ARE IN THIS POSITION. Some of this talk about lazy UAW workers is a bunch of bull and I take offense to it. We have and continue to give back for the good of the company. How many of you writing have not had a raise in 7 years. I am not going to sit and argue this all day. These are tough times for many many families and people need to have a little consideration when they run their mouth. We also need to support fellow Americans more then ever.

I say this is a pile of crap. I drive an F250 mind you, and have no problem supporting American made products. But you are talking from an insider position, and I am coming from the American masses that are tired of seeing Unions suck us dry for handouts. With all due respect, I fully believe that you are convinced that your co. is doing all good, as it is their job to convince you of that. But what you can't see (from the outside looking in) is that your co.'s Unions are brainwashing their robot employees into this mentality that puts $ into the top dog pockets and gives you guys the unrealistic false sense of security that if anything fails, the Gov. will bail us out. Well that part about the 'Gov. bailing us out' is ME....that's my tax, my future, and I ain't paying for it.

 

[jpa0741]

Originally Posted by T316
http:///forum/post/2874319
Okay, understood....

I say this is a pile of crap. I drive an F250 mind you, and have no problem supporting American made products. But you are talking from an insider position, and I am coming from the American masses that are tired of seeing Unions suck us dry for handouts. With all due respect, I fully believe that you are convinced that your co. is doing all good, as it is their job to convince you of that. But what you can't see (from the outside looking in) is that your co.'s Unions are brainwashing their robot employees into this mentality that puts $ into the top dog pockets and gives you guys the unrealistic false sense of security that if anything fails, the Gov. will bail us out. Well that part about the 'Gov. bailing us out' is ME....that's my tax, my future, and I ain't paying for it.

Now that is just a flat out insult. I am not ignorant. Changes are being made. That is a fact. How can you say robot employees. I would love to see you come do my skilled job for less the $20 an hour. I worked hard to learn my trade. And you will still pay with your tax when you are paying for unemployment.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by jpa0741
http:///forum/post/2874308
I work for Ford. I am very disappointed in many people here. Alot of poeple take what they hear on tv and think it to be true. Know the facts before you talk sh-t. Yes they need to make changes and yes they have been in the last 10 years. I see it first hand. They have the tools in place to be profitable but won't until the economy turns around. Which in turn is the governments fault. The UNION IS NOT WHY THE BIG 3 ARE IN THIS POSITION. Some of this talk about lazy UAW workers is a bunch of bull and I take offense to it. We have and continue to give back for the good of the company. How many of you writing have not had a raise in 7 years. I am not going to sit and argue this all day. These are tough times for many many families and people need to have a little consideration when they run their mouth. We also need to support fellow Americans more then ever.
Isn't ford one of those NOT wanting a bailout? Then of course your percpective is different. And be disappointed all you want, I have seen first hand how unions work, the reward time in/ position pay over merit/knowledge and sacrifice. I watched a union come into a company I worked at and had a few guys that did not have my knowledge or level of expertise, on top of that had 1/4 of my production suddenly get a raise in pay above my level, because they were there longer.
But ok, I will roll with what you are saying. Basically you are saying a forklift driver is justified in making 106,000 dollars a year including benefits. while a first year public defender only makes 65,000 with far more education.....Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh right.

 

[darthtang aw]

When a manual labor auto worker can make more than a nurses technician, there is a problem.