Building my 56 gallon Column reef tank

monsinour

Active Member
Water tests this morning.
80.1 degrees F
SG 1.0245
pH 7.9 (wasnt 7.8 and wasnt 8)
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20
So the nitrates are not going anywhere. I will be getting more water for a larger water change and do some vacuuming later this week and hope that helpls. I remeber reading somewhere that when your shrimp molt its either 1 or 2 things. Either the shrimp is stressed OR you have good water. My fire shrimp molted last night and he is happily in the same place he has always been. He is even coming out more now during the feedings. I would imagine he likes his new home.
With the ammonia not going up from adding the 2 clowns, what harm is there in adding the firefish on saturday?
 

btldreef

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsinour http:///forum/thread/380344/building-my-56-gallon-column-reef-tank/320#post_3318801
Water tests this morning.
80.1 degrees F
SG 1.0245
pH 7.9 (wasnt 7.8 and wasnt 8)
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20
So the nitrates are not going anywhere. I will be getting more water for a larger water change and do some vacuuming later this week and hope that helpls. I remeber reading somewhere that when your shrimp molt its either 1 or 2 things. Either the shrimp is stressed OR you have good water. My fire shrimp molted last night and he is happily in the same place he has always been. He is even coming out more now during the feedings. I would imagine he likes his new home.
With the ammonia not going up from adding the 2 clowns, what harm is there in adding the firefish on saturday?
I would wait a week, get the nitrates under control before adding another potential nitrate producer. You also don't have a QT setup, so I'd actually recommend waiting even longer. Rule out that these clowns have any issues, then add your next fish.
 

monsinour

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTLDreef http:///forum/thread/380344/building-my-56-gallon-column-reef-tank/320#post_3318845
I would wait a week, get the nitrates under control before adding another potential nitrate producer. You also don't have a QT setup, so I'd actually recommend waiting even longer. Rule out that these clowns have any issues, then add your next fish.
no offense to anyone reading this but I have asked several times what to do about this. I have suggested many things and got a little help, but not much. The only thing I can think of to do is to some how magically make bacteria grow that convert the nitrate into gas bubbles. argh, just frustrated, ignore me.
dont talk to me about something you dont do yourself, QT, bah. LOL
edit: water tests
80.1
1.0245
8
0
0
20
still there. got the water brewing for a bigger water change this friday. going to have the wife vacuum out while I blast the rocks to get the crap off. It seems like the nitrates didnt jump up until after I took off the filter sock. Interesting.....
edit2: So now I dont know if I should be concerned or happy. Both peppermint shrimp have molted tonight. With the fire shrimp molting last night and the pepps tonight, should I be worried about my water? Should I be happy that the shrimp appear to be growing and doing well? Are the pepps getting it on and attempting to have kids?
 

spanko

Active Member
So was this tank started around the 16th of September?
If so just a month old?
If so nitrates climbing is a natural progression and nothing to be concerned about. Time to get into a good water change ritual. You bacteria colonies are growing and doing what is necessary to help the tank to mature.
IMO a tank this young will be experiencing die off of some of the life in the rockwork as the environment it came from has changed however small the change is.
Again I would not be worried here, just get into a good maintenance schedule, monitor the basic chemistry parameters, and be ready to do a water change if you see any unusual spikes.
 

levinjac

Active Member
relax 20 nitrates isnt so bad all you can do is water changes as spanko said your tank is new it will happen 20 will not harm fish or corals you have or shrimp and I would be worried if they molt every day but a heathy shrimp molts like 1 to 2 times a month i got my my cleaner shrimp and in 4 months it was huge and kept growing
 

btldreef

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsinour http:///forum/thread/380344/building-my-56-gallon-column-reef-tank/320#post_3318935
no offense to anyone reading this but I have asked several times what to do about this. I have suggested many things and got a little help, but not much. The only thing I can think of to do is to some how magically make bacteria grow that convert the nitrate into gas bubbles. argh, just frustrated, ignore me. I've told you things that you can do that you've yet to do: add more plant life to the refugium, bigger water changes, and cleaning off the rocks. In all honestly, 20ppm isn't that bad. I was just suggesting to wait another week and try to find the source. Yes, 20ppm isn't the end of the world, but at the same time, I wouldn't go throwing another fish (nitrate producer) in this tank at the moment.
dont talk to me about something you dont do yourself, QT, bah. LOL Excuse me? I have three quarantine tanks in my house. The only time I don't quarantine is if I personally know where the fish has come from. I have only done that once - with a mandarin - and a) I knew where he came from and b) they are much more capable to fighting off ich than other fish and almost never get it. Meowzer does not qt, I do. I even QT my rock and corals and don't post pictures that I own them until I've made sure everything is ok. The only corals I don't QT is the SPS for the filefish, because he's just going to eat it anyways....
edit: water tests
80.1
1.0245
8
0
0
20
still there. got the water brewing for a bigger water change this friday. going to have the wife vacuum out while I blast the rocks to get the crap off. It seems like the nitrates didnt jump up until after I took off the filter sock. Interesting..... That may mean that you are feeding a little too much/do not have enough of a CUC. I don't run a filter sock, but I do turn off my pumps/filters for about 30mins when I feed. This gives more time for the fish to eat the food, and what is uneaten has more time to settle on the rocks and substrate for the CUC to eat. I found that when I left filters on, they got clogged up much quicker.

edit2: So now I dont know if I should be concerned or happy. Both peppermint shrimp have molted tonight. With the fire shrimp molting last night and the pepps tonight, should I be worried about my water? Should I be happy that the shrimp appear to be growing and doing well? Are the pepps getting it on and attempting to have kids? They are probably molting due to so many water changes - which can cause them stress.
 

monsinour

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsinour http:///forum/thread/380344/building-my-56-gallon-column-reef-tank/320#post_3318935
no offense to anyone reading this ........ argh, just frustrated, ignore me.
dont talk to me about something you dont do yourself, QT, bah. LOL

Seems to me some very important parts of the post were ignored.
I am aware that the tank is new. I am aware that this rise in nitrates should be expected. However, I dont want it to get any higher for fear of it getting out of control an no real way sans chemicals to get it back down if it does get out of control.
@spanko : yea the tank is about a month old. In the first post of this thread is a time line at the bottom that details just how long this tank has been setup. My water change ritual is (and tell me if its not enough or too much) has been to do a 5 gallon change once a week. I did the first water change 3 days after getting the shrimp, and the second change 3 days after getting the clowns. This equates to about a 7.5% water change for the total system volume (based on my best guesstimates : 56 gallon tank - some for rock and sand + 16 gallon sump - protien skimmer - return pump - DSB in fuge - LR rubble - 2 bags of chemipure). So far it has only been those 2 changes since the water first entered the tank. I think I read somewhere to not do a change during the cycle if the ammonia stayed at a relatively low lvl.
@levin: i know I need to relax, but with all that has happened to my family lately, its kinda hard to do so.
@BTLD : I have listened to you and value your advice. Only a moron would ignore someone with soo many tanks and soo much experience under their belt. My issue is placement for the extra macro. The fuge section is practally full of calipura and i think i see cheato growing in it. I also have some of that cactus algea growing in there as well. The drain section is "full" with the protien skimmer in there and it's pump and the return section is "full" with the 2 bags of chemipure and the return pump. Basically, my fuge area is not large enough me thinks. I will be doing the vacuuming on friday night as the water should be done brewing then and my wife will be home to assist me in the vacuuming department. I plan to do a 13 to 14 ( i think i have 15 gallons brewing) gallon change on friday. This should be close to 20% change. I fully expect to see the nitrates drop on saturday morning's test, but I also expect to see the nitrates go right back up to 20 by saturday evening.
Just so that I know I am not nutz, it is algea that takes the nitrate and converts it to a gas yes? And if there is less algea in the tank now as opposed to earlier (due to the cactus algea die off) this could be a very important factor in the extra nitrate yes? And trimming back the calipura in the fuge would actually be detrimental to the whole nitrate problem yes? And WTF are these bubbles on the algea, is it starting to go sexual and should I cut this section off?
 

spanko

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsinour http:///forum/thread/380344/building-my-56-gallon-column-reef-tank/320#post_3319037
Seems to me some very important parts of the post were ignored.
I am aware that the tank is new. I am aware that this rise in nitrates should be expected. However, I dont want it to get any higher for fear of it getting out of control an no real way sans chemicals to get it back down if it does get out of control.
@spanko : yea the tank is about a month old. In the first post of this thread is a time line at the bottom that details just how long this tank has been setup. My water change ritual is (and tell me if its not enough or too much) has been to do a 5 gallon change once a week. I did the first water change 3 days after getting the shrimp, and the second change 3 days after getting the clowns. This equates to about a 7.5% water change for the total system volume (based on my best guesstimates : 56 gallon tank - some for rock and sand + 16 gallon sump - protien skimmer - return pump - DSB in fuge - LR rubble - 2 bags of chemipure). So far it has only been those 2 changes since the water first entered the tank. I think I read somewhere to not do a change during the cycle if the ammonia stayed at a relatively low lvl. Let's just say that the sump volume is taken up (displaced) by the rock and the san in the system. That leaves about 56 gallons of water. 5 gallon change is about 9%. Not bad for a mature tank, but IMO a larger 20% per week until you see some leveling off on the nitrate production would be better.
@levin: i know I need to relax, but with all that has happened to my family lately, its kinda hard to do so.
@BTLD : I have listened to you and value your advice. Only a moron would ignore someone with soo many tanks and soo much experience under their belt. My issue is placement for the extra macro. The fuge section is practally full of calipura and i think i see cheato growing in it. I also have some of that cactus algea growing in there as well. The drain section is "full" with the protien skimmer in there and it's pump and the return section is "full" with the 2 bags of chemipure and the return pump. Basically, my fuge area is not large enough me thinks. I will be doing the vacuuming on friday night as the water should be done brewing then and my wife will be home to assist me in the vacuuming department. I plan to do a 13 to 14 ( i think i have 15 gallons brewing) gallon change on friday. This should be close to 20% change. This is good and should be kept up until the tank matures, the macro in the fuge takes over with the nutrient uptake. I fully expect to see the nitrates drop on saturday morning's test, but I also expect to see the nitrates go right back up to 20 by saturday evening.
Just so that I know I am not nutz, it is algea that takes the nitrate and converts it to a gas yes? No, uses it as food to grow. The gas given off by algae is oxygen. And if there is less algea in the tank now as opposed to earlier (due to the cactus algea die off) this could be a very important factor in the extra nitrate yes? The Halemida is not a big contributer in the uptake of nutrient, it is calcacerous and uses calcium and alkalinity to grow. And trimming back the calipura in the fuge would actually be detrimental to the whole nitrate problem yes? No. trimming will actually remove the nutrient from the system and give the algae room to grow and the ability for light and water to get through the ball.And WTF are these bubbles on the algea, is it starting to go sexual and should I cut this section off? Looks like grape Caulerpa C. racemosa

Hope that helps a little.
 

monsinour

Active Member
So trimm the algea, leave the balls even though the other calipura is flatten discs and not balls? So I have 4 types of algea in the fuge? And get rid of the Halimeda altogether as it takes valuable calcium away from the corals and other inhabitants that need it?
 

spanko

Active Member
With water changes regularly with a good salt your calcium will be replenished faster than the Halemida can use it. Yes the algae needs to be trimmed when it gets so dense light and water cannot penetrate into it, and to remove the nutrients from the system.
 

btldreef

Moderator
Sorry, I've had a crappy week/month and had just been b*tched out on another forum for something that I never said, so I was a little on edge this morning.
Spanko basically covered it all, bigger water change and sea grapes and halimeda don't pull out that much nitrate. I have caulerpa prolifera and have found this to take out nitrates quite well as well as chaeto. I prefer caulerpa, but as I've said before, there is more of a risk (going sexual).
 

monsinour

Active Member
So I did a little trimming of the calipura and removed the cheato that was entangled in it so that the cheato could get its own light on the opposite side of the fuge. I was guessing that this wont effect much as far as water parms is concerned but this will allow the cheato to grow more than where it was. The blue legged hermit that is in the fuge was crawling all over the cheato as if to say, thanks for making my trip to my home rock more difficult. All this activity in the fuge made the nassi snail in there pop out of the sand and go looking for food, the cerith thats in there came out and looked for food, that white snail (i think its a stomatella) came out looking for food, and the bristleworms that are in there stayed hidden. The one snail I cannot find is the astrea that I put in there. I am sure he was hiding under the mass of calipura. So.....
Water test this morning
80.1
SG 1.0245
pH 7.8
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20
And as I guessed, it didnt do a thing. No worries as I was expecting this. I then did the large water change. I think I ended up changing about 14 gallons or so. I did the vacuum and baster stuff myself as my wife was too tired to assist. I got alot of the crap out of the tank and accidentally knocked over the zoa. I stood them back up and they appear to be fine as they are open and flashing thier brilliant colors. I will be anticipating a drop in the nitrate in tonights test, but i certainly do not expect it to be 0 and I wouldnt be all that suprised if it stayed at 20.
I also took some pics of the critters in the tank last night and changed my avatar to one of my clowns.


Somewhere up there is a peppermint shrimp. They must like doughnuts, as they are always in that rock.

Best pic I could get of the lovely pair

 

monsinour

Active Member
water tests this evening after the water change
80 degrees F
SG 1.025
pH 8
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20
So now what? Could it be that API cannot list a color between 10 and 20? Should I run the Red Sea test just to see what it says however inaccurate it is?
edit : I forgot to mention that Larry, our climbing fighting conch, has passed.
 

monsinour

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowzer http:///forum/thread/380344/building-my-56-gallon-column-reef-tank/320#post_3319507
AWWWW....what happened to Larry? :(
Dont really know. Found him in the back of the tank with the fire shrimp hovering over the shell. He was laying normally and its not like the shrimp was picking inside the shell. I pulled him out and flipped him over and his foot is there, but no sign of eyes or snout. Since the kids are around, we put him back in towards the front of the tank in hopes that we are wrong. When the kids go to bed, and he hasnt moved, I will remove him for good and we can tell the kids that he crawled under the sand like he is supposed to do.
Jerry, the other fighting conch that didnt climb, is doing fine. He leaves marks in the sand so you always know where to look to find him. He was the bigger of the 2.
But now, what about the nitrates? The water change was done at 1 PM or so, the test was done at 10 PM or so. Logically, the nitrates should have gone down, but they are the same.
 
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