coral reefs take millions of years to grow

kablamo

kablamo

Member
Originally Posted by hagfish
The church was made by man, that man was Jesus. Here's a quote from http://www.scripturessay.com/study22.html
"In response to Peterís confession to Jesus in Matthew 16:16 that, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God". Jesus then says in Matthew 16:18, "On this rock I will build My church." To whom was this church to belong? "My" is possessive, which shows the church belongs to Jesus"
I absolutely agree that you do not have to go into a church to be able to believe. Many people become believers without having ever stepped foot into a church. You also don't have to go into a church for The Lord to hear you. But the prayers of an unbeliever will go unheard. As for the attendance of church, the following quote from http://www.scripturessay.com/ch5.html explains it beautifully.
"Christ is the head of the church, her ruler, her authority, her director. If one desires to have Christ as his head he must be in the church, the church which is his body. And he must follow the directions given by the head. If one loves the Lord, if he respects him as the head of the church, why would he want to be in anything else? How could he be in anything else Scripturally? To be in another body would be to have another head."
Tell me, what denomination was that? Did jesus start the Catholic church? oh, and are you a protestant? If so you are a heretic, sorry!
 
hagfish

hagfish

Active Member
Originally Posted by Kablamo
Tell me, what denomination was that? Did jesus start the Catholic church? oh, and are you a protestant? If so you are a heretic, sorry!
This is saying that the church was Christs idea and that he is the head of it. You are making assumptions that I am a heretic and that has no place here as you know nothing about me. I am a Christian first and a Southern Baptist second.
 
hagfish

hagfish

Active Member
Originally Posted by Kablamo
False, the famous "fruit-fly" experiments force evolved through changing the environment of some fruit flies in a laboratory caused speciation, and the new species was so radically different that they could no longer mate with the original species, we're not talking dog breeds, we are talking genetic variation here.
I'm not familiar with the fruit fly experiments. If you have a chance, could you please provide a link so I can learn about them?
Originally Posted by Kablamo
You are thinking in the wrong terms here, nothing is CREATED, creation is a human idea. Only pots and cars and watches, and guitars are created, not life forms. Life forms GROW. Here's a little allegory of my own.
Say the world is a tree.
Your average christian would consider themselves birds resting in the tree, while in truth we are all leaves, not birds.
Your allegory does not work for one simple reason. The world is not alive and a tree is. A leaf grows from a tree because it is part of the system of a tree to keep it alive. The earth is not alive and we do nothing to act as a system to keep it so. As you said WE GROW, but the earth does not.
Originally Posted by Kablamo
As far as eyes are concerned, you can feel ultraviolet radiation with your skin, there are animals with no eyes but still run and hide when a shadow passes over them. This can easily be concentrated to where this receptive skin can tell the difference between light and dark.
If a shadow passes over one animal and it runs, and not another animal, which one is safer from predators? The sitting duck or the one that knows to hide?
Now, this skin can tell where exactly the shadow is, on the left, right, front, or back.
Why could this not be separated and there not be any feeling in the center so as to more clearly differentiate between left and right, or front and back.
Now its not that difficult to imagine it building up from there, and i don't have time to explain it tonight.
AS far as cyclopses, go look up copepods, the most numerous family of organisms on the earth, i believe you know about them, they are probably all over your tank and they ALL have only ONE eye.
Evolutionists claim that one step up from copepods is shrimp, a genus that has two eyes, and most if not all arthropods evolved from copepods, and everything AFTER them could take advantage of these two eyes.
QED.
I will concede the copepod as I did not know they had only one eye. But your description of an eyeless creature still doesn't explain how an eye or eyes "grow" as you put it. And if it is as you said earlier and nature isn't trying to improve the chance of success of that creature then why would the eyeless creature begin to grow eyes in the first place. If it can "see" in the manner in which you describe and evolution says that eyes are eventually formed is it just dumb luck that the creature can now "see" better? And again, that eye is part of a system of vision. It is one part and can't function without related parts of the system. So what puts the related parts in place? More luck?
 
hagfish

hagfish

Active Member
Originally Posted by hagfish
This is saying that the church was Christs idea and that he is the head of it. You are making assumptions that I am a heretic and that has no place here as you know nothing about me. I am a Christian first and a Southern Baptist second.
I suppose that this might make me a heretic in a Catholics eyes as it is a dissent from the dogma of the Catholic church. But that is a quote from the Holy Bible and it is in the Catholic Bible as well. If it is Jesus church and he is the head of it then how does anything I said contradict that even in a Catholic world view? A Catholic would differ in that they would say that Peter is the "rock" Jesus referred to and that is used as the belief that Peter was the first Pope and was granted that position by Jesus. I do disagree with that. But that is really irrelevant in this conversation and even in Christianity itself (rather a secondary issue in Christianity).
 
hagfish

hagfish

Active Member
Originally Posted by keleighr
This is exactly why I avoid going to churches. Too Hypocritical for me.
Would you mind telling me what you think is hypocritical about church?
I go to church. That doesn't make me perfect or holy. God is perfect and holy not me. I can learn in church how to become more Christlike and therefore closer to holiness, but I will never attain holiness (sinlessness) while alive in this sinful body. What is hypocritical about that?
You may mean asking for money is hypocritical since you mention that. There is a lot to deal with on this issue really. First, if the churches you've been to are abusing the money they are taking in or are abusing people by their demands for money than I would question whether it is really a Christ led organization. There are many that appear to be, but are not. Such a church would be hypocritical, but moreso in the sense that they are saying they are following Gods will when they are actually fulfilling the desires of individuals in the church. If it is Christ led, they should still expect a tithe from the members and should still pass around the offering plate. The money should go to worthy causes and not straight into the preachers bank account or anything like that. If one is attending a church and sees that it's leaders are becoming greedy then that is something that should be discussed with said persons.
In any case, we can not attain holiness here on earth so hypocrocy is going to be part of some peoples nature. Most people have been hypocritical at some point in their lives. When Adam ate from the Tree of Knowledge he defied God's will and brought our sin nature into the world. Now we are stuck in that sin nature. And everyone is a sinner. And those who say otherwise are hypocrites themselves.
 
darth tang

darth tang

Active Member
I can't believe this is still going. It is getting far to complicated for some I see also. Let's simplify this. I will make it real easy.
Imagine there is nothing. Nothing at all.
Then suddennly a spark, or bang, or silent formation occurs in the nothing. something from nothing. Scientifically impossible, but it happenned.
That was the effect.
What is the cause?
For every effect there is a cause.....simple science.
So....ultimately you have to go to where it all started. Not how we got to where we are today. But where it all started. In that, you will find the underlieing truth (atleast my belief).
 
caomt

caomt

Member
someone explain how we can memorize things..the way we are able to remember things really tripps me out.. dont you guys think there has to be a higher form?
 
keleighr

keleighr

Active Member
The church was made by man, that man was Jesus. Here's a quote from http://www.scripturessay.com/study22.html
"In response to Peterís confession to Jesus in Matthew 16:16 that, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God". Jesus then says in Matthew 16:18, "On this rock I will build My church." To whom was this church to belong? "My" is possessive, which shows the church belongs to Jesus"
I absolutely agree that you do not have to go into a church to be able to believe. Many people become believers without having ever stepped foot into a church. You also don't have to go into a church for The Lord to hear you. But the prayers of an unbeliever will go unheard. As for the attendance of church, the following quote from http://www.scripturessay.com/ch5.html explains it beautifully.
"Christ is the head of the church, her ruler, her authority, her director. If one desires to have Christ as his head he must be in the church, the church which is his body. And he must follow the directions given by the head. If one loves the Lord, if he respects him as the head of the church, why would he want to be in anything else? How could he be in anything else Scripturally? To be in another body would be to have another head."
i know i am going to ripped apart for this one but it is my opinion.
The Bible is a book that what written by man.
Through out the years the Bible has been used to benefit whom ever reads it, in other words each person reads the bible and many get different interpatations from it.
Before the Christianity became the only religion you could practice with out being slaughtered was (just so you all know this is in the European lands) many folks worshipped the Priestesses.
They revered Mother Earth.
Uther Pendragon originally was under the protection of the Priestesses and he fought for Avalon.
Then King Arthur was born.
At first he also fought under the Pendragon flags and fought for Avalon as well.
But as a King he had to take counsel form the Chrisitans Priests. Eventually he dropped Avalon. Due to it's Pagan ways.
Celebration of life, the land and all the other things the Avalon believed was pushed to the side.
Yes this said not with an air of authority, just things i have read over the years in different books.
50 years ago the relationship I am in now was considered a sin according to the "Bible".
That God never attended for the races to mix.
BS to that.
So why has that changed now....well in some people's church's (white pointy hats come to mind here) it is still the same.
There are Church's now who do not turn ANYONE away. Gay people mainly is what I am referring to. But again the Bible says this is a sin. Yet these church's open their arms aide and love them for who they are, not what they do behind closed doors.
If the Bible is so clear on what you are supposed to be doing then WHY are there so many different religions and ways to follow the Bible's and God's message???
None of us are here to convert anyone.
No one on here is wrong.
These are just my questions and honestly no one on here can answer them because there are going to be to many different repsonses that will leave the questions still unanswered for ME not anyone else just ME.
Good luck to all of you out there,
and remember
Believe in what you believe in
 
keleighr

keleighr

Active Member
Originally Posted by hagfish
Would you mind telling me what you think is hypocritical about church?
I go to church. That doesn't make me perfect or holy. God is perfect and holy not me. I can learn in church how to become more Christlike and therefore closer to holiness, but I will never attain holiness (sinlessness) while alive in this sinful body. What is hypocritical about that?
You may mean asking for money is hypocritical since you mention that. There is a lot to deal with on this issue really. First, if the churches you've been to are abusing the money they are taking in or are abusing people by their demands for money than I would question whether it is really a Christ led organization. There are many that appear to be, but are not. Such a church would be hypocritical, but moreso in the sense that they are saying they are following Gods will when they are actually fulfilling the desires of individuals in the church. If it is Christ led, they should still expect a tithe from the members and should still pass around the offering plate. The money should go to worthy causes and not straight into the preachers bank account or anything like that. If one is attending a church and sees that it's leaders are becoming greedy then that is something that should be discussed with said persons.
In any case, we can not attain holiness here on earth so hypocrocy is going to be part of some peoples nature. Most people have been hypocritical at some point in their lives. When Adam ate from the Tree of Knowledge he defied God's will and brought our sin nature into the world. Now we are stuck in that sin nature. And everyone is a sinner. And those who say otherwise are hypocrites themselves.

The hypocritical part is that they say do not judge but they do. Being Gay
They say my life is a sin. By who's standard's?
they say my marriage is a falacy. Why? Because he and I didn't get married in their arena?
This is why I do not attend church.
I answer to myself, no one else
 
darth tang

darth tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by keleighr
The hypocritical part is that they say do not judge but they do. Being Gay
They say my life is a sin. By who's standard's?
they say my marriage is a falacy. Why? Because he and I didn't get married in their arena?
This is why I do not attend church.
I answer to myself, no one else

Actually, I disagree a bit. True christions believe ALL people are born and leave this world sinners. So if a homosexual lifestyle is perceived a sin, calling a homosexual a sinner based off of their lifestyle is not hypocritical, as all people are sinners anyway. They are not judging, just pointing out the sin. I am not defending religion, but Try looking at this from both sides and you get a greater understanding of why people view and say the things they do.
 
darth tang

darth tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by WillCon
Edgar Cayce


What does the guy that predicted california and new yorks demise and Atlantis rising from the sea have to do with this?
 
darth tang

darth tang

Active Member
As a prophet or seer the guy was viewed as a fool. I do not see how his predictions or even miracle cures have any bearing on the discussion. With exception it was believed he was contacted by demons.
 
kablamo

kablamo

Member
Originally Posted by hagfish
This is saying that the church was Christs idea and that he is the head of it. You are making assumptions that I am a heretic and that has no place here as you know nothing about me. I am a Christian first and a Southern Baptist second.
Don't misunderstand me, the remark wasn't even aimed at you. i'm saying that if christ came up with the church, he sure didn't do a very good job, because if he really was god incarnate, he sure as heck would have done a better job organizing the church and telling people EXACTLY and CLEARLY what was the true and correct version of christianity.
I will now speak in stereotypes, please don't think i mean this about ALL members of these denominations.
Here we have the catholics going about and sinning all night and confessing all day,
We have the pentacostals not letting their women wear pants, makeup, or cut their hair, also saying that if you have an evil thought and then die without having time to ask for forgiveness, you go to hell.
You have the baptists saying you go to hell for dancing, among other things: http://godhatesfags.com . I don't even have to mention how destructive this kind of hate is.
We also have the mormons, which say you all got it wrong, and they are the only right ones.
The calvinists, who think that certain people are destined to go to heaven and to hell and you can't change your destiny.
The quakers, who were much more liberal in their thinking,
You have all of these, many of which believe the others are going to hell.
And a thousand more.
Who is to be judge? You can say, let the bible be judge, but if you do that, you can legally sell your daughter into slavery, kill a girl who was raped but didn't call for help, and even sacrifice your children to god if you wanted.
It kind of makes me laugh how most christians don't even really read the bible, if they did, they just might not be christians anymore...

Anyway, what i was TRYING to say, was, the original church is the catholic church.
Before that, the early early church wasn't much of a church, but a secret underground religion held in private homes.
So which one is correct?
If nobody has it exactly right yet, don't you think it should have been more clearly outlined and defined by JC himself? Instead of, you are my church, he should have said, ok, you are my church, and i am the head, and this is EXACTLY how things need to be.... blah blah blah...."
But he didn't. So hopefully you are right and <insert rival denomination here> is wrong, so you can go to heaven.
 
kablamo

kablamo

Member
Originally Posted by keleighr
The hypocritical part is that they say do not judge but they do. Being Gay
They say my life is a sin. By who's standard's?
they say my marriage is a falacy. Why? Because he and I didn't get married in their arena?
This is why I do not attend church.
I answer to myself, no one else
Good for you keleighr,

Life is way too short to try and change something like that. My cousin is gay and i know that for him to like a girl would be just as hard as it would be for me to like a guy and there is no sense trying to waste that much energy trying to change something thats as hard to change as your natural hair color.
 
kablamo

kablamo

Member
Originally Posted by Darth Tang
Actually, I disagree a bit. True christions believe ALL people are born and leave this world sinners. So if a homosexual lifestyle is perceived a sin, calling a homosexual a sinner based off of their lifestyle is not hypocritical, as all people are sinners anyway. They are not judging, just pointing out the sin. I am not defending religion, but Try looking at this from both sides and you get a greater understanding of why people view and say the things they do.
Have you ever met a "true" christian? I believe the verse says you should know who is a true christian by whether or not they can cast out demons, pick up poisonous snakes and not be bitten, tread on scorpions, drink any kind of poison and not be harmed, and do greater miracles than even jesus did.
Give me some documentation of that happening and i might convert.
Now, psuedochristians, the ones who go everyweek because they are afraid of hell, tend to judge quite a lot. I hear comments every day about people being "guilty of the sin of homosexuality." Only a judge will pronounce someone as "guilty."
Also, most christians i know don't believe that they leave this world as sinners, "no other fount' i know, that makes me white as snow, nothing but the blood of jesus". Washed "white as snow" means no sin.
 
darth tang

darth tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by Kablamo
Have you ever met a "true" christian? I believe the verse says you should know who is a true christian by whether or not they can cast out demons, pick up poisonous snakes and not be bitten, tread on scorpions, drink any kind of poison and not be harmed, and do greater miracles than even jesus did.
Give me some documentation of that happening and i might convert.
Now, psuedochristians, the ones who go everyweek because they are afraid of hell, tend to judge quite a lot. I hear comments every day about people being "guilty of the sin of homosexuality." Only a judge will pronounce someone as "guilty."
Also, most christians i know don't believe that they leave this world as sinners, "no other fount' i know, that makes me white as snow, nothing but the blood of jesus". Washed "white as snow" means no sin.
I would like to know which scripture states that about cristians or true followers of Christ.
When they leave this world they are no longer sinners. But their last moment on this world they are a sinner until bathed in the light.
Do me a favor, if you are going to quote scripture, do not paraphrase and list the verse and book.
 
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