Death Row to Harsh? what you guys think

tangman99

Active Member
The death penalty is definitely needed IMHO. I worked a super maximum prison for 10 years and death row so I know first hand what someone on death row goes through. First off, let me say that there is a big misconception on protection in prison. Unless an inmate has court ordered mandatory protection, you can't force it upon anyone except under special circumstances. They have to request it. The ones that request it are usually --- offenders or a snitch that was identified. Asking for protective custody is almost the same as labeling yourself a snitch as that is the major population in protective custody. Everyone on protective custody is known by the general population because inmate runners work these wings to do house keeping and distribute meals. I've seen several inmates murdered in protective custody also so it is no guarantee of your protection.
Death Row is also not the end for many inmates. When you get sentenced to Death in Florida, you get an automatic appeal by law. Many will get resentenced to natural life during the long process of appeals which takes years. For most, it is always in the back of their mind, but the timeframes are so long, it does not really set in until you get your first death warrant signed and go to deathwatch where you are isolated, under 24 hour individual observation and on suicide prevention for the week prior to your execution.
Murders really don't stalk out and kill others either. Murders in prison are usually heat of the moment or retaliatory. Many are gang related while others are as meaningless as a gambling debt where someone owed a pack of cigarettes. It's not as common as you think.
It definitely does cost more to house someone on death row than life but you have to understand the reason. The physical costs are different due to individual housing and security vs open population (most murders and lifers are in open population after an initial period of supervision) but this is insignificant. The real cost is in legal appeals. As I mentioned, they are automatic in capital cases involving the death penalty and take years to complete. Most inmates serving a life sentence have to persue the appeals process on their own. Also, many inmates doing life for murder also accepted a plea bargain to get the death penalty off the table. These inmates plead guilty and don't get an appeal of the sentence.
Florida has since went to lethal injection since I left the system in 1993. However, no one ever survived the electric chair while it was in use. There were some questionable events that did take place, but the exection itself was always successful for lack of a better term. Is is painless? Who knows. I never witnessed or wanted to witness the execution. My job ended with preparation and carrying out the final stages of death watch. I don't care what these people did, you could not help but get to know them on a personal basis over the years you spent with them and it was always a strange and sometime sad feeling when you watched them being escorted out the door to the death chamber knowing that they were on their way to die. It's one of those things that you have to experience for yourself to understand it.
 
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jcrim

Guest
Originally Posted by TangMan99
For most, it is always in the back of their mind, but the timeframes are so long, it does not really set in until you get your first death warrant signed and go to deathwatch where you are isolated, under 24 hour individual observation and on suicide prevention for the week prior to your execution.
Funny that these people would be on suicide watch... who cares if they save the state the effort?
 

fish_feed6

Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
If the judicial system was perfect and mistakes were never made I’d have no problem with the death penalty. However, innocent people have been executed and will continue to be executed and because of that, the death penalty needs to go. Look at OJ, he killed two people and was found innocent because he could afford a stellar defense team. Poor people don’t have the same luxury and are often represented by over worked DA’s and run the risk of being found guilty for something they didn’t do.
not trying to be racist, and tell me if im wrong. but i heard that the jury was black and thought that OJ was just another black man being put wrongfully in jail.
Originally Posted by Speg

If my brother/sister/mother/dad/girlfriend was on deathrow and they did kill someone, or ---- someone, or touch a kid or whatever.. I would feel no pitty on them.
If they are innocent then thats not the death penaltys fault.. blame the persons lawyer for sucking and the accusers lawyer for being darn good. When it all comes down to it.. thats all really matters.. how good your lawyer is.
speg i can guarntee that you would belive ur relative if they said they didnt do it. i no i would. ever seen that show prison break? yea crimes can be staged it happens all the time.
and back on topic...two wrongs dont make a right. if someone gets murdered and you turn around and kill him back are you no better than the murderer himself?
i personally stay outta trouble cause jail scares me....dont drop the soap
 

steelgluer

Member
Originally Posted by caomt
from watching the news.. i think it is kinda harsh.. an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.. and who are they to say who lives and who dies?
They are there for a reason, Not for stealing candy. And if you ask me they are there too LONG. If you could only ask the adults/children they killed/torchered if there too long what do you thionk they would say?
 

puffer24/7

Active Member
Originally Posted by puffer24/7
the death penalty is a must but if i had my way i would make the

[hr]
work the rest of their lives(chain gangs) also for the real bad ones i would put them in an orange jump suit and throw them in the everglades and hand out permits for people to kill them, the government and state would make a crap load if they sold the permits and rid the streets of danger, just my 2 cents though
tell me no one disagrees with this, please
 

space_geek

Active Member
Originally Posted by kimC
Hanging's ok w/me. If the electic chair doesn't work the first time... throw the switch again. Why should someone die so easily when their victim did not? The victim usually doesn't have a choice.
I see where you are coming from. However, I disagree. Anyone who could possibly think that killing someone for killing another is going to solve anything. I have watched MANY news reports on TV and NONE of those people have been satisfied with that man/women being dead. I am a heavy christian, and I feel that if you are supporting for another person to die, that that is a sin. Like I have stated before, I am supportive on the death penalty-most of the time-but I think that the inmate should only be able to be killed by lethal injection. Just to energize this thread a bit.....how many of you think Tookie Williams should have been granted clemency?
 

darth tang

Active Member
I myself support the death penalty. But not for your average death. Serial killers, violent killings (such as raped or totured to death) and multiple homicides. The truly violent crimes carried out by our vilest people.
I am surprised I have not heard this argument against it yet, here. The one I always hear is, it doesn't deter people from killing. My answer is neither does prison. Punishments, under law, are just that. A punishment. They are not meant to deter anyone from committing a crime. They are there as punishments and the death penalty is the ultimate punishment for the ultimate crime. The criminal receives appeal after appeal, before the punishment of death is handed out. Our court system ensures the suspected murderer is given EVERY opportunity (more so than the average criminal) to be innocent untill proven guilty.
Someone stated we have executed innocent people before. Tell me of one person executed innocently in the last 50 years. I have never seen any proof of this.
 

darth tang

Active Member
Tookie should NOT have been granted clemency. He was convicted, and not once showed remorse to the families he caused pain to. Also, a lot of people were talking about he has helped keep kids out of gangs and his books should be reason to save him. I look at it a different way, if the guy truly cared about teaching kids lessons of gang life, then his execution would be the ultimate message of where the gang life may lead you. Besides, he did commit a crime, a very violent crime. It wasn't like he killed just one person.
He was given the nobel peace prize, his death does more to further peace than his life did.......peace for the victims' families and it sends a message to gang members. If he and his followers are truly trying to help keep kids out of gangs, than his life is the ultimate example of why NOT to join them and in the end sends just as powerful a message as anything he wrote.
 
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jcrim

Guest
Personally, I would have no problem with the state bringing back public hangings. I don't say this for dramatic effect... maybe there would be some deterrent value there.
 

tangman99

Active Member
I'm sure somewhere along the way, someone that was innocent has been executed. Innocent people do get sentenced to death. One case that I am familiar with personally because I knew the inmate for several years but he was on death row before my time.
James Richardson was sentenced to death in 1968 for poisoning his 7 children. He maintained his innocence. He had his death warrant signed and came within days of being executed but won a stay of execution. His sentence was commuted to life along with everyone on death row in 1972 when the supreme count cast out the death penalty and was reinstated in 1976.
Robinson spent the next 17 years serving a natural life sentence until 1989 when he was released. A death bed confession determined that Robinsons babysitter had poisoned his children and she was a personal friend of the Sheriff in Jacksonville, Florida at the time who covered up the death and helped frame Robinson for his childrens death. Janet Reno reviewed the statements and signed for his release. This was not a technical glitch. It was a clear case of framing an individual that was investigated and proven to be true.
The appeals process was not as long back then as they are today and the only reason that Richardson is still alive is because the death penalty was abolished. Richardson was freed after spending 21 years in prison for a crime he did not commit and came within days of being executed. Could you imagine finding out that seven of your children had been murdered, then you get charged with killing them and end up on death row for it, come within days of going to the chair and then spending 21 years in prison before someone proved you were framed?
 

puffer24/7

Active Member
Originally Posted by jcrim
Personally, I would have no problem with the state bringing back public hangings. I don't say this for dramatic effect... maybe there would be some deterrent value there.
i agree
 

darth tang

Active Member
Good thing he wasn't executed. We have wrongfully imprisoned people before though. Yet I do not hear people saying we shouldn't have a prison system which could essentially take an entire lifetime away from someone. Here is something I found regarding executing innocent people.
" It is not at all uncommon for death penalty opponents to make false claims about innocents executed. As of 1/1/03, The National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty (NCADP) claims that "Twenty three (23) innocent people have been mistakenly executed (in the US) this (the 20th) century." (32) This is a common false claim, even though the authors of that 1987 study, in response to a deconstruction of their work, stated, in 1988, that "We agree with our critics that we have not proved these (23) executed defendants to be innocent; we never claimed that we had." (33). The NCADP is well aware of this, yet it doesn't stop their deception.
Barry Scheck, cofounder of the Innocence Project and featured speaker at the National Conference on Wrongful Convictions and the Death Penalty (11/13-15/98), stated that he had no proof of an innocent executed (in the US since 1976) (34).
Not even the nation's leading, biased source for anti death penalty information, the DPIC, says there is proof of an innocent executed. They list 5 "doubt" cases (35): Gary Graham, Joseph O'Dell, Roger Keith Coleman, Leo Jones and David Spence. A review shows how deceptive the DPIC case descriptions are (36) and how lacking any proof of innocence is.
The Texas case of Lionel Herrera, like others, nationally, has been labeled, by many death penalty opponents, as an innocent executed. I believe that Herrera, once upon a time, was also included in a previous incarnation of the DPIC list. A comment from Supreme Court Justice O'Connor. "[T]he proper disposition of this case is neither difficult nor troubling . . . The record overwhelmingly demonstrates that petitioner [Herrera] deliberately shot and killed Officers Rucker and Carrisalez the night of September 29, 1981; petitioner's new evidence is bereft of credibility. Indeed, despite its stinging criticism of the Court's decision, not even the dissent expresses a belief that petitioner might possibly be actually innocent." Herrera v. Collins, 506 US 390, 421(1993) (O'Connor, J., concurring)
Of all the world's social and governmental institutions, that do put innocents at risk, I am aware of only one, the US death penalty, that has no proof of an innocent killed since 1900. Can you name another?"
 

fishzen

Member
I do not agree with the death penalty, I however think that a person that commits a serious crime should be held accountable; therefore here goes my solution… (I am going to get slammed by this but what the heck)…have pharmaceutical companies give them diseases and then work a medicine on them to fix them up. No more testing on animals and the criminal is serving the people by testing a cure on them. I know it may be cruel and unusual punishment but I bet you more than one would rather live with a disease than die.
 

sparkles12

New Member
I personally don't agree with the death penalty for two reasons a) who the hell is the government to decide who lives and dies? and b) death is probably the easy way out. If people commit serious violent crimes like murder and ---- wouldn't it be far worse punishment to have to sit in a tiny windowless jail cell alone for the rest of your life?
 

puffer24/7

Active Member
Originally Posted by Sparkles12
I personally don't agree with the death penalty for two reasons a) who the hell is the government to decide who lives and dies? and b) death is probably the easy way out. If people commit serious violent crimes like murder and ---- wouldn't it be far worse punishment to have to sit in a tiny windowless jail cell alone for the rest of your life?
but that is not normally the case, and i dont want my mom and dad to waste their tax dollars on scum, its just better to get rid of them, just my 2 cents
 

cartman101

Active Member
Originally Posted by Sparkles12
I If people commit serious violent crimes like murder and ---- wouldn't it be far worse punishment to have to sit in a tiny windowless jail cell alone for the rest of your life?
Yea but i would rather be dead then be bored like that! Its just a big waste of life, wouldn't you want to be dead?
 

puffer24/7

Active Member
but i feel that we as americans should not waste our tax dollars on these types of people,plus death row takes to long as it is, but there are some states like florida who get people on death row killed pretty quick unlike california, also texas has a speedy process to, just my 2 cents
 

darth tang

Active Member
I disagree. Letting them live gives them hope. It gives them what they took away from someone else. Besides....how many times a year have you heard of inmates breaking out? How many times are people parolled early, that shouldn't be? How many people get time off for good behavior....what is that? Good behavior...you are in prison....you should be good.
 

puffer24/7

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darth Tang
I disagree. Letting them live gives them hope. It gives them what they took away from someone else. Besides....how many times a year have you heard of inmates breaking out? How many times are people parolled early, that shouldn't be? How many people get time off for good behavior....what is that? Good behavior...you are in prison....you should be good.
give them hope, so ur telling me that a man who killed say three of your children should have hope left, just my opinion though
 
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