Death Row to Harsh? what you guys think

avbryce1

Member
A death penalty fact: since 1976 when the death penalty was reinstated there has been 5 cases of state sanctioned executions that were not carried out by the typical 3 means of execution gas chamber, lethal injection, and electric chair.
The first execution after the death penalty was reinstated was on 1/17/1977 the state of Utah executed Gary Mark Gilmore by Firing Squad. And in 1996 Utah decided to use the good ole firing squad again on John Albert Taylor.
Also the state of Washington has hung 2 people one in 1993 and one in 1994, and in 1996 Delaware hung someone.
 

nw2sltfsh

Member
Originally Posted by Sparkles12
Cartman~ exactly like I said. It would be worse to sit in a jail cell forever. Am I right or am I right?

I didnt want to chime in on this thread mainly because it is hitting far to close to home for me But here are my thoughts....
On September 2nd My step sister (41) and her three kids (2,5, and 11) were killed by an arsonist - this person turned themselves in and admitted to setting the fire then having a beer and taking a nap before realizing that what he did was wrong and by the time he chose to go back and help, it was too late
So my family is ow dealing with the trial, because it is murder the choice of punishment is really not up to the victims family, it is up to the Commonwealth since it is considered a crime against the commonwealth. We were asked our opinion on punishment, and actually we would perfer that he rot in prison then having to relive this whole thing again when the time to execute actually comes up
We know ultimaltley it is not our choice, and the DA will do what is in the best interest of the state but now we just wait to hear what the sentencing is prior to the official start of the trial.
I thought I agreed with the Death Penalty = that was until you put your families emotions in the middle and try to think about looking into that sick

[hr]
eyes again 3,5 or 10 years from now -- I say throw away the key and let him die in jail
Sorry for the rant ....
 

caomt

Member
Originally Posted by Darth Tang
Good thing he wasn't executed. We have wrongfully imprisoned people before though. Yet I do not hear people saying we shouldn't have a prison system which could essentially take an entire lifetime away from someone. Here is something I found regarding executing innocent people.
" It is not at all uncommon for death penalty opponents to make false claims about innocents executed. As of 1/1/03, The National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty (NCADP) claims that "Twenty three (23) innocent people have been mistakenly executed (in the US) this (the 20th) century." (32) This is a common false claim, even though the authors of that 1987 study, in response to a deconstruction of their work, stated, in 1988, that "We agree with our critics that we have not proved these (23) executed defendants to be innocent; we never claimed that we had." (33). The NCADP is well aware of this, yet it doesn't stop their deception.
Barry Scheck, cofounder of the Innocence Project and featured speaker at the National Conference on Wrongful Convictions and the Death Penalty (11/13-15/98), stated that he had no proof of an innocent executed (in the US since 1976) (34).
Not even the nation's leading, biased source for anti death penalty information, the DPIC, says there is proof of an innocent executed. They list 5 "doubt" cases (35): Gary Graham, Joseph O'Dell, Roger Keith Coleman, Leo Jones and David Spence. A review shows how deceptive the DPIC case descriptions are (36) and how lacking any proof of innocence is.
The Texas case of Lionel Herrera, like others, nationally, has been labeled, by many death penalty opponents, as an innocent executed. I believe that Herrera, once upon a time, was also included in a previous incarnation of the DPIC list. A comment from Supreme Court Justice O'Connor. "[T]he proper disposition of this case is neither difficult nor troubling . . . The record overwhelmingly demonstrates that petitioner [Herrera] deliberately shot and killed Officers Rucker and Carrisalez the night of September 29, 1981; petitioner's new evidence is bereft of credibility. Indeed, despite its stinging criticism of the Court's decision, not even the dissent expresses a belief that petitioner might possibly be actually innocent." Herrera v. Collins, 506 US 390, 421(1993) (O'Connor, J., concurring)
Of all the world's social and governmental institutions, that do put innocents at risk, I am aware of only one, the US death penalty, that has no proof of an innocent killed since 1900. Can you name another?"

darth did you know they get paid? up to 10 years i fergot how much a year but they do get paid if they are found innocent and released
 

caomt

Member
Originally Posted by puffer24/7
but that is not normally the case, and i dont want my mom and dad to waste their tax dollars on scum, its just better to get rid of them, just my 2 cents

cost 2.2+ mil to execute someone 800 thousand dollars per 40 years they live in jail
 

caomt

Member
Originally Posted by puffer24/7
give them hope, so ur telling me that a man who killed say three of your children should have hope left, just my opinion though

you guys have to think. did he know there was 3 children in there? or did he think it was an empty house.. his intentions
 

puffer24/7

Active Member
iam not going to comment on this anymore so u guys have fun, i have expressed my opinion and iam fine with ur opinion as well but feel it is time to leave this thread alone
 

nw2sltfsh

Member
Originally Posted by caomt
you guys have to think. did he know there was 3 children in there? or did he think it was an empty house.. his intentions
In the case I spoke of He knew my step sister -- had a drink with her ealier that night -- and knew she had kids and the fire was set at 3 AM
So I would say yes he knew there were kids in the house - But I would perfer he rot in jail since PA has the Life means Life rule - there is no good behavior since you are expected to behave
 

tangman99

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darth Tang
I disagree. Letting them live gives them hope. It gives them what they took away from someone else. Besides....how many times a year have you heard of inmates breaking out? How many times are people parolled early, that shouldn't be? How many people get time off for good behavior....what is that? Good behavior...you are in prison....you should be good.
Absolutely. Why do you think most of the people on death row are fighting to get off death row? Even the ones that admit they are guilty claim that there were extenuating circumstances and they should have received life and are fighting to have their sentences commuted to a life sentence. I only knew a very few who wanted to die for what they did and actually fought the courts to deny all their appeals so they could clear the way to get their death warrant signed.
Their is also a huge differnce in living on death row and serving a life sentence. Death row spends 23 1/2 hour a day in a cell and you only come out with black boxed handcuffs and leg irons. If you are serving life, unless you are management problem, you get to live in open population which could be a cell or even an open dormatory. You work a regular job outside your cell or dorm during the day just like you would if you were outside. Most would work in the kitchen or laundry. Life is confined within a fenced area, but you get up, eat breakfast in a chow hall, go to work, have lunch, play sports and lift weights, have dinner, watch movies and play cards at night and sleep in a bunk much like the military.
And Darth, I agree with you completely and I am very familiar with groups like you mentioned. I don't know of any case where someone innocent was executed, but stastically it has probably happened and no one knows about. Don't misunderstand me, as I stated I am very much pro death penalty. I'm not sure it is a deterent, but it is a just ending to some of the wrongs that have been done. There were some on death row that I felt had no right to be there. The only reason they were there was because they turned down a plea to accept life and asked for a jury trial. Not everyone on death row is a serial killer. Some are there for killing other inmates while they were in prison. Not that this is acceptable, but when someone kidnaps a child, rapes and murders them and then get life in prison because they accepted a plea and pled guilty in court to get life, it doesn't always add up. There are very few inmates on death row that pled guilty. Nearly all of them had jury trials and many were offered pleas and refused.
Also, a life sentence in Florida is exactly that. Florida did away with parole for all crimes committed after October 1, 1983. There are still people that are getting paroled from life sentences that committed the crime before this date, but no one after this date that gets life can ever be released unless they win an appeal or are resentences to a set number of years. Also, any death row sentence commuted to natural life can never be paroled regardless of when the crime was committed. It is a natural life sentence.
 

reefraff

Active Member
If the ACLU would quit worrying more about the right of criminals than victims perhaps jail would be a deterent. I mean DAMN, they are fighting a case right now where a jail is taking away an inmate's playboys as a punishment.
All abled bodied people in jail should be put to hard labor 7 days a week. Make it a living hell. You wouldn't have so many people willing to go back.
 

bang guy

Moderator
Originally Posted by caomt
cost 2.2+ mil to execute someone 800 thousand dollars per 40 years they live in jail
It always amuses me when someone compares the cost of execution with the cost of keeping the average prisoner in a minimum security prison.
 

darth tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
It always amuses me when someone compares the cost of execution with the cost of keeping the average prisoner in a minimum security prison.
I love when Bang Guy makes these types of comments. Actually the cost for an inmate in maximum security prison in the cheapest state is over 1 million dollars for a 40 year stay. That does not factor in upkeep for the building and facilities. That is just the inmate cost for food, security, electrical, gas, phone, and medical. Factor in repair costs, upkeep/maintenance, "transportation for work programs", and numerous other things and the cost is much higher. I just read where a prison housing 500 beds appropriated 40 million dollars for upkeep services on the building and expansions in one year.
 

darth tang

Active Member
Tang man. It is nice getting a percpective on prisons from someone on the inside. From the way you describe it, death row itself is no cake walk when compared to those that get life sentences. Now if we treated all life sentence people the way we treat the death row one's I would be fine withou a death penalty......but I wonder how much THAT would cost.
 
J

jdragunas

Guest
who are we to decide who should live or die? i believe it is no human's right to take another life... it is a justified form of murder that the government is responsible for... JMO
 

darth tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by jdragunas
who are we to decide who should live or die? i believe it is no human's right to take another life... it is a justified form of murder that the government is responsible for... JMO

Using that outlook though, who are we to decide a cow is food and a dog is a pet? Who are we to decide what is a punishable crime and what is not? Who are we to decide how long someone should be imprisoned for their crimes? Who are we to decide what people should get paid what salary. Who are we to decide................
Get it? That phrase can be used for everything...........and using it, solves nothing but to cause confusion....IMO.
 

space_geek

Active Member
What kind of excuse it that Darth? People eat dog in Asian countries, people just choose not to here! Its that simple...its just choosing! But deciding on which animal to eat, is a LOT different than deciding who should be put to death and who shouldnt be.
BTW, well put Jenn!
 
J

jdragunas

Guest
because beasts were put here in the first place to 1) feed us and 2) keep us company.
We are to decide who gets punished for what crimes because that keeps the bad guys away from the innocent, but we do not have the right to take another's life! The judge gets to decide how long someone goes to prison, because that's the length of time that particular judge believes it will take for that person to truly be remorseful of their actions, and "cured" from doing it again. We don't get to decide what people get paid what salary, our employers do, and they have that right because they're the ones who hired us. We decide all that stuff because it's our right.
As for your theory, if the government can decide whether or not they should be able to take a murder or rapist's life, then why can't normal citizens decide when they can take someone else's life? And therefore why are they punished for doing so?
 

darth tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by Space_Geek
What kind of excuse it that Darth? People eat dog in Asian countries, people just choose not to here! Its that simple...its just choosing! But deciding on which animal to eat, is a LOT different than deciding who should be put to death and who shouldnt be.
BTW, well put Jenn!
You missed my other points about questioning, obviously. The whole point is this, We are the only species capable of logically handing out a punishment for bad behavior. If we start questioning if we have the right to hand out one type of punishment...then you have to start questioning if we actually have the right to do any form of punishment or for that matter action.
 
J

jdragunas

Guest
we do, because the bible doesn't say "thou shalt not punish criminals for their wrongdoings", however it does say "thou shalt not kill"...
 

darth tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by jdragunas
because beasts were put here in the first place to 1) feed us and 2) keep us company.
We are to decide who gets punished for what crimes because that keeps the bad guys away from the innocent, but we do not have the right to take another's life! The judge gets to decide how long someone goes to prison, because that's the length of time that particular judge believes it will take for that person to truly be remorseful of their actions, and "cured" from doing it again. We don't get to decide what people get paid what salary, our employers do, and they have that right because they're the ones who hired us. We decide all that stuff because it's our right.
As for your theory, if the government can decide whether or not they should be able to take a murder or rapist's life, then why can't normal citizens decide when they can take someone else's life? And therefore why are they punished for doing so?
Jen, let me try a different approach.
Our government right now has a BOUNTY for Bin Laden to be found, alive or dead. should we not be doing this?
If a person kills multiple people.....is a life sentence justified. multiple people have been killed, is this one persons incarceration for life equal to the number of lives the person took. Is the punishment equal to the crime?
 

darth tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by jdragunas
we do, because the bible doesn't say "thou shalt not punish criminals for their wrongdoings", however it does say "thou shalt not kill"...
It also says "an eye for an eye"...............
 
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